EMG data

[TrackJunkie]

I have a question about the EMG data in figure 8-4 in the second edition of starting strength. You say that "Using more than 5 reps per set during
the learning phase of a new exercise will usually make correct technique harder to reproduce and master," and there's a nice visual aid up above where you can see pretty well that the first 6 reps are the most consistent group of reps.
I'm wondering how much of an effect training has on that observed consistency. I'm guessing that an athlete trained in a certain rep range will produce force more consistently in this rep range. From that guess, I suspect the athlete who was studied to make this particular figure trained mostly in the 5-6 rep range, and that if you studied a bodybuilder you might see similar smoothness out to 10-12 reps. Are there studies on the subject anywhere?

The question I'm getting at is whether it;s a bit too circular to take an athlete trained on 5-6 reps, study his movements for 30 reps, and conclude that since the first 5-6 reps are the most consistent, we should train in the 5-6 rep range since that's where form will be most consistent. Of course, I don't know that that's what's going on here, but if I did I probably wouldn't be asking the question.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Your point is quite valid, and were the effects of fatigue in a set of 20 not so familiar to me I would agree with you that this interpolation might not be valid. But let me assure you that a 20RM squat is not an event to which one becomes accustomed to the extent that even an experienced lifter approaching the end of a 20-rep squat cycle is able to keep tight technique in the presence of that level of fatigue.

The exercise science literature is full of inappropriate conclusions drawn from the misapplication of data drawn from a specific study population extrapolated to a larger or quite different population, ignoring the fact that depending on the level of training advancement different populations respond differently to the same training stimulus. Good eyes.

[TrackJunkie]

Your point is quite valid, and were the effects of fatigue in a set of 20 not so familiar to me I would agree with you that this interpolation might not be valid. But let me assure you that a 20RM squat is not an event to which one becomes accustomed to the extent that even an experienced lifter approaching the end of a 20-rep squat cycle is able to keep tight technique in the presence of that level of fatigue.

The exercise science literature is full of inappropriate conclusions drawn from the misapplication of data drawn from a specific study population extrapolated to a larger or quite different population, ignoring the fact that depending on the level of training advancement different populations respond differently to the same training stimulus. Good eyes.

Certainly noone gets used to 20RM squats, since they're just crazy hard, but if you took a guy at the end of a 20-rep squat program, and had him do 30 reps of some weight that you could do with consistent form, I'm curious to see what this diagram might look like.
We could also study one of the kinesiology students I've seen in my weight room half squatting 55 pounds for three sets of 20 reps all semester. Maybe he's at least made one adaptation.

[Mark Rippetoe]

We?

[TrackJunkie]

Oh, sorry. I think that was a case of the "scientific we." Not that I wouldn't be happy to do some kinesiology research with you, but there are probably a few too many miles between us for that, and my qualifications consist entirely of enthusiasm.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I was kidding.