New squat and press vids - comments plz :D

[confuzzl3don3]

Hey so i tried to take all the advice u guys gave me before and so today hit the weights again but this time started at 85kg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBFF4keoWb0

It was stupid that for the 2nd set i had a little accident (bumped bar into a hook and ended up tipping the weights off both sides, not cool) so i only did 3 reps. Did another 2 reps after i reloaded everything

But yeah this was last set at 85.5kg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o-NCEu1yXU

And then my presses at 38.5kg. I could only do 3 sets of 4. ANd looking at the vids, they're terrible :P I really need to deload by 10% and work up from there again.

1st set - view from behind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLmK63zvQ0

2nd set - view from side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzeaykdsGZw

Things i noticed:
- bar moving back i think, not just up.
- weird assymetrical lift (left side higher than right at shoulder level) no idea what's wrong with that
- as the weight gets heavy i go lopsided

Thanks guys :D

[Gary Gibson]

I like 'em.

And I like the way you hold a good back angle even when the going gets tough.

The second half of your presses, however, will surely cause bad dreams. Thanks.

[Tor]

I agree with Gary on the squats. Now just add 40 lbs. body weight (don't follow Gary's example --- sorry couldn't resist :) and you should be good to go.

[confuzzl3don3]

Do any of u guys have anything to say about the speed of the reps? some people have commented on how slow i am and how it isn't a fluid movement and saying that i should drop the weight. What should i be doing??

And about the press. THey're terrible and lopsided. I have no idea why. Anyone care to comment/help me out on that?

[tescott]

My advice: in terms of the presses, drop it to 30kg, and start from there. It's okay if it's easier at first - you'll quickly get to a point when it gets much harder. I get lopsided sometimes on my last reps of last sets, but I don't think its anything to worry about. Also, think 'up', and keep your elbows in front of the bar.

And for what its worth, squats look good to me. Tighter than the last ones. Though you could keep your head down a bit more. Don't be too keen to add weight too fast. Judging by the difficulty of the last set, I wouldn't add much. No more than 2.5kg for next time.

Keep eating and lifting hard!

[Gary Gibson]

Do any of u guys have anything to say about the speed of the reps? some people have commented on how slow i am and how it isn't a fluid movement and saying that i should drop the weight. What should i be doing??

Who are these people? Would you like for us to beat them up?

Maybe I should record my first squat of a Smolov session and my last so you can see. The last rep tends to be about a quarter of the speed of the first. Slow is what happens when you are using a weight that's heavy for you and you're getting tired.

The only time I end up moving fast throughout the session is when I'm doing under 70% for speed doubles and triples AFTER high volume (lots of sets), high intensity (lots of weight) cycles.

As for your press: I'm guessing your form is breaking down because you're simply using too much weight. Slowing down because it's heavy and going all cockeyed because it's too heavy are two different things. Your squats are a case of the first; your presses of the second, i.e. you're trying to press your 3RM five times.

[Tenbagger]

Your presses don't look good at all.

I think your problems originate at the bottom; therefore breathing at the top is not helpful at this point - breathe at the bottom.

Your upper body is tilted back during the whole set. You should start from a normal upright position - elbows slightly in front of the bar is enough.

Suck in lots of air before the rep starts; press the chest forward and create a hard valsalva. Before you move the bar, you must make your upper back and shoulders a firm foundation for your arms to move from. Tightening up the chest and squeezing the shoulder blades together at the same time. I'm guessing this will fix the asymmetry problem.

Start the movement by tilting your upper body slightly back around the hips. As soon as the bar has cleared the face, the upper body should again be in a normal upright position.

[misspelledgeoff]

Please listen to Gary. Gary knows how to squat. Your problem is not your form in any of your lifts. Your problem is the weight is too goddam heavy. and the weight is too goddam heavy because you are too goddam skinny.

Have a goal to gain 8 pounds by Monday of next week. Then be amazed at what your squat and press does. Now please leave the computer and go eat.


Who are these people? Would you like for us to beat them up?

Maybe I should record my first squat of a Smolov session and my last so you can see. The last rep tends to be about a quarter of the speed of the first. Slow is what happens when you are using a weight that's heavy for you and you're getting tired.

The only time I end up moving fast throughout the session is when I'm doing under 70% for speed doubles and triples AFTER high volume (lots of sets), high intensity (lots of weight) cycles.

As for your press: I'm guessing your form is breaking down because you're simply using too much weight. Slowing down because it's heavy and going all cockeyed because it's too heavy are two different things. Your squats are a case of the first; your presses of the second, i.e. you're trying to press your 3RM five times.

[brianb]

Anyone other than me thinking his grip on the presses is too wide?

[confuzzl3don3]

My advice: in terms of the presses, drop it to 30kg, and start from there. It's okay if it's easier at first - you'll quickly get to a point when it gets much harder. I get lopsided sometimes on my last reps of last sets, but I don't think its anything to worry about. Also, think 'up', and keep your elbows in front of the bar.

And for what its worth, squats look good to me. Tighter than the last ones. Though you could keep your head down a bit more. Don't be too keen to add weight too fast. Judging by the difficulty of the last set, I wouldn't add much. No more than 2.5kg for next time.

Keep eating and lifting hard!

Ok thanks for the help. I was thinking of deloading the press by 10% so basically 35kg but would that be too little? It's just that i think in PP or was it SS, ripp said to deload by only 10% as to not cause loss of progress. And about the squats - 2.5kg!! i'm alredi down to upping the weight 1kg at a time :P


Who are these people? Would you like for us to beat them up?

Maybe I should record my first squat of a Smolov session and my last so you can see. The last rep tends to be about a quarter of the speed of the first. Slow is what happens when you are using a weight that's heavy for you and you're getting tired.

The only time I end up moving fast throughout the session is when I'm doing under 70% for speed doubles and triples AFTER high volume (lots of sets), high intensity (lots of weight) cycles.

As for your press: I'm guessing your form is breaking down because you're simply using too much weight. Slowing down because it's heavy and going all cockeyed because it's too heavy are two different things. Your squats are a case of the first; your presses of the second, i.e. you're trying to press your 3RM five times.

thanks for the confirmation that my squats are fine being slower, it just means their heavy. Like tescott said i'm probably going to deload on the press down to 35kg to work on getting it down.


Your presses don't look good at all.

I think your problems originate at the bottom; therefore breathing at the top is not helpful at this point - breathe at the bottom.

Your upper body is tilted back during the whole set. You should start from a normal upright position - elbows slightly in front of the bar is enough.

Suck in lots of air before the rep starts; press the chest forward and create a hard valsalva. Before you move the bar, you must make your upper back and shoulders a firm foundation for your arms to move from. Tightening up the chest and squeezing the shoulder blades together at the same time. I'm guessing this will fix the asymmetry problem.

Start the movement by tilting your upper body slightly back around the hips. As soon as the bar has cleared the face, the upper body should again be in a normal upright position.

All great advice. Will try this.


Please listen to Gary. Gary knows how to squat. Your problem is not your form in any of your lifts. Your problem is the weight is too goddam heavy. and the weight is too goddam heavy because you are too goddam skinny.

Have a goal to gain 8 pounds by Monday of next week. Then be amazed at what your squat and press does. Now please leave the computer and go eat.

i guess the thing about eating so much is that ripp said to eat 200-500 cals over your maintenance is all you need to build muscle and the rest will be fat. So if i am shooting to eat lets say at 500 over maintenance/day, then how am i meant to gain 8lbs in a week? you need like 3500 cals excess to build around 1lb of body weight. I know my aim is to get strong, but at the same time i don't want to just pack on excessive fat for no reason.


Anyone other than me thinking his grip on the presses is too wide?

Hmm are they a bit wide? THey look like about 5cm wider than shoulder width. Do i need to narrow them?

[misspelledgeoff]

i give up.




i guess the thing about eating so much is that ripp said to eat 200-500 cals over your maintenance is all you need to build muscle and the rest will be fat. So if i am shooting to eat lets say at 500 over maintenance/day, then how am i meant to gain 8lbs in a week? you need like 3500 cals excess to build around 1lb of body weight. I know my aim is to get strong, but at the same time i don't want to just pack on excessive fat for no reason.

[confuzzl3don3]

i give up.

sorry but could you really explain this to me?? it seems really contradictory...

i don't mean to be a stubborn idiot, it just doesn't seem right that Rippetoe says that one should be aiming to eat 200-500 cals over maintenance, and at the same time tells people to eat like 5-7k cals of food. I'm just confused unless everyone needs like 4.5k+ cals worth of food daily just to maintain their weight.

Please forgive my stupidity and enlighten me

[Gary Gibson]

sorry but could you really explain this to me?? it seems really contradictory...

i don't mean to be a stubborn idiot, it just doesn't seem right that Rippetoe says that one should be aiming to eat 200-500 cals over maintenance, and at the same time tells people to eat like 5-7k cals of food. I'm just confused unless everyone needs like 4.5k+ cals worth of food daily just to maintain their weight.

Please forgive my stupidity and enlighten me

S'up, dude.

I know you're not trying to be an idiot, but I'll bet one of my many testicles that Mark does not mean for novices (which you are) to consume only 200-500 kcals over maintenance.

Horses for courses. An experienced powerlifter who's already gained 100 lbs over the past five years probably doesn't need an extra 2400 kcals via GOMAD; a 150-lb man who has yet to hit double bodyweight squat to legal depth does.

[confuzzl3don3]

S'up, dude.

I know you're not trying to be an idiot, but I'll bet one of my many testicles that Mark does not mean for novices (which you are) to consume only 200-500 kcals over maintenance.

Horses for courses. An experienced powerlifter who's already gained 100 lbs over the past five years probably doesn't need an extra 2400 kcals via GOMAD; a 150-lb man who has yet to hit double bodyweight squat to legal depth does.

Hmm ok i'll crank up the cals and hope 4 the best :D

[Gwynn]

... I'll bet one of my many testicles...

LOL I was going to just let this speak for itself, but was told that my message needed to be at least 10 characters.

Gary, you rock.

[misspelledgeoff]

hey confuzz, sorry for coming off like a jerk. don't mind me. i'm just a grumpy old fart who is bitter that he wasted his youth worrying about 'abs' instead of eating and getting strong. Now I'm trying to get strong at 39 when it would have been so much easier if i would have just done the right things at 19.

I just get frustrated when I see skinny young guys jeapardize their efforts to get big and strong by worryin about a little extra body fat.

Oh, and what Gary said. He's right as usual.


sorry but could you really explain this to me?? it seems really contradictory...

i don't mean to be a stubborn idiot, it just doesn't seem right that Rippetoe says that one should be aiming to eat 200-500 cals over maintenance, and at the same time tells people to eat like 5-7k cals of food. I'm just confused unless everyone needs like 4.5k+ cals worth of food daily just to maintain their weight.

Please forgive my stupidity and enlighten me

[confuzzl3don3]

hey confuzz, sorry for coming off like a jerk. don't mind me. i'm just a grumpy old fart who is bitter that he wasted his youth worrying about 'abs' instead of eating and getting strong. Now I'm trying to get strong at 39 when it would have been so much easier if i would have just done the right things at 19.

I just get frustrated when I see skinny young guys jeapardize their efforts to get big and strong by worryin about a little extra body fat.

Oh, and what Gary said. He's right as usual.

No worries. I was the stubborn dumb ass :D

[titan]

sorry but could you really explain this to me?? it seems really contradictory...

i don't mean to be a stubborn idiot, it just doesn't seem right that Rippetoe says that one should be aiming to eat 200-500 cals over maintenance, and at the same time tells people to eat like 5-7k cals of food. I'm just confused unless everyone needs like 4.5k+ cals worth of food daily just to maintain their weight.

Please forgive my stupidity and enlighten me
Here's the thing... you look like you're about 170(ish)cm tall, and weighing in at about 70kgs if not less. You are SKINNY. Do you understand what skinny is?

You are squatting a weight that you cannot perform 5 decent reps on for 3 sets across.

You have two options:
1) continue squatting the weights like you are (form break down and not at a decent depth);
2) eat more food, eat more food and eat more food, then deload to a reasonable weight (say 60kgs) to get your form looking better for your 3x5, then rinse and repeat.

If you happen to perform option 2 correctly, by the time you get back to 85kgs you should blow straight through your 3 sets and be ready to hit 87.5kg the next workout. If performed correctly (i.e. squatting 3 times per week and adding 2.5kg to the bar each workout), you will hit 80kgs on the 3rd week and by the 4th week progressing past your own PR (85kgs).

Of course, this is all dependant on whether you actually EAT, and put this stupid idea of bodyfat out of your mind.

Could it be any simpler?

[Gary Gibson]

170 cm and 70 kg. Yeah, he's skinny. But I'm 175 cm and 77 kg which translates to just about as skinny. So I won't hold that against him.

Confuzz, I reiterate that your last set is not supposed to look as easy as your first. Mine never do. So I'm not going to kick you in the teeth for struggling to get those last two. You did a good job maintaining form despite fatigue. I've done much worse and still managed to put about 100 lbs on my squat this year. Now I can do my old max for many, many reps and sets with absolutely perfect form. For training purposes remember that perfect is the enemy of good. I'm not saying to allow your squats to become good mornings; I am saying that your fifth set of squats with a heavy (for you) weight looked good enough.

You do, however, need to knock a few pounds off that press.

Why don't you post these vids for Mark to see? You can get sniped till Jesus comes back here or you can just present these for Mark and get a professional opinion at no cost.

[titan]

170 cm and 70 kg. Yeah, he's skinny. But I'm 175 cm and 77 kg which translates to just about as skinny. So I won't hold that against him.

Confuzz, I reiterate that your last set is not supposed to look as easy as your first. Mine never do. So I'm not going to kick you in the teeth for struggling to get those last two. You did a good job maintaining form despite fatigue. I've done much worse and still managed to put about 100 lbs on my squat this year. Now I can do my old max for many, many reps and sets with absolutely perfect form. For training purposes remember that perfect is the enemy of good. I'm not saying to allow your squats to become good mornings; I am saying that your fifth set of squats with a heavy (for you) weight looked good enough.

You do, however, need to knock a few pounds off that press.

Why don't you post these vids for Mark to see? You can get sniped till Jesus comes back here or you can just present these for Mark and get a professional opinion at no cost.
Gary,

I've seen your videos posted previously and while I agree you are also a skinny arse mofo, you are an incredibly strong one for your size and I seriously doubt that you don't eat enough calories to continue progressing with your squats and other lifts.

If you can honestly tell me that at 175cm and 77kg that you only consume 2000-2500cals/day then you are a freak of nature, because anyone who is squatting over 100+kgs on a regular basis (and wants to continue linear progression) NEEDS more than 2500cals per day just to get the job done.

I reiterate my point that he is not eating enough... I can't guarantee it, but I doubt he is even breaking 3000cals/day.

Just for fun, I suggest he tries it for 3-4 weeks (as a bare minimum) while he deloads and gets the weight back down a bit and just see what the results are like. Fuck, what's the worst that can happen? He gains a few cms around the waist and his squat goes up 10kgs? I know what I'd be trying...

[Gary Gibson]

Gary,

I've seen your videos posted previously and while I agree you are also a skinny arse mofo, you are an incredibly strong one for your size and I seriously doubt that you don't eat enough calories to continue progressing with your squats and other lifts.

If you can honestly tell me that at 175cm and 77kg that you only consume 2000-2500cals/day then you are a freak of nature, because anyone who is squatting over 100+kgs on a regular basis (and wants to continue linear progression) NEEDS more than 2500cals per day just to get the job done.

I reiterate my point that he is not eating enough... I can't guarantee it, but I doubt he is even breaking 3000cals/day.

Just for fun, I suggest he tries it for 3-4 weeks (as a bare minimum) while he deloads and gets the weight back down a bit and just see what the results are like. Fuck, what's the worst that can happen? He gains a few cms around the waist and his squat goes up 10kgs? I know what I'd be trying...

Thanks, titan. I was just about to post that confuzz absolutely should not be afraid of eating. I think his squats are fine, but he needs to lose all fear of getting fat. And knock a few pounds of those press work sets.

Confuzz, eat everything you can and squat. And please don't ever forget that your body will not grow muscle without fat. In fact, as you grow more muscular, the ratio of fat your body will lay down with each unit of muscle will actually increase. The athletes with the most muscle mass are sumo wrestlers. A man will never be his strongest if he remains svelte. The very strongest men in the world would be laughed off a bodybuilding stage.

I gained my "easy" weight years ago when I went from 130 to 160. I'm just at the point in my training life where gains come slowly. I'm adding about 10 lbs per year over the long term...and that will diminish as my training age increases. It will probably take 3 more years for me to get to over 200 lbs. But that's Gary who is obviously designed for leanness even in the face of increasing strength. Still, I love gorging myself during really hard training cycles. Being constantly full of meat and milk DOES make a difference to how strong I am come squat time.

[MAD9692]

Gary is a freak -he squats 405 at a body weight of 170.
Confused needs to follow Rip's and everybody elses advice - which is to eat alot. Eat everything in site and your lifts will follow suit. Go to 70sbig.com for examples of what you should be eating.

[Gary Gibson]

Gary is a freak -he squats 405 at a body weight of 170.

Not to hijack the thread, but some clarification is in order: I missed 405 at the sticking point, but got a nice, clean, only slightly bent over 395 at 169. I like to think that if I'd gone for 405 first and been a bit fresher and had more confidence about catching the hamstring bounce, I would have gotten it. But could-a and should-a don't get white lights!

edit:
There are guys like Tony Conyers squatting mid-500s raw at 165. And there's Wade Hooper who could probably have squatted somewhere around there or more raw when he was 165 (800s single-ply in the IPF which requires walk out and serious--some would say excessive--depth). Of course, I'm a lot taller than either of these phenomenal squatters. But powerlifting doesn't recognize height distinctions; I simply need to be 30-40 lbs heavier if I want to be strong at this height.

[misspelledgeoff]

confuz, if you haven't read this thread in the Q&A forum, please do so.

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=13360

[confuzzl3don3]

Hey so i got some new press vids i hope show some improvement in my form.

First set (back view) at 35kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59He-kuvV4s

Last set (side view) at 35kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni9nVFJ-qMA

And my last set of squats at 87.5kg. I tried slowing the descent down a bit more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDstsaPJjrs

So comments guys?