Oh noes!!!

[nisora33]

WARNING: 'bout to get my troll on.

Looks like "paleo" man ate processed grains, bitches! Watcha gonna do now?

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/12/17/tech-archaeology-grain-africa-cave.html

The grains of sorghum starch on the stone grinders and scrapers show that wild grain was brought into the cave and processed for food, Mercader said.

So enjoy some damn processed grains with your bacon while you weep.

Maybe this'll cheer some of you up, accurate depiction of a PALEO WOMAN:
http://www.liftingrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/paleo-diet.jpg

[Euclid]

Awesome, I'm eating Funfetti cookies as I type.

[imnotbncre8ive]

Interesting... I wonder how prevalent this practice was. Was it isolated to that particular region or not? I'd like to hear more when the researchers find it.

Haha, paleo woman. I wonder how much hairier they were...

[tnumrych]

I first read The Paleo Diet for Athletes and then followed it up with Micheal Pollan's Omnivore's Dillemma and In Defense of Food. Three great books on a very important subject. After reading Paleo Diet I became a "grain hater" for a while then I read Pollan's books and changed my outlook on grains a bit. I still think CHO reduction is the best fat-loss nutritional policy.

Not sure where I wanted to go with that. I've worked the past three nights. Either case, all three books are recommended.

[nisora33]

I first read The Paleo Diet for Athletes and then followed it up with Micheal Pollan's Omnivore's Dillemma and In Defense of Food. Three great books on a very important subject. After reading Paleo Diet I became a "grain hater" for a while then I read Pollan's books and changed my outlook on grains a bit. I still think CHO reduction is the best fat-loss nutritional policy.

Not sure where I wanted to go with that. I've worked the past three nights. Either case, all three books are recommended.

A "book report" I did a couple of nights ago on carbs and insulin:

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showpost.php?p=85801&postcount=29

[nisora33]

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/12/17/tech-archaeology-grain-africa-cave.html

The grains of sorghum starch on the stone grinders and scrapers show that wild grain was brought into the cave and processed for food, Mercader said.
]

I bet those guys were the only fat fuckin' paleo men and women in history.

[tnumrych]

Nice post Stacey.

Could someone fill me in on Lyle McDonalds' background? Biochemist? Nutritonist? Concerned Citizen?

[tnumrych]

I would also highly recommend Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's book "The Great Cholesterol Con" to those who fear eggs/cholesterol/whole milk. A very good eye opening book on the topics that drive our national cholesterol-phobic and statin-loving attitude.

It can be had from Amazon for under $10. Valuable read for anyone interested on the topic of eating. And that should be everyone.

[nisora33]

I would also highly recommend Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's book "The Great Cholesterol Con" to those who fear eggs/cholesterol/whole milk. A very good eye opening book on the topics that drive our national cholesterol-phobic and statin-loving attitude.

It can be had from Amazon for under $10. Valuable read for anyone interested on the topic of eating. And that should be everyone.

I agree that there's been too much fear-mongering over cholesterol in food for too long. Taubes' just happened to err too far the other direction, when the middle is probably about where most people need to be.

[StrongIslander,NY]

Paleo diet? i googled and found the sight. there are a half dozen books on paleo diet. all of em or which one specifically

[tnumrych]

Paleo diet? i googled and found the sight. there are a half dozen books on paleo diet. all of em or which one specifically

Preferably the ones by Loren Cordain. I believe he is the originator and has studied it extensively (someone correct me if I'm wrong), and the only one to write one dealing specifically with the athletic population, although not of the kind on the anaerobic side of the street.


I agree that there's been too much fear-mongering over cholesterol in food for too long. Taubes' just happened to err too far the other direction, when the middle is probably about where most people need to be.

Funny, I've never even read Taubes. Although I'm pretty sure I'm aware of his view via proxy. I totally agree Stacey, that's why Pollan's books speak such volumes IMHO. Replace overly-processed food with actual food and things take care of themselves. My college nutrition and metabolism courses both made me wary of the cholesterol-phobia but Kendrick's book was the proverbial nail in the coffin.

[nisora33]

Replace overly-processed food with actual food and things take care of themselves. My college nutrition and metabolism courses both made me wary of the cholesterol-phobia but Kendrick's book was the proverbial nail in the coffin.

Yeah, its difficult to overeat whole, unprocessed foods, because of increased satiety and the bulkiness of the food (slower gastric-emptying, feeling fuller sooner). Carbs aren't the devil, there's really no "magic" to them per se, but they sure do make it easier to overfeed more at one sitting, and to very quickly feel like doing it again.

[cycomiko]

Nice post Stacey.

Could someone fill me in on Lyle McDonalds' background? Biochemist? Nutritonist? Concerned Citizen?

kinesiology

[Smack]

The problem with 'paleo' diets is that they are based entirely on speculation and assumption. There is simply absolutely no evidence to suggest that early man's diet did not include grains in at least limited amounts.

[Webbie]

http://robbwolf.com/

Tons of empirical stories based on Paleo type diets in this blog. Just treat it as more reading material in case you haven't come across it yet. I find it interesting how many people have seemed to cure type 2 diabetic symptoms with this diet.

I agree that is debatable exactly when grains entered man's diet. It is also debatable how old the Earth is. It's also debatable how big the universe is and how fast it is currently expanding. If you have blood chemistry issues... Robb Wolf has something that works for at least some of the population.

[cycomiko]

IF you go to the site of most diet 'gurus' you find that all of them have something that works for at least some of the population.

[imnotbncre8ive]

The problem with 'paleo' diets is that they are based entirely on speculation and assumption. There is simply absolutely no evidence to suggest that early man's diet did not include grains in at least limited amounts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Paleo diet promoters ever asserted that early humans ate *no* grains. They only assert that processed grains were very limited and not a significant portion of the diet. Hmm.. I should of spent as much time reading The Paleo Diet as I did SS+PP.

On another note, I was very disappointed about the Paleo Diet for Athletes. More appropriately named Paleo Diet for *Endurance* Athletes.

[Smack]

http://robbwolf.com/

Tons of empirical stories based on Paleo type diets in this blog. Just treat it as more reading material in case you haven't come across it yet. I find it interesting how many people have seemed to cure type 2 diabetic symptoms with this diet.

Yes, losing weight can reverse the symptoms of type II diabetes and yes, a lower carb diet is easier for many to lose weight on. Who'd have thought that totally removing a whole macronutrient from the diet leads to a lower overall calorie consumption?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Paleo diet promoters ever asserted that early humans ate *no* grains. They only assert that processed grains were very limited and not a significant portion of the diet. Hmm.. I should of spent as much time reading The Paleo Diet as I did SS+PP.

On another note, I was very disappointed about the Paleo Diet for Athletes. More appropriately named Paleo Diet for *Endurance* Athletes.

Paleo diet promoters are not a uniform body that all assert the same things.

[nisora33]

As with many things, the Paleo debate isn't as "black-and-white" as all parties would like to believe:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/static-stretching-and-refined-grain-intake-by-paleo-man-research-review.html

[tnumrych]

Loren Cordain issued an official statement regarding the latest findings via his email newsletter today.


Dr. Cordain was recently asked to comment on the articles
entitled "Mozambican Grass Seed Consumption During the
Middle Stone Age" by Julio Mercader in the journal Science,
and "Humans feasting on grains for at least 100,000 years,"
by Katherine Harmon Scientific American. Both articles cite
evidence that humans consumed grain much earlier than was
previously thought.

Dr. Cordain's response:

This is an interesting paper ( Mercader J. Mozambican grass
seed consumption during the middle stone age. Science
2009;326:1680-83) as it may push probable (but clearly not
definite) cereal grain consumption by hominins back to at least
105,000 years ago. Prior to this evidence, the earliest
exploitation of wild cereal grains was reported by Piperno
and colleagues at Ohalo II in Israel and dating to ~23,500
years ago (Nature 2004;430:670-73). As opposed to the Ohalo
II data in which a large saddle stone was discovered with
obvious repetitive grinding marks and embedded starch granules
attributed to a variety of grains and seeds that were
concurrently present with the artifact , the data from
Ngalue is less convincing for the use of cereal grains
as seasonal food. No associated intact grass seeds have been
discovered in the cave at Ngalue, nor were anvil stones
with repetitive grinding marks found. Hence, at best,
the data suggests sporadic use (and not necessarily
consumption) of grains at this early date. Clearly, large
scale processing of sorghum for consumption for extended
periods seems unlikely.

Further, It should be pointed out that consumption of wild
grass seeds of any kind requires extensive technology and
processing to yield a digestible and edible food that likely
did not exist 105,000 years ago. Harvesting of wild
grass seeds without some kind of technology (e.g.
sickles and scythes [not present at this time]) is
tedious and difficult at best. Additionally, containers
of some sort (baskets [not present at this time], pottery
[not present] or animal skin containers are needed to
collect the tiny grains. Many grain species require
flailing to separate the seed from the chaff and then
further winnowing ([baskets not present]), or animal
skins] to separate the seeds from the chaff. Intact
grains are not digestible by humans unless they are
first ground into a flour (which breaks down the cell
walls), and then cooked (typically in water – e.g.
boiling [technology not present]) or parched in a
fire which gelatinizes the starch granules, and thereby
makes them available for digestion and absorption. Because
each and every one of these processing steps requires
additional energy on the part of the gatherer, most
contemporary hunter gatherers did not exploit grains
except as starvation foods because they yielded such
little energy relative to the energy obtained (optimal
foraging theory).

If indeed the grinder/core axes with telltale starch
granules were used to make flour from sorghum seeds,
then the flour still had to be cooked to gelatinize the
starch granules to make it digestible. In Neolithic
peoples, grass seed flour most typically is mixed with
water to make a paste (dough) that is then cooked into flat
breads. It is highly unlikely that the technology or the
behavioral sophistication existed 105,000 years ago to
make flat breads. Whole grains can be parched intact
in fires, but this process is less effective than making
flour into a paste and cooking it to gelatinize the starch
granules. Hence, it is difficult to reconcile the chain of
events proposed by the authors (appearance of sorghum starch
granules on cobbles or grinders = pounding or grinding of
sorghum grains = consumption of sorghum). I wouldn’t hang
my hat on this evidence indicating grains were necessarily
consumed by hominins at this early date. To my mind, the
Ohalo II data still represents the best earliest evidence
for grain consumption by hominins.

Take from that what you will. Although to me it sounds a bit defensive.

[pbjorge12]

On another note, I was very disappointed about the Paleo Diet for Athletes. More appropriately named Paleo Diet for *Endurance* Athletes.

Loren Cordain, Robb Wolf, and John Welbourne have announced the paleo diet for power athletes...

[tnumrych]

Loren Cordain, Robb Wolf, and John Welbourne have announced the paleo diet for power athletes...

I was not aware of this development, pray tell.

[cycomiko]

Take from that what you will. Although to me it sounds a bit defensive.

most of Lorens stuff is entertaining, but built of major guesswork., to which he spends most of his time on defense.