Training Frequency for O-Lifts

[Platus]

Hi Charles,

I am a few months into Starting Strength, but I am finding that I really enjoy the O-lifts. I am making progress on power cleans and power snatches in terms of adding weight to the bar each week. However, on SS they only get trained once every week and a half. My lay research indicates that this is probably not frequent enough to build much technical proficiency in the O-lifts.

Could you give me some idea of what kind of frequency is typically required to build and maintain technical skill in these lifts?

[brittf]

Hi Charles.

I would like to tag onto this question as well. The literature seems to suggest that since the O-lifts don't have much focus on the eccentric movement, they can and should be performed more frequently. In fact, it seems that it is entirely possible to train the same lifts for several days in a row (unlike in the slow lifts) as long as the "emphasis" changes each day.

Do you find this to be true, especially as a masters lifter?

Regards,
brittf

[Charles Staley]

I'm sure the SS program assumes that your skills are stable. If not, the higher the frequency, the better. One thing you could do is to start each SS workout with some O-lift practice- use this as a dynsmic warm-up for the rest of thew workout.


Hi Charles,

I am a few months into Starting Strength, but I am finding that I really enjoy the O-lifts. I am making progress on power cleans and power snatches in terms of adding weight to the bar each week. However, on SS they only get trained once every week and a half. My lay research indicates that this is probably not frequent enough to build much technical proficiency in the O-lifts.

Could you give me some idea of what kind of frequency is typically required to build and maintain technical skill in these lifts?

[Charles Staley]

For me currently, I perform full snatches, full C&J's and back squats on Mondays and Thursdays. On Wednesdays, I focus on jerk strength/skill, as the jerk is my weakest lift— jerk supports, jerks from the rack, push presses, and chins. My 4th day (Saturdays) is a "pick up" days where I try to focus on upper body (generally horizontal pulling & pushing), bus sometimes work power cleans and/or posterior chain stuff also, depending on how I feel.

The rationale for this schedule is that 1) my skills are stable (not perfect mind you) and 2) if I train knee-intensive drills more than 2x/wk, my knees tend to develop tendonitis.

The reason many people can train O-lifts more frequently than say power lifts does involve the lack of eccentric stress, but the entire nature of the lifts is very different: as hard as a very heavy C&J may be, it doesn't take the same toll as a very heavy dead for example. Unless you C&J 500lbs maybe, but I haven't personally had that experience!


Hi Charles.

I would like to tag onto this question as well. The literature seems to suggest that since the O-lifts don't have much focus on the eccentric movement, they can and should be performed more frequently. In fact, it seems that it is entirely possible to train the same lifts for several days in a row (unlike in the slow lifts) as long as the "emphasis" changes each day.

Do you find this to be true, especially as a masters lifter?

Regards,
brittf

[brittf]

For me currently, I perform full snatches, full C&J's and back squats on Mondays and Thursdays. On Wednesdays, I focus on jerk strength/skill, as the jerk is my weakest lift— jerk supports, jerks from the rack, push presses, and chins. My 4th day (Saturdays) is a "pick up" days where I try to focus on upper body (generally horizontal pulling & pushing), bus sometimes work power cleans and/or posterior chain stuff also, depending on how I feel.

The rationale for this schedule is that 1) my skills are stable (not perfect mind you) and 2) if I train knee-intensive drills more than 2x/wk, my knees tend to develop tendonitis.

The reason many people can train O-lifts more frequently than say power lifts does involve the lack of eccentric stress, but the entire nature of the lifts is very different: as hard as a very heavy C&J may be, it doesn't take the same toll as a very heavy dead for example. Unless you C&J 500lbs maybe, but I haven't personally had that experience!

Hi Charles.

I still have some more work to do on my technique. I have a bum right knee at times, but I TRY to do some kind of "leg" work 3 times per week. I consider squat cleans "leg work" in my vocabulary :).

My jerk is a weakness also. I can clean a good 20 kg more than I can jerk. Heck, for that matter, I can only jerk about 10 kg more than I can Press!!!! I just don't seem to get the knack of jumping with my legs, pushing the bar up with my delts, and then dropping under the bar to catch it. Time for some professional O-lift coaching :).

Unfortunately, I too have not had the experience of a 500 lb C&J (or a 400 or 300 lb either!!!! :)).

I find that I DO NOT LIKE to perform Back Squats on the same day that I do any kind of Front Squat (including Squat Cleans). As Mark says, the cues are different and I find that my back is too vertical and I lose "hip drive" on the Back Squat if I have done any type of Front Squat earlier in the workout.

As a result, I have an ABABAB type workout (as you have promoted in your writings), where A = Slow Lift Focus w/Back Squats and B = O-lift Focus w/Front Squats. So, some weeks I get in 2 O-lift training sessions and other weeks only 1. On the A days, I try to start with either Jerk practice or Split Snatch practice since they don't require a version of a Front Squat. I am forced to Split Snatch because I can't seem to get my shoulder flexibility good enough to hold an overhead squat position. I have a similar problem with my jerk (probably part of what limits me) but at least I can get the bar "legally" over my head...

Regards,
brittf

[Platus]

One thing you could do is to start each SS workout with some O-lift practice- use this as a dynsmic warm-up for the rest of thew workout.Thanks Charles - I have actually started doing this in the last couple of weeks. I have found that a full snatch with the empty bar gets my blood pumping faster than a back squat with the empty bar, so I've been doing a few sets of 3 reps before starting my back squat warmups for SS. I think, then, that I'll experiment with starting or ending each SS session with lightweight snatches and cleans.

That way, every 10 days, I'll get 2-3 low intensity (40-50% of 1RM) rounds of practice on form and 1 heavy session of 5 sets of 3 (or sets of 2 if the weight impedes good form on sets across). If the volume seems to be too much, I'll dial it back at a later time.