Reluctance to eat big

[coreJack]

Coach, you've seen it a million times - guys who don't want to eat big. And guys like Zach are good evidence to refute fears of getting fat.

But some of us do put on quite the belly while strength training - and we see it with our own eyes, so it's not an unfounded fear. And a belly on an otherwise skinny guy is none too attractive. Maybe what would offer us some comfort is accounts from guys who've gone through this - i.e., skinny guys who ate big, grew a big belly and had the associated skinny-fat look, but stuck to it and saw that belly shrink down as the weights went up and everything else grew, making the belly look smaller in comparison.

I know it must be happening to some extent - I look at guys like Mariusz Pudzianowski and I'm guessing he's not working to get abs, he probably just has them b/c it's hard to eat enough to feed his muscles, nevermind a surplus to get fat. But I'd love to hear about it from mere mortals.

[Mark Rippetoe]

If I remember correctly Jack, you're about 140. Why don't you just break down and do the program, quit wasting time with all this typing, and report back with your own experience after you have some? Bellies come off easier than legs get big.

[Craig B.]

The reality for me when I started lifting in my 30's was I ate like a hog, and yes, I got a little fat. It came of easily once I slowed down on the food. I gained over 60 pounds in two years (this is at in my 30's, remember?) and at least 40# were muscle...so, eat way too much for a while, gain the weight, lose the fat, keep the muscle. No other way. Accept it. You are here because what you have tried has not worked to the degree you would like. My friend Chip says it simply: Lift hard, eat hard, rest hard. Only one result possible.

[coreJack]

I'm in my mid-30s and have a history of injuries to my knees, shoulders and ankles that prevent me from doing the program. But I'm doing what I can and working toward being able to do the program. I started at 120lbs in January, so I am gaining, albeit not as fast as I hope to gain once I'm able to do the program.

Craig, thanks for posting that. That's what I figured, especially for guys a little older - we put on some fat and eventually that self-corrects. But it's great to hear it from those who've been through it.

[DaveR]

Hate to sound like a jerk, but mid-30's is not a "little older."

[Luke]

Coach, you've seen it a million times - guys who don't want to eat big. And guys like Zach are good evidence to refute fears of getting fat.

But some of us do put on quite the belly while strength training - and we see it with our own eyes, so it's not an unfounded fear. And a belly on an otherwise skinny guy is none too attractive. Maybe what would offer us some comfort is accounts from guys who've gone through this - i.e., skinny guys who ate big, grew a big belly and had the associated skinny-fat look, but stuck to it and saw that belly shrink down as the weights went up and everything else grew, making the belly look smaller in comparison.

I know it must be happening to some extent - I look at guys like Mariusz Pudzianowski and I'm guessing he's not working to get abs, he probably just has them b/c it's hard to eat enough to feed his muscles, nevermind a surplus to get fat. But I'd love to hear about it from mere mortals.

I'd been lean all my life but naturally with the training now I'm carrying around a bigger stomach, bigger backside and some mornings I look in the mirror and fear I'll have Alfred Hitchcock like jowls later in life. I get ribbed occasionally for the gains in unwanted places but the overall gains in strength and muscle have been too tremendous to be tainted by the emergence of a gut, and even any jesting hecklers acknowledge it too. Explain it to them. Eating is essential to training and beer is great.

I heard in the good coach's interview a few weeks back something along the lines of when it's time to cut down, there are ways of trimming down. It's no secret you need to have the material on board to work with first though. Eat, train, eat some more, sleep your body will do the rest, right?

[IlPrincipeBrutto]

Hi Jack,

I understand your worries. The key to overcome them is in your head, and nowhere else. In particular, the most important thing you can do is to consciously decide to accept becoming a bit fatter.

It's not an easy decision, especially if you are used to be skinny, and can show a six pack to the mirror when you stand in front of it. But it might be made easier if you accept that getting bigger makes getting stronger easier. Focus your mind on your strength, condition your mind to yearn for more strength, more power. Once you convince yourself that your main goal is to become stronger, it becomes far easier to accept putting on some belly. Actually, as you contemplate your lifts going up, the presence of a belly might become almost irrelevant.

To give a flavour of personal experience to my words, I am 6'', and until a few months ago I hovered around 165#. I am now 187, and I have a clear hint of a paunch at the front. But I have also put some meat on my shoulders, and my back is quite different from when I started. In absolute terms, my strength is laughable (270# for a deadlift). But compared to when I started, I'm a different person. And this fact alone makes me satisfied with what I have done to my body.
I am actually thinking that it would be nice to get to 200 pounds, just to feel how it is like to be that size.

Hope this helps,


IPB

[KSC]

My guess is that you are not getting as fat as you think you are. I run guys through SS all the time in their 30's and 40's.

The thing is that as you gain muscle mass, especially in the legs and ass, your metabolism will increase and accomodate the caloric intake.

Best prescription for you guys is Paleo + Milk. 4 Paleo meal per day plus GOMAD. IF you are convinced that you are turning into a tub of lard, try doing Protein shakes/Olive oil in place of GOMAD. Not the best option though for strength and size gains though.

Also, Mariusz probably has abs because he is genetically one of the strongest human beings to ever walk the face of the earth and is on more shit than your income and mine would be able to finance. He probably trains pretty fucking hard too. Not a good comparison for most of us on this board.

[coreJack]

Hate to sound like a jerk, but mid-30's is not a "little older."
I was only suggesting that the average 30-something guy is going to put on more fat than the average 21 yr old with the same training and caloric surplus. Doesn't mean they shouldn't train or that the fat is permanent.

I heard in the good coach's interview a few weeks back something along the lines of when it's time to cut down, there are ways of trimming down.
Oh, no doubt. I'd guess that most lifelong skinny guys realize that they can shed the fat pretty easily in a cut phase. I think in my case (and maybe other skinny guys too), we're used to decent abs making us look fit. When those are replaced by a belly and love handles, we look like skinny fat, totally out of shape guys - even with the added muscle, at the early stages, it isn't enough muscle to escape the skinny look. I guess we just have to stick with it and eventually we'll fill out, and the extra muscle will make the belly look smaller.

I understand your worries. The key to overcome them is in your head, and nowhere else. In particular, the most important thing you can do is to consciously decide to accept becoming a bit fatter.
Yeah, I think you're right. I was fine losing the abs, but I'm at the point where I need to buy new pants if my gut gets any bigger. Anyway, given the upcoming winter, now's a good time to get away with being a little fat.

My guess is that you are not getting as fat as you think you are. I run guys through SS all the time in their 30's and 40's.
Could be, KSC. At 120lbs, I wasn't used to any fat.


The thing is that as you gain muscle mass, especially in the legs and ass, your metabolism will increase and accomodate the caloric intake.
Yep, that's where the muscle gains have been concentrated. Yeah, I'll just trust that the increasing muscle mass will boost metabolism and visually offset the belly while I'm bulking.


Best prescription for you guys is Paleo + Milk. 4 Paleo meal per day plus GOMAD. IF you are convinced that you are turning into a tub of lard, try doing Protein shakes/Olive oil in place of GOMAD. Not the best option though for strength and size gains though.
Interesting suggestion. I'm sold on the benefits of whole milk, so if I decide to cut carbs it will be non-milk carbs.

Thanks for the feedback and ideas, guys.

[Sami]

Yeah, I think you're right. I was fine losing the abs, but I'm at the point where I need to buy new pants if my gut gets any bigger. Anyway, given the upcoming winter, now's a good time to get away with being a little fat.

I don't think anybody can wear pre-SS pants after about 2 months. If they do fit, you're doing it wrong.

[JB52]

I had the same fears as you Jack until I decided that strength was going to be the #1 priority since I was so weak. I had a six-pack the past three years at 5'10 145lbs ad prided myself on it, but was pathetically weak. This summer I lost 15lbs somehow, yea weird, I was not trying to. Between losing alot of strength due to the weight loss and my dad telling me I looked like a long distance runner (the exact opposite of what I want to be), I said screw the six-pack, I want some muscles.

Started SS mid-late September and have gained 25lbs so far. Yea I've gained some fat, but it's impossible not to. At first I had the skinny fat look going, but after about 5-6 weeks, when the weight got really heavy for me, I began filling out and the look went away. Like KSC said, much of it goes to the legs and ass, but my upper body has gotten big too (for how big you can be at 155lbs). When the weight gets heavy, you will not care about the fat gain and you will make sure to eat more than enough so you are recovered for the next workout and will not fail any reps (happened to me).

My six-pack has become a very soft four pack, but the strength gains are worth it. I also learned that my form for the squat, deadlift, and clean wre not that good, so now I am lifting weights for 5 reps with good frm that were my old 1RM with bad form, it's cool to see such progress. My jeans have become pretty tight, so I've been sticking to sweatpants and gym pants. It's winter, gain some weight and if you want to cut, do it in the spring before summer hits.

Remember, a skinny weak dude with a six-pack is unattractive (think 90s small, I used to believe in it), girls want strong dudes. So eat, sleep, and squat; repeat as necessary.

[Tiburon]

I don't think anybody can wear pre-SS pants after about 2 months. If they do fit, you're doing it wrong.

Haha, this should definitely be a warning in the book. I had to drop a few hundred bucks after 6 weeks on new pants and dress shirts. Just send Rip the bill.

[LarsM]

Haha, this should definitely be a warning in the book. I had to drop a few hundred bucks after 6 weeks on new pants and dress shirts. Just send Rip the bill.
And to think Rip says the only expensive thing you need to buy for doing SS is a pair of decent shoes.

[banthafodder]

Haha, this should definitely be a warning in the book. I had to drop a few hundred bucks after 6 weeks on new pants and dress shirts. Just send Rip the bill.

Or consider it the training fee. Then the new clothes are free :cool:

[Christopher]

Same here, my legs no longer fit into any of my pants. All I have left is the one pair with the too-big waist from when I was fat. :)

Shirts though just look better now that they're filled out.

[klir_2m]

My experience with strength training and eating big has convinced me that getting fat is a long slow process. You will not get fat in a month of eating big - I mean REALLY big - if you're training heavy. I've been eating 6-8k calories a day, which should have me gaining at least 5 lbs of fat per week if you believe what everyone says on the net about weight gain. Instead I'm gaining about 2 lbs per week after the initial, much larger gain in the first week.

I don't know if it's any different for sedentary individuals. Maybe the heavy training partitions calories such that fat gain is much lower than expected. Whatever the case, you simply will not get "fat" any time soon if you're following the program.

True though, I can't fit into some of my old pants anymore. My legs just won't fit, even one pair that's relaxed fit.

[DaveR]

I was only suggesting that the average 30-something guy is going to put on more fat than the average 21 yr old with the same training and caloric surplus. Doesn't mean they shouldn't train or that the fat is permanent.


And I am suggesting that the differences between a 21 yr old and a 30-something guy - in respect to this discussion - are barely worth the energy it is taking me to type this. I am also suggesting that some of the difficulties you are having might have a lot to do with you believing it does. Again, I am really not trying to sound like a jerk, but I just see so many guys place these types of limitations on themselves.

[Bootsy]

I started stalling about a month in and took the obvious advice and started eating a lot more. I'm already a little heavy so I tried to do Paleo instead of GOMAD. I get about 3 regular portions of whatever meat they're serving at the chow hall, along with some kind of green vegetable, and I pack it away as quickly as possible. I've been eating 5 boiled eggs and cereal with a half liter of milk for breakfast and I'm probably still not eating enough. Progression picked back up and shows no sign of stopping, even on the press, which seems to get the most complaints here. (Hint - keep it close)

Moral of the story: if you stall on your progression within months of starting, you're probably not eating enough.

The uniforms I deployed with now fit like 'hot pants' and the leg holes on my boxers aren't large enough to accommodate my Thunder Thighs.

[DeepBlue]

I don't think anybody can wear pre-SS pants after about 2 months. If they do fit, you're doing it wrong.

I've only been doing SS (variation) for just over 2 weeks.

I'm on the road, working abroad. The second pair of jeans I brought barely fit over my ass, let alone button up. The same for the second pair of work trousers (Brit). Some of the t-shirts I brought that used to fit OK, are now tight, and not (only) around the belly.

Sure I've added inchs to the belly/waist. I have no callipers, but pinch suggests I've not put on that much body fat. (Probably 2-3lbs of the 11lbs I've added in 2 weeks).

AND I know I'm not eating enough. Big breakfasts are saving me from major stalling. Milk when I can get it: mini-bar fridge in hotel only has enough space for 1 gallon, and they don't *do* milk, or convenience stores in this country!

I can't wait for my next assignment in Aus, where there will be steak and milk in my fridge 24/7, and some good CF affiliates.

And that's why I'm scared to buy new pants and tshirts here now!!! :D