Quick Lift Frustration

[Gary Gibson]

Hi Charles,

I just spend a couple years driving up my squats and my deadlift and I cannot get the strength to carryover into my cleans.

A few years ago when I could barely squat 225 for reps, I got my snatch up to my then bodyweight of 150. I don't have reliable records from that time, but I believe I managed a full squat clean of ~200 at least once.

Now weigh 168 and I low bar squat 405 with a belt, high bar a little more than 315 and just front squatted 235 for a max triple...and I can barely do 175 consistently on the power clean. I've managed 195, but it was really ugly.

I thought adding 150 lbs to my low bar squat and over 50 lbs to my front squat would have an immediate effect on my power clean. What's going on here? I know I'm unpracticed, but I thought all that extra leg strength would carryover at least a little.

[Charles Staley]

Gary I'd love to help but would need a video...


Hi Charles,

I just spend a couple years driving up my squats and my deadlift and I cannot get the strength to carryover into my cleans.

A few years ago when I could barely squat 225 for reps, I got my snatch up to my then bodyweight of 150. I don't have reliable records from that time, but I believe I managed a full squat clean of ~200 at least once.

Now weigh 168 and I low bar squat 405 with a belt, high bar a little more than 315 and just front squatted 235 for a max triple...and I can barely do 175 consistently on the power clean. I've managed 195, but it was really ugly.

I thought adding 150 lbs to my low bar squat and over 50 lbs to my front squat would have an immediate effect on my power clean. What's going on here? I know I'm unpracticed, but I thought all that extra leg strength would carryover at least a little.

[Gary Gibson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33EF8p7yFAg

Here's 165 or so. I'm at home, about to move. Just canceled my globo gym membership. Don't have a real barbell yet so I'm using this crappy 15-pounder I got off CL for cheap. 45 stacks bring bar to normal height.

Thanks for your time! Lots of stuff here to correct, I know.

[Charles Staley]

Well you're not making any particularly gross errors. And looking at your squat and dead numbers, you're not weak either. You should be power cleaning at least 220 on a 440 dead IMO.

Which leaves me to this: I think you need to work on speed/power, especially on your second pull (the portion of the pull above the knees)

If you watch that video of you, notice how there isn't much change in speed once the bar clears the knees. In fact, the whole lift seems to be done with one speed. It should be sloooowww-POP! (Slow to fast). You got no pop

By comparison, go to 3:40 in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_bHhi-P1eM) video, and watch my speed/tempo on 154, 176, and 198 power cleans. Big difference, yes? (BTW, watch my client Kim right after me in that vid- she's been doing cleans for about 3 weeks and she also lacks that "pop" I'm taking about despite being able to pull almost 400 in the deadlift.)

Clean pulls performed in a rack from just above the knees, working on maximum/aggressive torso extension will help, among other things...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33EF8p7yFAg

Here's 165 or so. I'm at home, about to move. Just canceled my globo gym membership. Don't have a real barbell yet so I'm using this crappy 15-pounder I got off CL for cheap. 45 stacks bring bar to normal height.

Thanks for your time! Lots of stuff here to correct, I know.

[chris123]

I have same problem even with the gaining of strength and each time I go back and try to do power cleans i stall fast and get stuck at 200lb for 5 at 190lb.My form is kinda like yours it isnt horrific, but I have no speed in my second pull and cant get full hip extension. I can dead lift 545lb, low bar back squat around 400lb and i dont really front squat but I did try them for the first time in months last week and did 245*3 easy prob could of added at least 30+lbs for a tripple.

Ill try to add a cycle of rack clean pulls. I also like doing sandbag/keg loading. When you belly up it really strength the muscles that use for the second pull and Im really bad at these too so i figure if I can increase my strength on these It would transfer over.

[Gary Gibson]

I have same problem even with the gaining of strength and each time I go back and try to do power cleans i stall fast and get stuck at 200lb for 5 at 190lb.My form is kinda like yours it isnt horrific, but I have no speed in my second pull and cant get full hip extension. I can dead lift 545lb, low bar back squat around 400lb and i dont really front squat but I did try them for the first time in months last week and did 245*3 easy prob could of added at least 30+lbs for a tripple.

Ill try to add a cycle of rack clean pulls. I also like doing sandbag/keg loading. When you belly up it really strength the muscles that use for the second pull and Im really bad at these too so i figure if I can increase my strength on these It would transfer over.

Wow, Chris. We are definitely in the same boat. A 545 deadlift (I assume conventional since that is more relevant to the clean than sumo)? With 200x5, I assume your best single is in the neighborhood of 225-235..? That's just above 40% of your deadlift, which is the same painful place where a lot of use end up.

I think constant practice is a factor here. I practice my deadlift a lot more than my clean, so they are as far apart as they can be in favor of my deadlift. Those who practice the clean a lot more than the deadlift end up with a dead that isn't as high as it could be, but with a pretty good clean that ends up being over 50% of their dead. Of course, some people are just naturally explosive and start with around 50% and can drive it up to ~70% with clean specialization.

Anyway, I'm working haltings and rack pulls from below the knee for the rest of this cycle and just practicing/warming up with power cleans before I do my grinds/non-ballistic movements. I'll see where I stand after a couple cycles of this at the beginning of April, at which point I'll be in a position to practice cleans daily (will have gotten a WL bar and bumper plates for home). I'll also incorporate those fast pulls in the rack after this upcoming meet.