Regarding Deadlift frequency in novice vs. intermediate phases

[vxmorpheusxv]

Hey, I just got, among others items, my new edition of PPST. I was flipping through it randomly in between sets today, and I noticed something that differed from the first edition (pg 110-111 in 2nd edition), namely that once a novice trainee might begin using light squats on wed. that there is no change to deadlift/PC frequency as recommended in the 1st edition, but the subsequent text still reads :

"deadlifts are still done for one set of five, although more sets could be added due to their reduced frequency in the program."

Just wanted to point that out to you.

Further though, it got me thinking and wanting to pose this question: how come the recommended frequency for deadlifts in some intermediate program recommendations (e.g some of the texas method threads I've read on here) is higher than in the novice stage? I have a guess but was curious what your opinion on it was. If this doesn't get posted cause it's a stupid question that's fine, hopefully at least the top part of this post was useful.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Let's see your guess.

[vxmorpheusxv]

Haha, sorry for excluding that, silly of me. My guess was it had to do with the fatigue that accumulates in an intermediate program versus a novice program.

That is to say, when every workout brings a new 5RM squat, it is probably harder for progress to be made as frequently on the deadlift compared to progress possible with the workload involved in an intermediate programming schedule (assuming deads haven't gotten heavy enough to warrant assistance work in place of the full movement). Is this accurate?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Okay boys, I'm lost here. Clarification help please.

[vxmorpheusxv]

Let me try to rephrase if I can, though it's possible the reason it's hard to understand what I'm saying is because I'm simply off base :(


My guess was:
In the novice stage, you're taxing your body a lot with every work out, as every workout deals with 3x5 at your maximum capacity.

In the intermediate stage (let's say on the texas method for less typing) you have the volume day, but then a recovery day in the middle of the week, with an intense but lower volume workout at the end of the week.

My view was: with the total relative stress on one's system being higher in the novice stage (no recovery day, 3x5's relatively close to 5RM), deadlifting heavy weekly might be hard to pull off here towards the end of this stage of adaptation. Hence, reduced deadlift frequency compared to a template texas method.


Does that help any? If not apologies for a convoluted explanation of something simply way off.

[Polynomial]

I wonder if any of this has to do with the fact that Rip states (at least in the first version of PPST) that intermediates have some kind of a goal in mind when training. That would largely affect deadlift frequency. For example, I'd expect powerlifters to deadlift more often than other athletes.

[mohiz]

I think what he's trying to ask is this:

In some novice programs the deadlift is done every fourth workout or even only every other week. Why is it that in applications of the Texas Method the deadlift is done once a week (more often than the novice)?

His guess is that the novice may deadlift less often, because the novice squats heavy more often than the intermediate.

[TrackJunkie]

Haha, sorry for excluding that, silly of me. My guess was it had to do with the fatigue that accumulates in an intermediate program versus a novice program.

That is to say, when every workout brings a new 5RM squat, it is probably harder for progress to be made as frequently on the deadlift compared to progress possible with the workload involved in an intermediate programming schedule (assuming deads haven't gotten heavy enough to warrant assistance work in place of the full movement). Is this accurate?

I think you've gotten the impression that the squats in the intermediate program put less stress on your body than the squats in the novice program. The exact opposite is true. When your abilities necessitate intermediate level programming, it's precisely because you can put enough stress on your body in one workout that you can't recover in time for the next workout. There's MORE stress on your body than before, not less.
It's actually easier to make progress on your deadlift while you're a novice, because, well, you're a novice.
I'll take a guess that we can do more sets of deadlifts during intermediate programming because we're deadlifting once every two weeks, instead of three times every two weeks. This means there's more time for the body to recover between deadlifting sessions, so we can increase the volume on that day by adding another set or maybe two. Of course, since our recovery ability is limited, we'll have to give up volume somewhere else, but tradeoffs are important.