Barbell Training + Met-con

[JLascek]

There have been inquiries about how to program barbell training with metabolic conditioning. I wrote a little article to outline the successful program I use at CrossFit Wichita Falls.

If it makes you feel better about trying it out, I had a 195 pound guy deadlift 420x5 not too long ago. If he listens, he'll be doing much more than that after eating more food.

Correction, he did 425x5 last Friday.

You can find the sticky post on
http://crossfitwichitafalls.com

Or go straight to the .pdf:
http://crossfitwichitafalls.com/Content/CFWF_Program.pdf

Thoughts, comments, and observations are welcome.

[Peter Andersen]

Hi Justin,

I've been waiting for the details on this ever since you stopped posting updates to the CFWF site.

Looks good.

I was wondering, what was it about MEBB/CFSB/Gant's programs that you felt needed improving upon with this program? Was it the way that those programs structured recovery, or something else?

Cheers

[italiangumbi]

Would it be safe to assume that Saturday and Sunday are off days/skill days like Wednesday?

[mlentzner]

Justin,

Do you expect to be able to send athletes to the Crossfit games and have them be competitive? Of course you may not consider that competition to be a good measure of GPP. If not, then how would you measure it?

Regards,

Matt

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Justin,

Once the novice stage has ended (you cannot add more weight each time you lift and have done more than 2 resets), would a viable intermediate approach be to keep the same occurrences of the lifts and alternate between 5x5 and determine a max with 5 reps or less?

Well, 5x5 and 1-5 RM for the presses and squats, maybe pullups too. for cleans 8x3 and 1-3 rm and 3x5 and 1-5 rm for the deadlift.

[jacob cloud]

Excellent article. I really like this program. Simple and logical. Will there be a version (possibly with an appropriate diet) on your "other" site (http://70sbig.com) for those of us looking to grow out our staches, sideburns, and willing to sport tall socks? :)
On a more serious note, how would you program for a more intermediate athlete that has milked their linear progression on, say, squats? How about some sample WODs for the metcons? Great stuff, thanks for posting it.

[Rain]

What about the Saturday and Sunday, nothing is stated in the proposed program? Rest?

[midohu]

The program looks strangely similar to the 4-day split routine on page 190 of PP only put within Monday to Friday instead of Monday to Saturday.

CFWF: MON Squats Presses, TUE Pulls Metcon, THU Squats Presses, FRI Pulls Metcon.

PP 4-day split: MON Squats Presses, WED Pulls, FRI Squats Presses, SAT Pulls.

It's a nice program: as simple as it can be made, which is difficult to do.

[JLascek]

Hi Justin,

I've been waiting for the details on this ever since you stopped posting updates to the CFWF site.

Looks good.

I was wondering, what was it about MEBB/CFSB/Gant's programs that you felt needed improving upon with this program? Was it the way that those programs structured recovery, or something else?

Cheers

The programs you listed are good in that they make the observation that additional strength is necessary for met-con or performance in general. However, those three programs are all different; I don't think you can equate them.

Nevertheless, I think the biggest problem with those programs is analogous to what Rip says about strength training: there are many ways that are right, but some ways are more right than others.

My chief issue is that there isn't enough stress to induce the recovery and subsequent adaptation in the programs you listed. The frequency of strength training in general is lower than where it could be, and the amount of stress is low to produce the adaptation.

If a person can perform both A and B workouts in a week instead of just one, and they still adapt (i.e. get stronger), wouldn't this be more beneficial? If you understand how important strength is, then this isn't really debatable.

So I guess I just wanted to make people stronger faster than not. And if it helps, I did a slower way at first (squatting, pressing, and deadlifting only once a week). The current way is better.


Would it be safe to assume that Saturday and Sunday are off days/skill days like Wednesday?

It would be safe to assume that these are rest days. Maybe some skill on Saturday, but nothing more than a few minutes of POSE running drills.

The recovery of strength is of the utmost importance since it will make all the other shit better anyway.

[JLascek]

Justin,

Do you expect to be able to send athletes to the Crossfit games and have them be competitive? Of course you may not consider that competition to be a good measure of GPP. If not, then how would you measure it?

Regards,

Matt

To be honest Matt, I don't care about sending anybody to the CrossFit games. But if that became a trainee's goal, I wouldn't change anything in their training unless I deemed it necessary as the competition neared.

This year's games seemed to eliminate anyone who had good strength at a relatively higher bodyweight with the 7k trail run. Whether this was the goal or not, I don't know.

If I had to pick a traditional sport that was a good measure of GPP, I'd probably say the decathlon since it covers an array of athletic parameters. Other than that, I don't know any sports that would be a good test for GPP since a sport is typically a specific endeavor. As for competitions, I'd have to think for a bit. Start a new thread if Rip deems it relevant, because it sorta leaves the scope of this one.

[JLascek]

Justin,

Once the novice stage has ended (you cannot add more weight each time you lift and have done more than 2 resets), would a viable intermediate approach be to keep the same occurrences of the lifts and alternate between 5x5 and determine a max with 5 reps or less?

Well, 5x5 and 1-5 RM for the presses and squats, maybe pullups too. for cleans 8x3 and 1-3 rm and 3x5 and 1-5 rm for the deadlift.

Jamie, are you essentially asking me that when they plateau on the strength portion of this, would I implement something like the Texas method?

If that is what you're asking me, then yes, that is what I have considered. I'm probably going to have to implement this fairly soon, so I'll let everyone now how it goes.

As for the second portion of your post, you don't increase the number of sets for the clean on the Texas method, so it wouldn't go to 8 sets. You also would NEVER do more than one work set of deadlifts, regardless of the program.

[JLascek]

Excellent article. I really like this program. Simple and logical. Will there be a version (possibly with an appropriate diet) on your "other" site (http://70sbig.com) for those of us looking to grow out our staches, sideburns, and willing to sport tall socks? :)
On a more serious note, how would you program for a more intermediate athlete that has milked their linear progression on, say, squats? How about some sample WODs for the metcons? Great stuff, thanks for posting it.

Hey Jacob. I won't be posting the CFWF Program on http://70sbig.com because it isn't conducive to being 70s Big. The novice linear progression and subsequent programs outlined in Practical Programming would be. But, I sure do like your enthusiasm.

I'd probably take them to something that resembles the Texas Method without the light day in the middle. I'll be experimenting with this soon, so I'll let you know how it goes.

[JLascek]

The program looks strangely similar to the 4-day split routine on page 190 of PP only put within Monday to Friday instead of Monday to Saturday.

CFWF: MON Squats Presses, TUE Pulls Metcon, THU Squats Presses, FRI Pulls Metcon.

PP 4-day split: MON Squats Presses, WED Pulls, FRI Squats Presses, SAT Pulls.

It's a nice program: as simple as it can be made, which is difficult to do.

Actually, your referenced program from PP wasn't my inspiration. It was the novice linear progression, since most of the people doing this are novices in strength (especially if all they've done is CrossFit).

The program is quite simple. However, programming the met-cons is a task, and I'll get into that soon, because people don't really do a good job of this.

[LaHabra]

I'm very interested in switching up from starting strength to this program because of the decrease in total time in the gym and inclusion of metcons to shut up some of my crossfit buddies. You mentioned that you were going to describe some ways to program useful metcons, what are they? I'm assuming you exclude pressing exercises and those that require too much pulling but I'm not qualified to trust my own assumptions.

I'm also interested to see what coach Rip thinks about this program. You miss 4 squat workouts and 2 deadlift,power clean,bench,press workouts per month but are increasing other areas of your fitness while still adding strength.

Would I be better served finishing up my novice progression outlined in BBT and switching up to something like this when I'm ready for the Texas Method type training? Or switch up to this immediately and finish my novice progression while also keeping up with my metcons.

Being completely ignorant was much easier than finding out I didn't know shit.

[josephjung]

Do you guys follow the crossfit standard warmups on this program?

[jgrube]

Great looking routine. I've been looking for a proven lifting routine that i can use during my basketball season.

[JLascek]

I'm very interested in switching up from starting strength to this program because of the decrease in total time in the gym and inclusion of metcons to shut up some of my crossfit buddies. You mentioned that you were going to describe some ways to program useful metcons, what are they? I'm assuming you exclude pressing exercises and those that require too much pulling but I'm not qualified to trust my own assumptions.

I'm also interested to see what coach Rip thinks about this program. You miss 4 squat workouts and 2 deadlift,power clean,bench,press workouts per month but are increasing other areas of your fitness while still adding strength.

Would I be better served finishing up my novice progression outlined in BBT and switching up to something like this when I'm ready for the Texas Method type training? Or switch up to this immediately and finish my novice progression while also keeping up with my metcons.

Being completely ignorant was much easier than finding out I didn't know shit.

1. I hope you really aren't just switching the program because your friends think you should.

2. Programming met-cons is a (near) future article.

3. Yes, you add strength, albeit slower.

4. Would I be better served finishing up my novice progression outlined in BBT and switching up to something like this when I'm ready for the Texas Method type training? Or switch up to this immediately and finish my novice progression while also keeping up with my metcons.

I can't answer this for you, mainly because you haven't shared any goals you might have. Only you can prevent forest fires.

[KSC]

As for the second portion of your post, you don't increase the number of sets for the clean on the Texas method, so it wouldn't go to 8 sets. You also would NEVER do more than one work set of deadlifts, regardless of the program.

I would slightly disagree about the use of sets across for deadlifts regardless of the program. In the instance you guys are talking about where strength work is coupled with lots of metcon, then I would say that you are right. In almost all other programs including those of a novice or intermediate I would never program deadlifts for sets across either.

I do think however that sets across for an advanced trainee can be used for very short blocks of time in order to force the body to over reach so that a more pronounced supercompensation effect can occur down the line.

I will go so far as to say that once my DL got to about 455 lbs, the ONLY thing that got it moving was short blocks of training where deads were done for sets across. In fact, my biggest DLing gains ever, came after hitting the deadlift for 5x5 for 4 weeks. 14 days later I PR'd the lift at 500 lbs, up from 455. I only put about 25 lbs on my DL since then hitting a 525 pull back in January of this year after experiemtation with lots of other training methods that didn't work.

I am currently in the finishing stages of a program that had me DLing for 6 sets across for 4 weeks at the beginning of the training cycle. By my fourth week I was DLing 80% 1rm for 6 x 6. Just last week, I pulled a very very easy triple with 490 and feel like I am on track to break my old PR's by the end of this training cycle.

[msingh]

is this program appropriate for maintaining strength while reducing bodyfat?

[nisora33]

Justin, will this program help my erectile dysfunction? Also, my uncle lost his job about a month ago: will this program help him get his job back?

I'm thinking of adding sommersaults and pinkie toe curls to the squat days, but I'm worried that it might effect recovery. Thoughts?

[JLascek]

I would slightly disagree about the use of sets across for deadlifts regardless of the program. In the instance you guys are talking about where strength work is coupled with lots of metcon, then I would say that you are right. In almost all other programs including those of a novice or intermediate I would never program deadlifts for sets across either.

I do think however that sets across for an advanced trainee can be used for very short blocks of time in order to force the body to over reach so that a more pronounced supercompensation effect can occur down the line.

I will go so far as to say that once my DL got to about 455 lbs, the ONLY thing that got it moving was short blocks of training where deads were done for sets across. In fact, my biggest DLing gains ever, came after hitting the deadlift for 5x5 for 4 weeks. 14 days later I PR'd the lift at 500 lbs, up from 455. I only put about 25 lbs on my DL since then hitting a 525 pull back in January of this year after experiemtation with lots of other training methods that didn't work.

I am currently in the finishing stages of a program that had me DLing for 6 sets across for 4 weeks at the beginning of the training cycle. By my fourth week I was DLing 80% 1rm for 6 x 6. Just last week, I pulled a very very easy triple with 490 and feel like I am on track to break my old PR's by the end of this training cycle.

Excellent point KSC. I am inexperienced training with advanced level lifters and this distinction is relevant and should be made clear.


Do you guys follow the crossfit standard warmups on this program?

I assume you mean the calisthenic warm-up that CrossFit advocates? I don't use this style of warming up and don't deem it necessary.

Practical Programming (the 2nd edition just came out) gives a good explanation as to why. Essentially a five minute warm-up is all that is needed prior to warming up on the specific barbell exercise, assuming barbell training is the workout. We prefer the rower because it takes the relevant joints through a full range of motion and elevates the temperature of the relevant structures, which is the purpose of "warming up" to begin with. Anything more is exorbitant.


is this program appropriate for maintaining strength while reducing bodyfat?

I don't really know. That depends on a lot of factors, most of which are under your control. The addition of high intensity glycolytic exercise along with a lower carb intake may help, but you'll have to try it and see. If you were doing SS and had very high bodyfat, you could probably lower the carb count.

But then again, I am generally unconcerned with aesthetics and have a hard time comprehending just wanting to maintain strength, unless it is relevant to a competitive goal.

[josephjung]

I didn't give you the right question on warmup. My bad. I meant how do you warm up on pulling days? Do you do some squats and then start warming up for pulls? Or do you just do 5 min light cardio and then skip any form of squat warmup to the pulls warmup directly. I am asking this because Rip mentioned about doing squat warmups even when a trainee is doing power clean as the first thing in SS.

[LaHabra]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I should be held accountable for preventing forrest fires, I can't even prevent premature ejaculation.

My goals are to be physically able to excel at various activities while not specializing in any one thing. I'm to old to compete in collegiate sports but do enjoy recreational competition as it arises, from billiards to fast pitch baseball.

I'm interested in your program because of the decrease of time needed to complete the prescribed exercises and the addition of metcon to add diversity to the training. I don't think I'm strong enough to even care about adding metcon yet though.

If I scratch my ass after squatting then rub my eye, will I get pink eye?

[JLascek]

I didn't give you the right question on warmup. My bad. I meant how do you warm up on pulling days? Do you do some squats and then start warming up for pulls? Or do you just do 5 min light cardio and then skip any form of squat warmup to the pulls warmup directly. I am asking this because Rip mentioned about doing squat warmups even when a trainee is doing power clean as the first thing in SS.

I'm not familiar with what Rip quote you're referring to, but I've squatted with the empty bar prior to doing an Olympic lifting workout. You're certainly allowed to do what you want, but typically after the general warm-up (rowing machine and such) you go into the specific exercise warm-up. Don't stress about it -- you'll be fine.


Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I should be held accountable for preventing forrest fires, I can't even prevent premature ejaculation.

I'm interested in your program because of the decrease of time needed to complete the prescribed exercises and the addition of metcon to add diversity to the training. I don't think I'm strong enough to even care about adding metcon yet though.

If I scratch my ass after squatting then rub my eye, will I get pink eye?

Paragraph 1: Practice makes perfect. Maybe.

Paragraph 2: How far along are you in the novice progression? The answer to that may help you decide if you want to finish it before moving onto the CFWF program. Your goals seem to be General Physical Preparedness, so maybe that will help you decide.
If you don't think you're strong enough for met-con, then perhaps continuing the novice progression would be more helpful, but I don't have a lot of data to try and answer your question with.

Paragraph 3: If you don't squat, then you'll get pink eye. Fact.

__________________________________________________ _______


For anybody still following this, I've updated the definition of metabolic conditioning. The new addition is italicized:

Metabolic conditioning is a collection of movements that are organized to A) produce and maintain a high metabolic output relative to the amount of time it is performed and B) it forces an adaptation that leads to a minimization of recovery time between periods of high output.



The article has also been modified to appear more like an article instead of a blog post.

Link: http://crossfitwichitafalls.com/Content/CFWF_Program.pdf

[stronger]

Metabolic conditioning is a collection of movements that are organized to A) produce and maintain a high metabolic output relative to the amount of time it is performed and B) it forces an adaptation that leads to a minimization of recovery time between periods of high output.


I'm new to crossfit, but in the last 24 hours I've fallen head over heels for it. Would "the girls" workouts qualify as metcon? This is probably a dumb question.

I intend to do 2 crossfit workouts/week, and perhaps after my strength workouts although I'll wait and see what your metcon programming article brings.

Eventually my goals are 550dead, 475 squat and 275+ powerclean at 5'8-5'9 190-205lbs. I also think doing 50 pullups would be simply awesome.

Thanks for the thread, can't wait till I can begin construction on my crossfit friendly gym.

[StLRPh]

What are your thoughts on doing the workout as outlined but working out on Mon/Wed/Fri instead of the listed days?

My main goals are to focus on adding strength and introduce some conditioning work after I've done a month or so of straight SS.

Thanks,

[JLascek]

I'm new to crossfit, but in the last 24 hours I've fallen head over heels for it. Would "the girls" workouts qualify as metcon? This is probably a dumb question.

I intend to do 2 crossfit workouts/week, and perhaps after my strength workouts although I'll wait and see what your metcon programming article brings.

Eventually my goals are 550dead, 475 squat and 275+ powerclean at 5'8-5'9 190-205lbs. I also think doing 50 pullups would be simply awesome.

Thanks for the thread, can't wait till I can begin construction on my crossfit friendly gym.

The only goals you have listed are to gain strength, yet you want to do met-cons along with that? It'd be relevant to know where you are at now (bodyweight, lifts, etc.).

Oh, and your pull-up dreams are mutually exclusive with respect to CrossFit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLl8rGhJvE


What are your thoughts on doing the workout as outlined but working out on Mon/Wed/Fri instead of the listed days?

My main goals are to focus on adding strength and introduce some conditioning work after I've done a month or so of straight SS.

Thanks,

Your initial question is vague and you haven't suggested an optimal way to do it. I guess I'll have to sound like Rip; if you change the program, then it no longer is the program, and most likely won't be optimal.

Regarding your second statement, search the forum, for this topic has come up before.