Anyone switched from flat shoes to heels?

[zepled37]

For as long as I can remember, I've always felt comfortable squatting in flat shoes. I see Rip recommends a small heel (Rogue shoes) and my Chuck's are about worn out and I'm in need of a new pair of lifting shoes.

Honestly, I'm a little worried about switching to something with a heel and how that might affect my form and joints (and strength), but maybe it would be better in the long run. I'd really rather not spend $100+ on shoes that might not work out for me either.

Looking for thoughts from those that may have switched from flat to heeled lifting shoes.

Thanks.

[Gary Gibson]

I used to worry that a heel would be all wrong. Now I won't squat without one.

People think that since a flat foot is how you would squat "in nature", it's somehow the best choice for squatting with a loaded barbell across your rear delts. Tain't necessarily so.

Try this. Put a block under your toes and squat. You won't get much depth.

Try it flat foot. Much easier. But it's still more of a good morning and the stress goes to your posterior chain at the expense of your quads.

Put a block under your heels and getting depth becomes even easier. Plus the stress is more evenly distributed between PC and quads.

Use too much elevation under your heels, however, and the movement becomes like a high bar squat with all the stress on the quads with the knees getting farther out over the toes.

My point is that a slight heel is really ideal for getting depth and distributing the load between the glutes/hams and quads. Just like Rip has already said.

[BryanM]

You know, that makes an ocean of sense.

I'mma going to try using my ninja combat boots for a week and I'll get back to you.

[tennisgod]

I would love to get a pair of Rogues, but I live in Australia and have a slightly weird foot where I could take from 11 to 12 in different shoes, so I'm loathe to order online without trying on a pair.
Of course, I could just order a 12 and wear big socks...

[brobinson]

@ tennisgod

I bought some Do-win's a while back (the same company that makes Rogue's and other re-branded lifting shoes).

I usually wear a 13 shoe but ended up with a 12 Do-win. Maybe others can chime in if they have any input, but in my case the size down was a much better fit, with room to spare.

And to the original question, yes the lifting shoes make a hell of a difference. Obvious from the second you unrack the barbell with a load on your back.

[RobertFontaine]

I think the trick is to find a conservative heel. Some of the squat shoes have a pretty aggressive heel.

[h k]

Without weightlifting heels I have no chance of getting depth with proper form. Sure I can squat with flat soles, but I always end up in a good morning like movement. They're generally good for powerlifting for other reasons aswell, for example you can arch your back better with heels, at least according to my experience and my fellow trainers.
Also doing the olympic lifts is a bit hard without them.

[zepled37]

Anyone tried the Sambas? I've seen them recommended before as possible weight training shoes. Do they have any heel? A bit cheaper to try out maybe.

[JLascek]

I'd recommend having a bit of heel to squat in. Mechanically it will allow for more quadriceps involvement. Like Fontaine said, a conservative heel is going to be preferable to a large one (Do-Wins typically have a tall heel). VS Athletics' shoes aren't too bad (I use them), but you can find some that are lower. A half inch to an inch will be fine, anything more and it is just a shoe that is made for the conventional starting position in weightlifting.

[BryanM]

Okay, tentative results, as always my opinion may change wildly as I discover everything I do is bad and wrong:

Squat

The heel helps a lot in getting my knees forward early, so the descent is more firmly like sitting into the biceps femorises, instead of hanging off the quadriceps. For inflexible bastards like myself, I would say this is practically mandatory, and I won't squat even unweighted without it now.

Deadlift

The deadlift actually feels harder. It might be due to a strength imbalance in my legs (which now have to move an extra two or three torturous centimeters). Or maybe because my heart feels like it's going to explode thanks to a combination of the added fat in my diet and plummeting temperatures.

Press

I have to do a partial front squat to start this poop, so I suppose it is beneficial. First time I tried it, had some trouble with keeping my balance at the top of the lift, but have long since overcome that.

Bench Press

My feet can now touch the floor while on the bench. That's pretty nice.

[Kincain]

I also changed from using chuck taylors to the adidas ironworks III shoes. I think it is great, because I think the weightlifting shoes give better stability than the chuckies, because of the semi-flexible heal. I thought it would make the squat easier, well it didn't, granted that it wasn't my goal to get a higher PR because of the shoes but it helped in order to get better below your parallel. So if I could give you an advice get some they are a great investment.

this could be of interest to you, but you might probably have read it: http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Weightlifting/WeightliftingShoes.html

[bugbomb]

Press

I have to do a partial front squat to start this poop, so I suppose it is beneficial. First time I tried it, had some trouble with keeping my balance at the top of the lift, but have long since overcome that.

What do you mean?

[BryanM]

The very back of the heel of my boot is above the ground so it was possible to rock backward.

Or the bar on the rack is five inches below my shoulders while standing, so getting my knees forward while unracking this tragedy is necessary. Depending on what you mean.

[ZKP]

You know, that makes an ocean of sense.

I'mma going to try using my ninja combat boots for a week and I'll get back to you.

Where do I get a pair of Ninja Combat boots? Do I have to join a clan? Is this a Dragon Door product?

Thanks, ZKP

[poopmonkey]

I heard squatting in heels will make your ass grow bigger.

Just sayin', that's what I heard...

[BryanM]

Where do I get a pair of Ninja Combat boots? Do I have to join a clan? Is this a Dragon Door product?
The military gave me some satan boots that were too tight and gave me an ingrown toenail (a fun (bland, boring) story in itself) so I had to purchase mine at AAFES or whatever it's called.

You might want to ask this guy where he got his:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/features/comic-con-2009-photo-stream/comiccon_790screen127.jpg

(But his heel does seem flat here, so uh....)

[kittenSmash]

I switched from flat soled to some Rogue Do-Wins. I believe they are between a .625 and .750 heel heighth, can't recall exactly. I love them, wouldn't go back. I ordered a half size smaller than my other shoes, and they fit great.
The deadlift felt wierd the first couple times, but now it's fine. All the other lifts felt better immediatly. I got a pair of Sambas too, but definitely prefer my lifting shoes. Sambas are just comfy for lounging around.

[zepled37]

I really need to make a decision soon as the chuck's are fading fast...I tried a pair of samba's on at the store and doesn't seem like a heel there so that's a no go. really don't want much of a heel, just a little bitty one...haha.

anyway, i read that the new rogue shoes were only supposed to have a half inch heel. are they really out and available yet?

i don't have any trouble getting into a full squat with flat shoes, but perhaps making it easier would make my hip feel better. also i could probably use a tad more quad involvement in the squat.

[msingh]

Has anyone gone from squatting barefoot to squatting with squatting shoes? What difference did it make?

[knox]

Has anyone gone from squatting barefoot to squatting with squatting shoes? What difference did it make?

http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=7330

[python2705]

Poopmonkey,

That girl needs the bar just a few inches lower.

[msingh]

http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=7330

yes im familiar with rips views. he runs a gym after all, what's good for running a gym is not necessarily a reason to do something a certain way. i train at home with my own equipment, i dont care about dropping plates on my feet or bleeding because that wont fuckin happen anyway, and if it does, a flimsy shoe isnt going to help much..

[BryanM]

Whatever spiritual oneness with the Earth being barefoot gave me in the deadlift, it wasn't translating to the squat.

[knox]

yes im familiar with rips views. he runs a gym after all, what's good for running a gym is not necessarily a reason to do something a certain way. i train at home with my own equipment, i dont care about dropping plates on my feet or bleeding because that wont fuckin happen anyway, and if it does, a flimsy shoe isnt going to help much..

You didn't read past the second post.

Post #4: "Besides making a mess if there's an accident, what are the reasons for not lifting barefoot?"

Post #5 (Rip): "The stability provided by WL shoes is the major issue. They provide a non-compressible heel and side-to-side stability with the metatarsal straps. I have not seen the new Vibram strapped version, but they cannot provide the support that a WL shoes does because they lack the mass."

[msingh]

You didn't read past the second post.

Post #5 (Rip): "The stability provided by WL shoes is the major issue. They provide a non-compressible heel and side-to-side stability with the metatarsal straps. I have not seen the new Vibram strapped version, but they cannot provide the support that a WL shoes does because they lack the mass."

No bro i've read that before. Coach is talking about vibrams there but tell me what's more incompressible than the naked human heel??

[knox]

No bro i've read that before. Coach is talking about vibrams there but tell me what's more incompressible than the naked human heel??

I get the feeling you don't know what Vibrams are.

Also: There are a lot of things more incompressible than the skin, muscles, ligaments, and fascia of the feet.

[poopmonkey]

@msingh.

Sounds like you've already made up your mind that you're not going to wear shoes.

So fine. Don't wear the fuckin' shoes then.

Personally, I think the key issue would be grip on the floor. The bottom of your feet can get sweaty and it's easily conceivable that this would lead to a loss of traction and possibly some slippage with a shitload of weight on your back. This would be bad.

[Mr.City]

I own a pair of Chucks, and they're in good shape, however I'm very tempted to get a pair of WL shoes. I know they improve the squat, but how they affected the deadlift? I've seen differing reports.

[Gary Gibson]

i dont care about dropping plates on my feet or bleeding because that wont fuckin happen anyway, and if it does, a flimsy shoe isnt going to help much..

Actually, even a "flimsy" piece of material will dissipate the energy of a falling object over a larger surface area. It will turn a piercing/cutting blow into a blunt force one. Your foot will still hurt, but there is less likely to be a laceration.

I experienced this yesterday. I'm training at home for a couple of weeks with ignored moves. All I have is a curl bar with spin collars. Spin collars are much heavier and denser than spring collars. I drop one on my bare feet and it broke some skin. Didn't bleed much, but now I have this annoying cut. Would've just bounced off had I been wearing shoes.

Will shoes keep a 45-lb plate dropped from 2 meters from breaking your foot. No. But shoes will help spread the energy over a larger surface area before it gets to your foot. This will prevent puncturing and bleeding, even if it doesn't prevent bone fracture.

(Same thing with bulletproof vests. Kevlar spreads the energy around and prevents the bullet form puncturing your body, but you still get some concussive force that can break bones.)

[misspelledgeoff]

you must be an IGx lurker. at least that's where i first saw Coco.


I heard squatting in heels will make your ass grow bigger.

Just sayin', that's what I heard...

[poopmonkey]

Don't know what IGx is.

I just appreciate a big juicy ass.

[blowdpanis]

You didn't read past the second post.

Post #4: "Besides making a mess if there's an accident, what are the reasons for not lifting barefoot?"

Post #5 (Rip): "The stability provided by WL shoes is the major issue. They provide a non-compressible heel and side-to-side stability with the metatarsal straps. I have not seen the new Vibram strapped version, but they cannot provide the support that a WL shoes does because they lack the mass."

This is a hard sell for me, because I have both, and actually feel arguably more stable in the Vibram's than the weightlifting shoes. My recent PR's were set in Vibram's, in fact.

The reason being (my guess) that most shoes tend to compress the forefoot, i.e. squish the toes together. After getting used to Vibram's, you have a "toes spread out" feeling that seems rather conducive to stability, at least based on having used both quite a bit at this point.