starting strength cues and essentials

[msingh]

Can you can reduce much of starting strength to a canonical set of cues which one can memorise for when doing the main lifts?

I'm making this thread so that we can collect them all in one place and then I'll be willing to make a nice pdf chart for people to download/print and stick on their wall/gym/office, what have you, if you help me come up with a list. if it turns out well i'll even surrender the rights to mark so he can sell it on the aasgard site

squat
chest up, knees out
arse back
?

bench
arch back
chest up
?

powercleans
dont pull with arms (what's the cue for this?)
?

deadlift
squeeze chest up
bar close to body throughout the lift
?

press
?


admins, if this is the wrong place to post this feel free to move it or delete it or whatever... no hard feelings

[nisora33]

No.

[msingh]

No.

Nonsense. I'm sure you can teach someone to squat without them knowing what a patellar tendon is, by reading an enyclopediac treatsie on the squat like a technical book such as SSBT. There is got to be a distilled version of the basic cues to learn and keep in mind, to repeat to yourself prior to a set or while doing it.

[nisora33]

Paint chips.

[stronger]

why is this a bad idea?

[StLRPh]

Where are the pics of hot cro$$fit chicks?

[Webbie]

why is this a bad idea?
I think it's a good idea. Some people are more visual learners and I have found that maps and graphics sometimes connote things that words cannot. Take a look at Ripp's Metabolic Speedometer graphic on pg 85 in PPST. Is this the sort of thing you're shooting for msingh? (except with BB moves)

I think Mr. nisora has a bit of a sun burn with regard to Mr. msingh. It's understandable.

[Sgsolberg]

If you read the books available, the cues to these lifts are laid out very clearly.

Assuming you can overlook the degree of cognitive dissonance that occurs with many people when they are confronted with video evidence of their poor form, there are a few reasons this would not work very well.

First, cues work different for everyone. I recall a discussion where Gary mentioned that the squat cue: chest up did not do much for him, but something like "push with your traps" did. Others mentioned similar sentiments.

Second, it can be very difficult effectively communicate good cues on some issues. Consider the following concepts only on the squat: correct depth when dealing with tight hammies, the degree of forward movement of the knee (especially at the bottom of the squat), back rounding (and the degree to which this is present or acceptable), initiating with the knees and hips simultaneously.

Finally,the books contain additional information so that you understand how and why the lifts are taught and performed the way they are. Understanding only the how and disregarding the why quickly translates to dogma, rather than sound reasoning.

The reasons laid out in the books are important, not merely to explain why, but also to lay the foundation for understanding the way these lifts will impact the trainee. It is critical to understand to what degree the correctly performed squat involves the hams. It is important to understand why the press alternates with the bench press. These things will greatly impact the lifter as the trainee exits the novice phase and has to start thinking about their programming.

[nisora33]

Msingh is trying to a.) redeem himself to the forum, or b.) get everyone else to make his cheat sheet for him because he hasn't read the book or can't comprehend it. It's adorable, really.

Also, more hot CrossFit chicks are coming up soon, promise. Actually, I think this should become the standard way of dealing with Msingh's posts.

Also, paint chips.

-S.

[msingh]

If you read the books available, the cues to these lifts are laid out very clearly.

Assuming you can overlook the degree of cognitive dissonance that occurs with many people when they are confronted with video evidence of their poor form, there are a few reasons this would not work very well.

First, cues work different for everyone. I recall a discussion where Gary mentioned that the squat cue: chest up did not do much for him, but something like "push with your traps" did. Others mentioned similar sentiments.
.....

I agree with what you've written. The cues are certainly available in the book but it's impractical to have a copy of of starting strength next to you while squatting in the gym. What's more, even if you haven't fully grasped the material in the book you're still going to get under the bar and do your lifts, so whatever salient cues you can use to get through the present session are invaluable, perhaps more important than the technical information present in the books. What's more, perfect is the enemy of good, and good is mostly adhering to the basic set of cues that a capable coach would shout to you while watching you train. Mark would tell you to get lower, sit back, keep the chest up, drive with the hips, and so on. He wouldnt have you take a 2 hour break to read paragraph 3 of page 34 of starting stength before finishing the set.

[Roamer]

I do not see anything wrong with having your own cue sheet.

I have one for every lift. I have read SS:BBT and am half way through
PP:ST2.

I just finish my third week of the Novice program. I use the cue sheets
to remind me of the parts of the lifts that I have problems with.
Like breathing correctly on the presses and keeping my head off the
bench during bench press.

I can see way some would not like them posted here.

By the way I am still going up 5lbs per lift(15 on Deadlift) and
I am still progressing.

[msingh]

I think it's a good idea. Some people are more visual learners and I have found that maps and graphics sometimes connote things that words cannot. Take a look at Ripp's Metabolic Speedometer graphic on pg 85 in PPST. Is this the sort of thing you're shooting for msingh? (except with BB moves)

I think Mr. nisora has a bit of a sun burn with regard to Mr. msingh. It's understandable.

I had a look on page 85 but couldn't find any diagrams there but what you've described is basically right. Something simple and prescriptive of good form as per SSBT.

[Webbie]

You might have the second edition of PPST...look up Kreb's cycle in the index and it will show you the page of the graphic I'm referring to.

[Sgsolberg]

...even if you haven't fully grasped the material in the book you're still going to get under the bar and do your lifts, so whatever salient cues you can use to get through the present session are invaluable...

...What's more, perfect is the enemy of good, and good is mostly adhering to the basic set of cues that a capable coach would shout to you while watching you train...

When you are a rank novice, the weight you are using will not be heavy enough to fuck you up. If you are squatting 150 lbs for 3 sets of 5, you can video yourself and get coaching between sessions, but doing a shitty set of 150 will cause no permanent harm.

I find that the more you have to fret over, the more your focus is spread out, the less effectively you will lift. I think it is fine to work on one thing at a time ie: back tight, then next session, knees out, etc...

Of course, feel free to make a cue sheet. I was merely mentioning several questions I had regarding the usefulness of such a thing.

[Kyle Aaron]

Where are the pics of hot cro$$fit chicks?
http://www.criticalbench.com/images/crossfit2.jpg

Sgsolberg already gave the sensible answer, so we can go off-topic now ;)

[Mr.City]

Can't you just reread the book?

[msingh]

Can't you just reread the book?

You certainly can do both, and watch the dvd, and read the forums and the crossfit articles (by ripp and kilgore etc), and many other things. It's just another resource; one that is more immediately applicable during actual lifting than the textbook. Something to keep in mind prior to a set, during the set, and while resting for the next one.

[Mr.City]

But the book has the cues, which you can make note of.

[msingh]

But the book has the cues, which you can make note of.

Yes? There are cues all over the place, collecting them together in a useful concise document is the the purpose of the thread. I hope this clears up any confusion. This is precisely the notes thread..

[Mr.City]

Perhaps I'm confused here, but are you asking for the cues from the book or cues that we use that may not be in the book?

[msingh]

cues given by ripp in the various publications he has made over the years and including any found in the many videos available featuring him

[Mr.City]

I know that Rip helped one woman arch her back during the bench when he suggested that she "push her tits towards him." It worked and they both got a laugh out of it, or so the story goes.

[brobinson]

There are reference/cue cards available for download from here:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Tools_and_Downloads

They cover the Squat, Bench, Press and Deadlift.

I never used them myself simply because I found the books/forum to be enough for my needs, but they may be useful to you.

[misspelledgeoff]

keep your chest up in the deadlift...
http://www.crossfitsantacruz.com/.a/6a00d834515d6769e201157108b76b970c-500wi

stick your ass out in teh squat...

http://www.crossfitsantacruz.com/.a/6a00d834515d6769e2011571318bae970b-500wi

did I say stick your ass out in the squat?...

http://www.crossfitsantacruz.com/.a/6a00d834515d6769e201156f1e2922970c-500wi

pullups and chins start from full extension...

http://www.crossfitsantacruz.com/.a/6a00d834515d6769e2011278f85af828a4-500wi

[gman]

Can you can reduce much of starting strength to a canonical set of cues which one can memorise for when doing the main lifts?

I'm making this thread so that we can collect them all in one place and then I'll be willing to make a nice pdf chart for people to download/print and stick on their wall/gym/office, what have you, if you help me come up with a list. if it turns out well i'll even surrender the rights to mark so he can sell it on the aasgard site

squat
chest up, knees out
arse back
?

bench
arch back
chest up
?

powercleans
dont pull with arms (what's the cue for this?)
?

deadlift
squeeze chest up
bar close to body throughout the lift
?

press
?


admins, if this is the wrong place to post this feel free to move it or delete it or whatever... no hard feelings


Maybe this would work better for you if YOU came up with a list to share with us. Then if people saw that you acutally put some time into it, they would be more willing to take you seriously.

[StLRPh]

I doubt it. He eats paint chips.

[Kate]

There are reference/cue cards available for download from here:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Tools_and_Downloads

They cover the Squat, Bench, Press and Deadlift.

I never used them myself simply because I found the books/forum to be enough for my needs, but they may be useful to you.

I found those PDFs some time ago (they're listed near the bottom of the page), downloaded & printed them, and keep them in my weight room. They cover the basics pretty well (as reminders). Every once in a while, I still look at them, but not as often as I did when first learning the lifts.

I have found Gary's "push traps into the bar" cue quite helpful when I'm in danger of GM'ing a squat that's heavy for me.

-Kate

[Roamer]

But the book has the cues, which you can make note of.

It is hard to hold the book while squatting. Maybe I could put it on the ground
about 6 feet in front of me.

[Mr.City]

Which is why you read the chapter before squatting.

[nisora33]

It is hard to hold the book while squatting. Maybe I could put it on the ground
about 6 feet in front of me.

Or you could just fucking remember the cues, eh?

[gman]

Which is why you read the chapter before squatting.

Actually, it also comes in handy to read while waiting between sets.

[crc]

This is a bad idea because everyone has individual cues that work for them and trying to be all-inclusive of every cue is just going to overwhelm the kind of people who need cue charts. The guy who needs to remember to force his knees out but has an ok squat otherwise might start over analyzing when confronted with 'neutral neck, chest up, toes out, knees inline with toes, valsalva, etc etc' and wind up fucking his form up in other ways. What's better is to identify individual problems and have the person make a cue chart that is devoid of any unnecessary content and focuses solely on the cues they need.

I realize you're trying to ingratiate yourself by becoming a contributor but you're trying too hard.

[78704]

On the power clean, when the bar clears your knees JUMP!

[Sgsolberg]

In between sets, take better notes. Write down the little things that went well or bothered you. This will allow you to better understand your performance.

With this in mind, you can track weights/reps against your own notes, and gain a better understanding of what focus provides the best results... ie: when you think about a cue, does it work for you.

[HamptonMike]

Why don't we all chip in an send msingh to the starting strength seminar? Rip and company can certainly give him some tailor made cues to help him. Who knows he may never make it back.

[Sgsolberg]

We could do that... but for every dollar you send, that's one less Mcdouble you can eat. I'm not willing to make that trade.

[nisora33]

Why don't we all chip in an send msingh to the starting strength seminar? Rip and company can certainly give him some tailor made cues to help him. Who knows he may never make it back.

Msingh would pull his know-it-all, you-can't-tell-me a thing attitude with them, and either Stef and Juli would beat the living fuck out of him or Johnny Pain would just roll him up and eat him for dinner. Wait, maybe I've got that backwards.

-S.