(Somewhat) Serious Suggestion before Posting

[brittf]

Mark,

I find using the search function pretty much a pain in the ass.

You will note, I believe, that I am not rehashing the same questions in my posts, so I am not one of the guilty ones. I DO try to use the search function and I try to do my "due diligence" before posting.

However, the fact remains that the search function is primitive and not very handy.

However, there is a solution:

No one can post until they purchase, read, and pass a test on "Mean Old Mr. Gravity"...

Ta dah... Problem solved :).

Anyone who has spent 2-3 weeks reading through MOMG every night for 30 minutes before bed and every morning when they are taking a shit will automatically be "mostly" up-to-date.

What do you think???? :)

Regards,
brittf

[Mark Rippetoe]

I pretty much agree. Now, how do we implement?

[DemonThrust]

I've used many forums over the years and I haven't seen a more efficient way to search. Basically all anyone can do is tweak the search terms and hope.

The main troubles are:

1) People posting off topic things without starting a new thread
2) Poor choice of Thread/Subject title

I own the first edition of Practical Programming, but I want to find the difference between it and the 2nd edition to see if I ought to purchase it. There are a lot of search terms to choose from, and that's the rub. Practical, programming, 1st, 2nd, first, second, edition, differences, changes, additions, etc etc. Software design is still primitive in some aspects.

Best,
Matt

[TPrewittMD]

Wow, what a convert.

It seems like just a few days ago that we were wearing Britt when he asked if there was enough new info in PP 2nd ed. to buy the book.

Now he wants to make MOMG required reading before anyone can ask a question!

Rip, is it time for me to pass my self-ascribed mantle of "buy-the-book-you-cheapskate" policeman to the Professor?

[Tom Woodward]

Everyone starting a thread should be prompted with a medium difficulty trivia question based on keywords in their post that would require a search. If they fail, no thread. Is this too difficult? I'm not a programmer.

[drlvegas]

Make them tell you what page "Cropdusting" is on.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Rip, is it time for me to pass my self-ascribed mantle of "buy-the-book-you-cheapskate" policeman to the Professor?

Only if you're tired, Tom.

[TPrewittMD]

Only if you're tired, Tom.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I will continue to proudly berate the newbies who dare to question the benefits and value of buying the books.

heh

[knkavo]

A boring, humourless but effective solution is to use google instead of the search function. This has been said quite a few times on this board but I am just repeating it for the new guys.

Eg: "massive biceps site:startingstrength.com"

[Steve in ATL]

A search suggestion? Go to Google. No, not you, Mark. Everyone else. The Google search engine allows you to search within a domain, and it is very much more powerful than any board software that I've seen.

In the main bar, if you wanted to search startingstrength.com for "IT band issues", you'd type:

IT band issues site:startingstrength.com

It's very effective, and most everyone is used to using Google.

Now exactly three people will read and use this. Everyone else will keep bugginh you, Mark.

[DemonThrust]

If someone posts with a subject like 'newb question' or 'lifting advice' you could ask them to re-post with a proper title before answering the question. Might save some headache in the long-run. That assumes that posters can delete their own threads, which I'm not sure they can on this board.

Best,
Matt

[Craig B.]

Generally I just use google advanced search for forums, as the search functions always suck. Stick your question where it usually goes and http://www.startingstrength.com in the "Search within a site or domain:" window. Probably too much to ask, however.

[strengthstarter]

I'm not the one having to wade through questions I've already answered numerous times, but I'm not in favor of having to buy MOMG in order to post to this section of the forum. Questions about material in SS might be more reasonable, since it is more or less presumed that one has read that book before posting here.

This thread did spark another thought. I'd pretty much decided that I would not buy MOMG, having bought SS and PP. Mostly because it is described as a replication/editing of what is on the web. If the biggest selling point was just having the information in paper form for a toilet/coffee table, it wasn't worth it to me.

However, if the book is organized well enough, e.g., provides a strong table of contents, where I could go read additional information on specific topics without having to dig through the book or these forums, that would be a big selling point. The best way to demonstrate this could be to publish the Table of Contents on the sale page. It might tip me in favor of buying. Just a thought.

An ebook of all three of these that I could access through this site or get in straight .PDF would also be nice. That way I could access the book when I am not at home and need to look somethign up. However, I understand you might be considered with theft, going this route.

[brittf]

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I will continue to proudly berate the newbies who dare to question the benefits and value of buying the books.

heh

Hi Tom.

Funny post above. I would never dare to challenge your well-earned position :).

Well before I ever started reading this forum (and avoiding my job responsibilities), I had purchased and read all of Mark's books - including the 1st Ed of Practical Programming. The 2nd Ed definitely has some interesting updates but, as Mark says, it is not a complete re-write (as the 2nd Ed of Starting Strength was). Aside from financially supporting Mark's work, which I am happy to do, I must admit to being a bit indifferent to the 2nd Ed of Practical Programming. Solid update of an already good book, as reported.

On the other hand, two of my other purchases at that time DID have a profound impact on my study of strength training.

MOMG was a great purchase for me PRECISELY because it allowed me to catch up on past posts without having to sit at the computer all day or try to use the SEARCH function. I am definitely old-fashioned and prefer to read a book rather than scroll through e-pages on a computer, even if it is "free". For me, $20 is completely insignificant compared to the "comfort" of having a book. It also helps me avoid looking like a lazy dumb-ass who couldn't bother to research a question before posting :).

However, I REALLY gained a lot from purchasing the DVD of Starting Strength. In general, I hate DVDs because I like to read and skim and jump around, as I see fit. DVDs are often too slow and too pedantic and too passive for my taste. I never watch TV (maybe 15 minutes a week, if that) and DVDs "seem like" a dumbed-down version of a book, intended for lazy people who can't be bothered to read. I purchased the DVD SOLELY to support Mark financially, thinking that it was a complete waste for me, personally.

I was completely wrong.

It is one thing to read about how to squat or deadlift or clean or press or bench. It is another thing, entirely, to see and hear Mark teach and correct problems with these lifts. It was very eye-opening. I now consider that DVD to be my single best strength-training purchase, eclipsing even Mark's 2nd edition of Starting Strength. As a result, I will also attend one of Mark's seminars this year, to get hands-on instruction in addition to the book and the DVD.

Respectfully,
brittf

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

You get a pass key when you buy the books. You enter the pass key and your post aren't moderated. No pass key, your posts are.

No for actually reading the books, anyone stupid enough to spend money on books they aren't going to read will be feretted out in short order anyway. THen we'll feed them to flux.

[Adam Wood]

I have a hopefully useful suggestion for noobs who refuse to search. Make a sticky thread titled 'BEFORE YOU ASK A QUESTION, SEARCH, YOU FOOLS!' or words to that effect that contains this URL (work/family safe):

http://tr.im/JI5u

That link runs a Google search of this forum for the term 'cropdusting'. Then tell folks to replace 'cropdusting' with the terms they'd like to search, i.e. 'Do I have to do power cleans?' or 'What if I don't like power cleans?' etc. Tell them to bookmark it and use it every time they have a question.

I know this is the internet, where idiocy abounds, but perhaps over time folks will get the message.

[PapaBear59]

I own the first edition of Practical Programming, but I want to find the difference between it and the 2nd edition to see if I ought to purchase it. There are a lot of search terms to choose from, and that's the rub. Practical, programming, 1st, 2nd, first, second, edition, differences, changes, additions, etc etc. Software design is still primitive in some aspects.

Best,
Matt

Personally I think the 2nd edition is worth the investment.

[BPIII]

I could be accused of reading too much into the original intent of the post, but, manifestly, the problem is that we are all getting free coaching.

The constant admonishments to "use the search function," boil down to: "we're already giving you free advice ya cheap bastards, the least you can do is not waste our time asking us the same question twice, thrice, etc..."

The subtle genius of incentivizing folks to buy MOMG by granting access to posting to the board is NOT, I believe, that it will presumably raise the quality of the posts on this board but, rather, that it forces the individual to pay for the value received on the Board, albeit by some indirect and, if one buys the book from a retailer, inefficient route.

So why don't we cut to the chase and create some method of paying for remote coaching? Isn't that what most of us want? The freedom to ask Coach to critique our form at any time, ask any dumbass question that may occur to us, etc.?

I, for one, would gladly pay for some block of Rip's time via remote access.

Whaddya say Rip?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Too much trouble. I'd rather just delete the abject stupidity, remind the new guys about the search function, and answer the good questions. I learn stuff this way, and I disagree with internet coaching enough that I'm not going to do it even if it pays.

[ello]

Too much trouble. I'd rather just delete the abject stupidity, remind the new guys about the search function, and answer the good questions. I learn stuff this way, and I disagree with internet coaching enough that I'm not going to do it even if it pays.

On a serious note, is there a sticky somewhere that lets new guys know about the search function? I for one haven't found it if it exists, and the first time you did mention it I was still baffled.

Me: "Search function? Why the hell am I going to search for a function?"

[rhymer]

You don't need to mess with Google Advanced Search. Just add "site:www.startingstrength.com" to any google search.

[Mark Rippetoe]

On a serious note, is there a sticky somewhere that lets new guys know about the search function? I for one haven't found it if it exists, and the first time you did mention it I was still baffled.

Me: "Search function? Why the hell am I going to search for a function?"

Little blue bar at the top, the little thing you can "click" on that says "Search". Or use the instructions for google, above this response.

[ello]

Little blue bar at the top, the little thing you can "click" on that says "Search". Or use the instructions for google, above this response.

I may not have explained myself fully. After my first post, I learned how to use the search function. My only question was whether there was a "sticky" to highlight this function of the forum because many new users, like myself, may be unaware of this option. And, individuals who are not used to using forums at all may not understand the idea of "searching a forum."

By the way, I searched the forum using the drop down tab labeled "Forum Jump". I've never noticed the blue bar before you mentioned it.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Glad to be of help.