Check Squat Technique

[staypuft]

Mr. Rippetoe, Could I get you to check my squat technique? I have tried to follow your direction in SS, but could use some feedback. Unfortunately I have to lift at the local YMCA and there is not one competent trainer there to ask, unless of course you are looking to do curls with pink dumbbells standing on half a rubber ball, and that’s just not my thing. I am 39 and started a 5x5 program in October and now have switched to your 3x5. I am now at 215# with my squats having started with an empty bar in Oct. I feel I am not yet close to a stall. I was concerned I may have a problem with technique when about 3 weeks ago my quads on both legs especially right above the knee seemed to be staying sore. They seem to feel best half way into my sets and feel ok until sometime the next day. Thanks for any feedback you have time for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD69VbB29yk

[Sami]

Well Rip has transferred your video to the main Training Discussion forum, which likely means either there are some very obvious common errors taking place, or he can't be fucked. Probably both.

Anyway, your knees are sliding forward, sometimes for the duration of the descent, but especially at the bottom of the squat. They should move to about just past your toes (TUBOW) in the first 1/3 of the descent, then stay there until the last 1/3 of the ascent.

And you seem to lack hip drive.

[nisora33]

What Sami said. And I like to see a great big "fish gulp" of air taken in right before the descent. This breath should lift the chest UP, UP, which means the upper back will have tightened. This should of course be accompanied by the elbows staying squeezed the fuck up. Drill it into your noggin.

-Stacey

[nisora33]

While you're focusing on getting your knees forward sooner and keeping them there, like Sami said, you should also think about pushing your knees out to the sides, you know, like it says in a certain book that I remember seeing lying around here somewhere. Hmmmmm...

[Nauticus]

First of all, your elbows need to be at a 12 degree higher angle relative to the floor. You're taking too many steps back, as well. Also, I see the slightest hint of buttwink - this can only worsen. Deload by 50 pounds and fix this. At 29 seconds in, you look as if you are beginning a good morning, but then drop clumsily down into a squat. Unacceptable. It must be one fluid motion. You also hit the barbell on the hooks walking back in - this means you need to lower the hooks to three placements lower.

Heh, just kidding.. don't hurt me, please, guys. Your knees are coming forward at the bottom, and that's all I see that's glaringly wrong.

[nisora33]

First of all, your elbows need to be at a 12 degree higher angle relative to the floor. You're taking too many steps back, as well. Also, I see the slightest hint of buttwink - this can only worsen. Deload by 50 pounds and fix this. At 29 seconds in, you look as if you are beginning a good morning, but then drop clumsily down into a squat. Unacceptable. It must be one fluid motion. You also hit the barbell on the hooks walking back in - this means you need to lower the hooks to three placements lower.

Heh, just kidding.. don't hurt me, please, guys. Your knees are coming forward at the bottom, and that's all I see that's glaringly wrong.

All of this should take place exactly 1 min. 30 sec before the stroke of midnight and 1 min. following the ceremonial lighting of the squat candles.

[Steve in ATL]

All of this should take place exactly 1 min. 30 sec before the stroke of midnight and 1 min. following the ceremonial lighting of the squat candles.

But first he must bring us a shrubbery.

[Sami]

The barbell was 1.43mm too high and at a 0.43 degree angle to the right. You should've taken exactly 3 breaths before unracking and a further 3 breaths before your first rep. Then 1.5 breaths between reps. Make sure that each breath is only 2.7 seconds in duration. That is key.

Your nose should also create an exact 45 degree angle with the floor. Exactly.

[staypuft]

OK, I thought I might find some usable critique on this forum from some grown men who might want to help a guy learn. I will seek help elsewhere. I will go back to the book and read again. Thanks

[mrflibble]

OK, I thought I might find some usable critique on this forum

And you don't think the first 3 replies count?

[Webbie]

It's your knees man! Read each of those comments again. The answers are right there. Easy fix, you're close.

[staypuft]

i found some previous post from Mr.Rippetoe on knees forward with some good tips and I will work on that, thanks.

[Smiler Grogan]

Don't take it too hard, OP.

"Ockham's razor (also spelled Occam's razor, pronounced AHK-uhmz RAY-zuhr) is the idea that, in trying to understand something, getting unnecessary information out of the way is the fastest way to the truth or to the best explanation." (At least in the non-scientific layman's interpretation.)

Well done, gentlemen. This young man should have his knees in order post-haste.

[Nauticus]

OK, I thought I might find some usable critique on this forum from some grown men who might want to help a guy learn. I will seek help elsewhere. I will go back to the book and read again. Thanks

Ha.. what's funny is that by going elsewhere, you'll probably receive advice like mine - except it won't be facetious. These forums are your best bet for getting advice that isn't nitpicking.

[Bergie]

OK, I thought I might find some usable critique on this forum from some grown men who might want to help a guy learn. I will seek help elsewhere. I will go back to the book and read again. Thanks


In the immortal words of Sergent Hulka, Lighten up Frances!

[Smiler Grogan]

Ha.. what's funny is that by going elsewhere, you'll probably receive advice like mine - except it won't be facetious. These forums are your best bet for getting advice that isn't nitpicking.
This. True dat.

[pauld]

But I do think some posters are still expecting you to bring a shrubbery as payment...

[staypuft]

Yes, you jack asses. I am looking for for Roger the shubber now, to bring you a shrubbery that looks nice and is not too expensive.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Of all the things to ask for, a shrubbery ranks real low. How about tequila or whiskey, steak wrapped in bacon or hell, a hot chick.

You guys have some messed up priorities, all Monty Python references aside.

[nisora33]

How about tequila or whiskey, steak wrapped in bacon or hell, a hot chick.

Or lard.

-s.

[banthafodder]

steak wrapped in bacon or hell,

Delicious and evil.

[pauld]

In that case please send me a hot chick wrapped in bacon.

[Steve in ATL]

In that case please send me a hot chick wrapped in bacon.
If I did that, I'd have one less hot chick wrapped in bacon, and no discernible benefit. Not even a shrubbery.

[Smiler Grogan]

The compromise might be to loan a bacon-wrapped hottie for a shrubbery delivery, or perhaps a planting since it's nice when they bend over. But there should never be any giving. IMHO.

[staypuft]

Went back to the book, took some weight off the bar and worked on form. Adductors are sore, that has got to be a good sign that my form is tightening up. Thoughts?

[Nauticus]

Went back to the book, took some weight off the bar and worked on form. Adductors are sore, that has got to be a good sign that my form is tightening up. Thoughts?

Yes, it likely is. Aside from shoving your knees out causing adductors to be used, doing so also helps you achieve a better depth and stretch reflex.

[staypuft]

I think I fixed my knees forward issue. I can really feel the squats the next day in my adductors and glutes, where before I was not, but now I have a different issue my hip drive out of the bottom. My hips seem to rise faster than my shoulders. I know that's bad from page 18 in SS but unsure what is the common cause of that. Thoughts?

Thanks

[mcsquared]

As I understand hip-drive, when you're "in the hole" just think about driving your hips up out of the hole, not forward. Dont even think about your shoulders, focus on your hips.

[Gary Gibson]

As I understand hip-drive, when you're "in the hole" just think about driving your hips up out of the hole, not forward. Dont even think about your shoulders, focus on your hips.

Hip drive alone works till things get really heavy. Back angle will tend to deteriorate the closer you get to 1RM unless you also drive the bar into the traps. This is why powerlifters use this cue.

I'm using very light loads for lots of volume for the next few days. I'm amazed at how much I DON'T have to think about trap drive. My back angle is easy to maintain with light weight and I can focus on driving with the hips as long as I stay tight in my midsection. This becomes less true as the weight gets heavier.

Edit: NOTWITHSTANDING variances in placement of tendon attachments and resulting leverage advantages, neural drive, practice with and propensity for a given movement pattern and other vagaries that impact how much weight can be moved. These things matter more and more the closer together competitors are in height, strength and relative amounts of lean tissue.

[staypuft]

Hip drive alone works till things get really heavy. Back angle will tend to deteriorate the closer you get to 1RM unless you also drive the bar into the traps. This is why powerlifters use this cue.

I'm using very light loads for lots of volume for the next few days. I'm amazed at how much I DON'T have to think about trap drive. My back angle is easy to maintain with light weight and I can focus on driving with the hips as long as I stay tight in my midsection. This becomes less true as the weight gets heavier.


I will try and use the drive the bar into the traps cue as well as the hip drive. Thanks for the good info.

[Gary Gibson]

I will try and use the drive the bar into the traps cue as well as the hip drive. Thanks for the good info.

No prob. And I'd recommend you use BOTH. Come up with hip drive right after the bounce off the hamstring attachments once you've hit depth, but before your back angle changes too much start pushing with the traps too.

This goes against how Rip coaches his novices, but as I'm so fond of saying, things change as you get stronger. You may want to mix in a little advice from powerlifters and that advice is to drive the traps into/against bar. I'd keep Rip's recommended hip drive in there too and try to make both work for me (in fact, that's exactly what I do).