Starting Strength for losing weight

[Pnigro]

Hello Rip!

First of all, I want to clarify that I am aware that:

- Diet is the most important factor in losing weight

- Weightlifting is the best long term solution because the more muscle one has the easier it is to burn fat and look better

With that said, here's my question:

If a 5'4 150 lbs chubby girl comes to you and tells you that she's tired of looking fat and wants to lose weight, would you put her strictly on a Starting Strength program? If not, what would be your approach?

She doesn't care AT ALL about being strong, she just wants to lose fat and look good.

I ask this because a lot of female friends come to me so I can help them lose weight, but as soon as I put them on Starting Strength they start complaining and telling me that that's not what they want. They lose motivation.

So I was thinking of putting them on a metcon/hiit type of program so they can see short term results and THEN convince them to do SS. Is this a good idea?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Some women are, at times, hard to reason with.

[Mr.City]

Best of luck trying to dispel the mountain of silly bullshit created by women's health magazines, Oprah, and muscle mags, the ones with the grotesque she-beasts whom most women believe they will turn into should they even touch a barbell. I mean it; show her the right way.

[bjvinson]

She doesn't care AT ALL about being strong, she just wants to lose fat and look good.

I'm not a doctor or a coach but I'm pretty sure these two things are mutually exclusive.

My baby sister, who introduced me to Starting Strength, Strong Enough? and Practical Programming, has over the course of about 18 months lost 65 lbs and in the process transformed herself from a couch potato into an athletic woman.

She bought a power rack, an Olympic bar, a bench and set of bumper plates then proceeded to literally work her ass off by doing squats, dead lifts, bench presses, power cleans and presses.

Based on her results, I think you should care about getting stronger.

[Gwynn]

The sad truth is that as we pass through puberty, many of us women succumb to the brainwashing we are constantly barraged with that tells us it is better to be pretty than strong. Since beauty ideals for women have become rather skeletal in the last 20 years or so, that means to be pretty will require the average female to be weak.

I have a friend who runs a dojo where they have a great kids program. He says that his girls kick ass until they hit puberty. Then they disappear. Evidently it is also not cool to want to kick ass.

Even women I know are tough, who train with me, are afraid of lifting heavy weights because they don't want their arms to get bigger. They say it will make them look fat.

So good luck. And if you find yourself able to talk any woman who is afraid to be muscular into Starting Strength, please let me know how you did it.

[KSC]

I quit trying to use SS on MOST women who are of this mind set a long time ago. They won't buy into it and most of them give up or quit before the program can run its course.

I do this shit for a living so part of maintaining a steady client base and therefore an income requires that I sometimes adjust my programming to satisfy the mental and emotional needs of my clients while still incorporating the things that I know to work.

All my clients squat, deadlift, press, bench, and many of them clean and snatch as well. My programs are all based around these lifts, but at times I will incorpate other things like lunges that I am not really a big fan of. I will also do more stuff in the 10-15 rep range rather than sets of 5.

Again, this isn't ideal, but it can still work and if you are getting your clients to squat, deadlift, press, etc CORRECTLY you can justify making these types of modifications where necessary.

Again, I generally only have to do this for women in the 30-45 year old age group, who have their heads filled with so much bullshit it is hard to overcome. Over time, if they have success on the program, they will trust you more and you can show them the usefullness of doing something more resembling SS.

there is my experience...take it for what its worth.

[Patrick L.]

My baby sister, who introduced me to Starting Strength, Strong Enough? and Practical Programming, has over the course of about 18 months lost 65 lbs and in the process transformed herself from a couch potato into an athletic woman.



What a great success story about your sister. I think if she had before/after pictures of herself that she would be willing to share, I am sure it would go a long way in convincing other woman that they should try the SS program.

[cmdrfunk]

The sad truth is that as we pass through puberty, many of us women succumb to the brainwashing we are constantly barraged with that tells us it is better to be pretty than strong. Since beauty ideals for women have become rather skeletal in the last 20 years or so, that means to be pretty will require the average female to be weak.




No, these ideals are invented by women and gay men who know nothing about female attractiveness.

Straight men are not asking women to be thin as hell. It is not attractive. Many, many men like lean women with muscle tone while maintaining some curvature. Not really muscular, but athletic women who still have some curves are hot. Yes, i feel dirty using "tone" in that way.

Actually I read an article recently stating that in polls men prefer size 10 women. Women prefer size 6 women.

WOMEN place those standards on women. They are not society's ideals.

So women are victims of the same disease as bodybuilders. They're prancing around for each other.

I shudder at the site of a woman's ribs. Also, really skinny usually excludes a woman having breastage. Just think of it biologically. Why would men find a woman who looks sickly and infertile attractive? Starving women can't support pregnancy. It comes down to health. Neither skinny nor fat is healthy and thus unattractive.

[tim_mcf]

Some women are, at times, hard to reason with.

That is by far the most artistically understated bit of humor I have yet read on this board. I salute you. Genius.

[Gwynn]

No, these ideals are invented by women and gay men who know nothing about female attractiveness.

Straight men are not asking women to be thin as hell. It is not attractive.



Just to clear a few things up:

A. I don't believe I blamed straight men, or any other group of people, for being the agents of said brainwashing.

B. I know many many women, and gay men, who find butch women attractive. But that is not my main point. My main point is that women are encouraged to believe that being attractive is more important than anything else. Including being strong.

C. I am not attacking straight men. I have many friends who are straight men. I even date one. :-)

and D.

[Gwynn]

WOMEN place those standards on women. They are not society's ideals.


and D.

um, methinks I hit the submit button a mite too quickly.

and D. Women are not part of "society?"

[coreJack]

She doesn't care AT ALL about being strong, she just wants to lose fat and look good.

I ask this because a lot of female friends come to me so I can help them lose weight, but as soon as I put them on Starting Strength they start complaining and telling me that that's not what they want. They lose motivation.

Similar situation here. A female friend recently came to me and asked me to help train her. Our first two sessions, I taught her the squat, deadlift, etc. And I don't think there will be a third session.

She is grossed out by muscle on a woman, and just wants to get back to being as skinny as she was years ago. Ummm, ok. Good luck with that. Even if she had the discipline to eat less, she risks putting herself in starvation mode, which will cause her diet to fail and the fat to come right back on. This is why so many women have weight fluctuations over the years.

Even women I know are tough, who train with me, are afraid of lifting heavy weights because they don't want their arms to get bigger. They say it will make them look fat.
If it wasn't so frustrating, it would be hilarious. Those women should take a look at this forum. We've got so many guys here lifting heavy and eating everything in sight to try and put on weight, and we have the benefit of testosterone. Yet these women think that lifting alone is going to get them bulky - I wish it was so easy!


So good luck. And if you find yourself able to talk any woman who is afraid to be muscular into Starting Strength, please let me know how you did it.
If a woman can't convince her female friends to lift heavy, I don't think a guy has much of a chance. They have to decide for themselves that the attainment of strength and physical beauty are not incompatible goals. Being a skinny woman with no discernible muscle and having a sustainable and enjoyable diet - now those are incompatible goals.

I'm curious to hear how Gwynn and other women here have managed to reverse the brainwashing they've been exposed to as it regards weights, muscle, and women.

[Mark Rippetoe]

An excellent question. Gwynn?

[Platus]

My girlfriend has been doing SS with me for a couple of months. Her main objectives are fat loss, and she sometimes adds metcon to SS to that end. She has been excited about her strength gains; as she put it, they make her feel "badass." She is rather short (the other day she tragically discovered that she is actually 4'11' and not 5'), and feels that she is therefore seen as less capable. She works part time as an art handler, and has taken to showing off by lifting heavy crates by herself.

It may not work for everyone, but there is some portion of the female population that is empowered when they realize that they can in fact lift heavy.

[tremorviolet]

Pics of gorgeous muscular women helped convince me women can be strong and look good. I will admit thatthe first time I picked up a barbell was in high school and I quit the first time I saw a thigh muscle as it freaked me out.
I started lifting again at 40 at 5'6" and 135 lbs. I dropped 10 lbs and an entire dress. At 42, I have smaller waist than i ever did in my 20s. And it feels awesome to squat more than the young fellas.

Btw, I'm typing this at, my first pl meet ever, the Longhorn Usapl Open, where I'm crashing and burning. I've learned i should maybe be a bit less ambitious on my openers. :(

[YuanHao]

My sister, who studies physical therapy is the only woman that I will ever see squatting (somewhat) heavy under the bar. Me and OP Pnigro convinced her about the benefits of squatting, deadlifting, free weights, etc.

Max squat was 185 pounds for 4 reps and deadlift was around 185 pounds too (at 137 lbs BW).

Couple of older videos for anyone who wants to be as proud as I am of my sister:

Squat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecg7tm-FPqo
Deadlift: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZky6WW8Z6A

And I must say, you take a look at her legs and definitely realize that all that effort has paid off. Her diet's also REALLY off, besides eating as much as I do, she eats a load of junk, candies, cakes, etc. but all that muscle does the trick and she's in pretty good shape if you ask me.

Unfortunately, I can't fall in love with my sister :(

[Kate]

Gwynn wrote:

The sad truth is that as we pass through puberty, many of us women succumb to the brainwashing we are constantly barraged with that tells us it is better to be pretty than strong. That is a sad fact. I think the brainwashing is even worse now than when I was growing up (I'm 48). As Gwynn said, female models are getting ever more skeletal. I find that alarming. I do, however, take some comfort in the fact that, as far as I can tell right now, my nieces (all in their teens & 20s) have escaped or ignored that twisted "ideal" and are healthy, active young women. Hope to God they stay that way.

Bjvinson -- mad props to your sister.

Cmdrfunk wrote:

Many, many men like lean women with muscle tone while maintaining some curvature. Not really muscular.... (emphasis added)Looks like men are not immune from this issue, either.

Cmdrfunk also wrote:

So women are victims of the same disease as bodybuilders. They're prancing around for each other.No, dear, not the same; I'm afraid it's much more serious than "prancing around." For us (women), the stakes could not be higher. Many girls and women are starving themselves -- sometimes to death -- in attempts to meet an impossible ideal.

Now, anorexia is a complicated, many-faceted illness, with brain-chemistry factors, perception distortions, family-dynamics factors, and all sorts of strange things tangled up together -- I could write a book about it, and not just from a theoretical standpoint -- so I'd never say that anorexia is caused by images of super-thin women in the media. It's not. But those images aren't helping. None of us live in a vacuum.


Pnigro,
You might direct your friends to Krista Scott-Dixon's site, stumptuous.com (http://www.stumptuous.com/), and/or to the book "The New Rules of Lifting for Women: Lift Like a Man, Look Like a Goddess" by Lou Schuler. (Unfortunately, I'm neither lifting like a man yet nor looking like a goddess, but the limitations are mine, not the book's. There is some good stuff in that book, and it's often quite funny.) The workout program in NROL4W was designed by Alwyn Cosgrove.

I started with that program this past spring, and got through the first phase of it (it's divided into 7 stages). Then I read SS:BBT (and PP and "Strong Enough?") and switched to Rip's program -- mostly because what Rip said about novices needing more strength (from basic lifts), not more exercises, made sense to me.

The NROL4W workouts get a bit involved, especially after Stage 1, but it appears that they work (i.e., women are getting stronger and losing fat), and there's an associated online forum (http://forums.jpfitness.com/new-rules-lifting-women/)where your friends could get support & encouragement.

Once your women friends start making progress, they might find their motivation & attitudes shifting.

The vanity angle might shift a bit over time, too. I'm not very strong yet -- I keep letting work & other things interfere with training -- but am probably stronger than I look, at 5'6", 120 pounds. I find that it's kinda fun to be able to say "thanks, but I got it" when some nice guy at a lumber yard or elsewhere offers to help me lift something that I can lift on my own, and to be able to say "I can handle that" when the guy at the stone yard tells me that the bluestone pieces I want for a path weigh 60 pounds each. (I can't carry those stones very far, but I can lift & carry them and set them in place. Surprised my dad, doing that.)

In the end, though, all you can do is provide information, tell your women friends that strength is attractive, encourage them, and maybe nudge them a little, and the rest is up to them. Motivation is tricky, even without weight and body-image issues in the mix.

~Kate

[Kate]

As long as I'm running off at the keyboard today, I might as well keep going a bit longer.... (I'd like to hear from Gwynn & Heather & other chicks out there, too.)


I'm curious to hear how Gwynn and other women here have managed to reverse the brainwashing they've been exposed to as it regards weights, muscle, and women.

I'm not sure that I have entirely reversed the brainwashing. But to the extent that I have, I can think of a few reasons:

1) Reading. Just reading, and getting the information, and using my brain (or what's left of it).

Some examples: I'll mention Krista's site again: stumptuous.com. She's an inspiration, she's a very smart cookie, she's funny, and she's got a lot of really good information on her site. Some of the articles there directly address the issue of women being afraid to get big, and they do it well. And the book I mentioned, "The New Rules of Lifting for Women," also addresses this issue. And of course, Rip's books.

2) Being ornery, and being impatient with stupidity. When I was searching online for information on weight training, I came across the site of some moron (a guy) who says, quite definitively, "women should *never* do squats or deadlifts." Oh really? Then I guess I shouldn't have hauled home all those hundreds of scavenged rocks (some of which were more than half of my body weight) and built my 44-long dry-stack stone wall. Silly me -- because that kind of work involves a *lot* of lifting & carrying and a whole lotta squatting. (But damn, my legs looked good after that. Arms, too.)

3) Getting tired, in a very specific way: Being too thin just gets old. I got tired of seeing my ribs & hip bones. I got tired of not being able to find clothes that fit, or looking like a scarecrow. I got tired of intrusive and worried and sometimes insulting comments from strangers & family & friends. And I'm not real happy about already having osteopenia and osteoporosis. And I am reeeeeally tired of seeing skeletal female models in catalogs and on TV; for being so small, they manage to do a huge disservice to the rest of us (and to themselves).

4) Practicality. I like to build stuff, like stone walls and lumber retaining walls and other fun, artistic, and useful pieces of landscaping. And to build stuff, I have to be able to carry heavy stuff. (Well, heavy for me.)


As soon as I post this, I'll probably think of something else, but that's it for now. (Finally! they say...) Hope that helps, some.

~Kate

[coreJack]

I started lifting again at 40 at 5'6" and 135 lbs. I dropped 10 lbs and an entire dress. At 42, I have smaller waist than i ever did in my 20s. And it feels awesome to squat more than the young fellas.
But what made you return to the weights, after being so scared of gaining muscle from your earlier experience?

And I must say, you take a look at her legs and definitely realize that all that effort has paid off.
Yeah, not to mention her butt, which is much better than those of your average Asian female.

Unfortunately, I can't fall in love with my sister :(
Ummm, ok dude, that's just creepy. But please, keep keep posting videos of her doing squats and deads in short shorts.

I'm not sure that I have entirely reversed the brainwashing. But to the extent that I have, I can think of a few reasons:[. . . ]
Kate, thanks for the thorough explanation. I had pointed my friend to Stumptuous, NROL4W, even the JP forum discussing NROL4W as we were getting started. I think her aversion to muscle is so great that she won't even spend time checking out these resources. She's too in love with what she used to look like (and I must admit, she was hawt) when she was younger, metabolism was faster, etc. Of course, her diet is the same or worse as when she was younger, and her stress levels are higher, and general activity levels are lower. For a smart girl, she has a lot of trouble adding 2 and 2. :rolleyes:

But like you said, it comes down to motivation. And as unhappy as she is with her figure, she's not motivated enough to deal with the perceived unpleasantness involved in really doing something about it.

[isis]

Here's my story, not sure how relevant it is since the thing that kept me from trying weightlifting for the longest time wasn't concerns about my appearance. It was ignorance--when it came to the weight room I didn't know where to begin or even what questions to ask. Or why I should bother.

When I started lifting weights I wasn't thinking about how it might change my looks, maybe because I wasn't planning on doing it for very long. I just wanted to get back to being able to go play in the great outdoors after a knee injury and surgery and had been told by my orthopedic surgeon, after I finished physical therapy, to "go lift weights and get strong." (Apparently that kind of thing doesn't happen very often, but I didn't know that at the time).

I went looking on amazon for a weightlifting book for the totally clueless, found SS, and on about my 4th workout when I pulled 90 pounds off the floor and it felt lighter than 80 pounds had 4 days previously...I was suddenly addicted to getting stronger. And then when I started to grow shoulders and biceps, I discovered that my husband finds muscles on a woman hot. Although maybe I should have guessed from how he was glued to the TV when Misty May-Treanor was on. His opinion on my appearance is a lot more important to me than whatever's in the fashion magazines this week, and I'm happy it fits with my new goal of someday pressing the green plates.

But I must look better to my female friends too, between new shoulders, better posture and less belly fat. I've gotten lots of complements and interest in my workout program, and six female friends or family members have come to work out with me and learned the lifts, and a couple more say they're interested. I'm not trying to fix anybody's body image and I don't care if they stick with it--I'm just happy they are now less ignorant than I was.

[Mark Rippetoe]

This has become a more productive discussion than I had expected.

[Platus]

Originally Posted by coreJack http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?p=80289#post80289)
I'm curious to hear how Gwynn and other women here have managed to reverse the brainwashing they've been exposed to as it regards weights, muscle, and women.
I thought this was a productive question, so I posed it to my aforementioned girlfriend. She said that seeing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmO4JJrP5P8) helped her to overcome her previous misconceptions about weightlifting. After she saw some visual proof it was easier for her to take an honest look at other data demonstrating the beneficial effects of strength training (effects on weight loss, bone density, etc).

[mark]

It may not work for everyone, but there is some portion of the female population that is empowered when they realize that they can in fact lift heavy.


I think that portion might be greater than is believed. I have all my female clients that can do so use the big lifts, and lift heavy, and they all get very excited about getting stronger. I recently found out some of my clients have been bragging about their lifts on their Facebook pages.

The thing is, I don't approach their training by verbalizing, "I'm going to have you lift heavy." With a new client, I just say something like, "I'm going to teach you how to squat today." I can usually get them grooving the movement correctly within the first 30 minutes, and then I'll start slowly adding weight. I do the same thing with bench, deadlifts, presses, etc. Each time they come in for the first few sessions, they learn a new movement, and we'll reinforce one or two of the other moves they've already learned.

In the time that I've been doing this, I've never had anyone stop me and tell me this isn't the way they want to lift. Nor have I had any of them tell me they're getting too "bulky."

[Bootsy]

And then when I started to grow shoulders and biceps, I discovered that my husband finds muscles on a woman hot.

Those women painted brown on stage look horrible, and it seems like women have it in their head that if they lift weight to get stronger, they will look like that. To me, personally, I think a good ol' home grown 'squat booty' is just about the hottest thing in the world. If anything, barbell lifts make woman curvier, not 'shredded'.

[Gwynn]

An excellent question. Gwynn?

I'm just naturally contrary.

Actually however, I haven't overcome that conditioning. I merely work to prevent it from influencing my behavior.

[Kate]

So I've thought about this a little more, and I think I inadvertently discussed "thinness" and "muscle aversion" as if they were the same thing. But they're not. I'm still dealing with the "thinness" part of the cultural brainwashing, but I believe I did escape the "muscle aversion" part.

Our culture's pressure to be thin is relentless -- but I don't recall ever having the idea that women shouldn't be strong or muscular. Don't know if that's because of my parents, or because of my early (not terribly successful) attempts at athletics -- have you ever noticed how freakin' strong gymnasts can be? -- or because of the progressive/liberal atmosphere at my college, or because of the era in general (second wave of the feminist movement in the late '70s & early '80s). Prolly all of the above.

When I was in my early 30s, I worked out at a gym for a few years, but it was the machine- and circuit-based kind of workout. I didn't pick up a barbell until this past spring. And when I did, it was partially out of vanity. I wanted those hot-lookin' legs back -- which means that I'd already decided, or already "knew," that strength was attractive -- and the lack of it, not so much. (I also need stronger legs, and more endurance, for x-c skiing -- which brings us back to the "Practicality" factor.)

There are limits. Do I think that "she-beast," steroid-using bodybuilders are attractive? No. (I don't think "he-beast" bodybuilders are attractive, either. And if I'm really honest, I probably wouldn't be very attracted to the "70s Big" body type -- but you never know; I s'pose it would depend on the guy.) But your average (?), everyday, strong, muscular woman or man? Hell, yeah.


One more thing: In one of my earlier posts, I wrote as if only girls get anorexia -- but guys get it, too. Not in nearly the numbers as we women do, but it does happen.



I had pointed my friend to Stumptuous, NROL4W, even the JP forum discussing NROL4W as we were getting started. I think her aversion to muscle is so great that she won't even spend time checking out these resources. .... For a smart girl, she has a lot of trouble adding 2 and 2.

Well, there are different kinds of intelligence, and we all have our blind spots, I guess. I'm not sure there's much more you can do, if she won't even do a little reading. Maybe she'll come around, at some point, when she's ready.

~Kate

[Mark Rippetoe]

She said that seeing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmO4JJrP5P8) helped her to overcome her previous misconceptions about weightlifting.

I just hope it has not created some misconceptions about an effective way to squat.

[GianMilano]

The video quality's a little blurry, but I detect a mixture of shame and arousal on the faces of the two dudes in the background.

[Chickdiver]

Thought I would add my perspective....

I started lifting 12 years or so ago. In retrospect I got really lucky.

I'm a "technical SCUBA diver" which means that on a very regular basis I carry around equipment that weighs as much as I do. I've worked several projects over the years where I was one of only a few (or the only) women doing serious dives. I reached a point early on where loading and unloading 110#, 4.5' long DPV's out of the truck and walking around with 120lbs of gear on back was difficult. I got tired of it, so I walked into a Gold's Gym and hired a trainer. Lucky for me he taught me to bench, dead, squat, etc. I liked it. I've stuck with it over the years, through an ankle surgery, an ACL reconstruction, and a shoulder rebuild last year.

[Mcpie]

1) Reading. Just reading, and getting the information, and using my brain (or what's left of it).

Some examples: I'll mention Krista's site again: stumptuous.com. She's an inspiration, she's a very smart cookie, she's funny, and she's got a lot of really good information on her site. Some of the articles there directly address the issue of women being afraid to get big, and they do it well. And the book I mentioned, "The New Rules of Lifting for Women," also addresses this issue. And of course, Rip's books.

I took a course with Krista (she was/I assume still is) a prof, and that's a pretty bang on assessment of her. She's also a huge tech geek, so she tends to kinda smash a whole whack of sterotypes all at the same time (female weight lifting tech geek type thing).

The task of transforming the fitness industry, particularly for women, would be a hell of a lot easier with more people like her in the world.

[isis]

Here's a video to blow away misconceptions with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K_qiq3Wbzc

[Zarsky]

Excellent thread!!! I picked up a barbell almost 2 years ago at 39 and have not stopped.

I hated being weak. I was a skinny fat 6'0" cardio machine.

Tow observations:

Women lack good role models. They don't see many images of strong women outside of bodybuilding and fitness competitions.

Mothers dissuade women from these activities beginning at an early age. Luckily I did everything that my mother told me not to do (well maybe not everything).

I am not making that mistake with MY daughter. She is lifting heavy and loving it.

[tremorviolet]

But what made you return to the weights, after being so scared of gaining muscle from your earlier experience?

Well, I'd always admired athletic women even if I was afraid of visible muscle. I also have a solid meso/endo build so the waif look is impossible for me even when I was at my most eating disordered. (as practically all high school girls seemed to be in the 80s) And I took up rowing and having strength is important to my sport.
But what sold it to me was early body building pioneers like Rachel McLish and Gladys Portuguese (I'd seen Pumping Iron II). Women who were strong but still very feminine. Closer to the current fitness or bikini model, not the current women's bodybuilding standards. (which I find unattractive) Plus the Crossfit gals are always insanely hot and provide another role model besides the exceptionally slender actresses and models.

[LudwigVan]

I took a course with Krista (she was/I assume still is) a prof, and that's a pretty bang on assessment of her. She's also a huge tech geek, so she tends to kinda smash a whole whack of sterotypes all at the same time (female weight lifting tech geek type thing).

The task of transforming the fitness industry, particularly for women, would be a hell of a lot easier with more people like her in the world.

I don't know. I see stumptuous.com recommended to women a lot, but my feeling is similar to what I think Rip was expressing regarding the squat video posted above. On the one hand, getting women into strength training is a good thing for sure, and in that sense stumptuous is on the right track. On the other hand once I looked at the squat instruction (http://www.stumptuous.com/lurn-to-squat-good-e-zy), press instruction (http://www.stumptuous.com/shoulderoverhead-press), and workout plans (http://www.stumptuous.com/workout-1)on the site, I couldn't recommend it in good conscience. I guess half-assed strength training is better than none at all, but why not learn to do it effectively?

My girlfriend has been doing Starting Strength for 6 months or so now and has made excellent gains. It didn't really take any convincing. She saw me doing it and asked me to teach her, so I did. But she's a really smart girl.

[CrazySunshine]

Going to echo much of what's already been said, but anyway...

There's a nutritional program I'm sure many here are familiar with called Precision Nutrition, designed by Dr. John Berardi. He puts great emphasis on the fact that there are three aspects to nutrition, namely health, body-composition (looks), and performance. He observes that many diets focus on one while ignoring the others. Dirty bulking, excessive calorie restriction, you name it.

What's so appealing to me about Starting Strength is that it's taking the exact same holistic approach to strength training. When I read the introduction to the squat (if I recall correctly) in SSBBT, about the history of nautilus machines, how the body works mechanically and how it responds to stress, I was quite simply enlightened. The truth is so simple, and simple is beautiful.

I'm quite certain, that if people knew there was one way to train that made them look better, feel better, and perform better (as well as being more useful and harder to kill), they wouldn't train any other way.

If someone would still prefer not to train that way because of body issues, then that's tragic. But if someone refuses to educate themselves, then the problem isn't gender, it's people who prefer to remain willfully ignorant.


By the way, I work hard every day to become "bulky", and I'd be disgusted if anyone got that way by accident.

[Mcpie]

I don't know. I see stumptuous.com recommended to women a lot, but my feeling is similar to what I think Rip was expressing regarding the squat video posted above. On the one hand, getting women into strength training is a good thing for sure, and in that sense stumptuous is on the right track. On the other hand once I looked at the squat instruction (http://www.stumptuous.com/lurn-to-squat-good-e-zy), press instruction (http://www.stumptuous.com/shoulderoverhead-press), and workout plans (http://www.stumptuous.com/workout-1)on the site, I couldn't recommend it in good conscience. I guess half-assed strength training is better than none at all, but why not learn to do it effectively?

I'm not really qualified to critique form (I've worked doggedly on mine but I think it still sucks), so I can't really participate in that debate, but when it comes to women I think the message alone is worthy of praise. Namely that women can and should lift heavy shit and will not turn into monsters of muscle mass. Furthermore, this is coming from unabashed feminist who happens to also be exceedingly smart, a respected researcher and in general egg head. It shatters a lot of boundaries, and as a teacher, she gets a lot of women interested in weights and technology (I make my living in tech, so I like the latter myself as our industry has way too many men :)).

I think the fact that weight training is just one facet of her life is also important. It demonstrates pretty conclusively that one can train and still make time for a completely unrelated career + other duties in life.

[OITW]

Here's a video to blow away misconceptions with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K_qiq3Wbzc

Excellent example, although the form made me cringe (yes, I know max effort, form breakdown, etc.) But she's proof of the point that you don't have to be East German steroid-popping Olga to be strong and that strong muscles don't make a woman bulky.


Btw, I'm typing this at, my first pl meet ever, the Longhorn Usapl Open, where I'm crashing and burning. I've learned i should maybe be a bit less ambitious on my openers. :(

NO, absolutely not! Better to not succeed in the ring the first time, than never to enter at all. Pull up your socks and get on with it, you won't "crash and burn" the next time.

[alis]

Not all women need convincing. I was the first one who started SS and told my boyfriend to order the book & DVD and start doing the program too. He's been doing it for about 6-8 months and has had great progression.

Then again, I'm not like most women. We put our baby crib in the walk-in closet so that we could keep our squat rack, bar, and plates in the 2nd bedroom. Baby will benefit more from learning how to squat properly than having Daffy Duck stickers on the wall.