Training The Unwilling

[Rorschach]

Right, this is more of a vent than anything, but I welcome any comments/shoulders to cry on.

So, a female friend of mine has joined my gym, and I've agreed to help her train. All well and good so far, gives me a chance to preach to someone new about how awesome free weights are.

Had our first session at the weekend, and it went fairly well. Got a bodyweight deadlift 1RM out of her, a squat with the bar, and 3x5 chins with assistance. No units on the chin/dip machine, which is annoying.

Anyway, on to the problem. Training motivation is going to be tricky, as with anyone unfit, but I can work on that. She lives 5 mins from the gym, so I can drag her out of bed if need be. ;)
The big issue, however, is diet. She's 120 lbs at 5 foot 7, so nigh on malnourished, yet she's convinced her diet is fine. She's even used the "I eat loads, but have a high metabolism" line.

"What have you eaten today?" ask I, after the training.
"Well, I had a banana for breakfast" replies she.
*facepalm* says I.
Considering this was mid afternoon, you can see my problem. I'm surprised she didn't faint.

She went to her doctor recently about lack of energy, and the idiot gave her a BMI reading, and said that her weight was fine. Even by that retarded system, she's borderline underweight.
And, to make things worse, she's actually going to the gym to lose weight, as she thinks her bum's too big. Now I have thoroughly inspected said arse, and it is in no way too big. This is bordering on body dysmorphia, people.
I'm one step away from tieing her down and forcing jars of peanut butter down her throat.
I can probably get her to cut down on processed carbs by explaining insulin spikes and fat storage, but actually getting her to up her calories is going to be a nightmare. :D

Anyone have any experience of dealing with stubborn womenfolk in a similar situation? If it were a guy, I could tap into their machismo, but I've tried "You're skinny and it makes you look ugly", and that didn't work. :(

Though in all seriousness, I am being careful not to put her off by being too overzealous, though I may have ranted a bit when BMI was mentioned... >_>

[tennisgod]

Yeah, discussing weight with woman is a very sensitive area... basically a lose-lose scenario.
My advise is not to concentrate on the food aspect until she starts to see the good effects of lifting (hopefully), and realises herself that muscle doesn't come from air (or a single banana).
Is there any female role model at the gym that you can point out who is fit and looks great?

[Rorschach]

Yeah, I'm hoping that if I can keep her training at least twice a week, her appetite will increase, and she'll appreciate the improved energy levels.

There are a couple of girls from the uni rowing team who're pretty good, I'll just have to hope they turn up at the same time. ;)

[BryanM]

Yeah you can lead a horse to water but all you can do once there is drown the bastard.

Really don't even bother unless you're getting paid, you'll only end up heart broke.

If she cares about progression and measurable objective results, she will come around on diet like most of us have. If she wants to be Anorexic Lass, she can just stop eating and stop frittering away time at the gym.

The key problem here is caring. You have to try really hard at this. You have to become a no-care bear.

[Rorschach]

You're a wiser man than me, Bryan. ;)
Reminds me of a segment of a Jim Wendler seminar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZOAN940Hr0&feature=PlayList&p=50B32383552AEB92&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3), even has a nice plug for Starting Strength at the end.

[JV99]

You're a wiser man than me, Bryan. ;)
Reminds me of a segment of a Jim Wendler seminar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZOAN940Hr0&feature=PlayList&p=50B32383552AEB92&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3), even has a nice plug for Starting Strength at the end.

Haden't seen that in awhile. Always inspirational.
To make a link to the "Man thread"; I like how he self corrected into saying that he was honoured to call Rip "an aquaintance" instead of "a friend" and explaining why. That is the way a Man should assess and describe the people he encounters and affiliates with instead of calling every-fucking-body a friend. Friendship (and respect) is earned, not given.

[IlPrincipeBrutto]

Yeah, I'm hoping that if I can keep her training at least twice a week, her appetite will increase, and she'll appreciate the improved energy levels.

I'm afraid there's another scenario, which I think is more likely. She will stall early with her weights, and conclude that this sort of training is not right for her. She will probably add that she is genetically unable to get muscles anyway, because her mum made her with spindly legs and narrow shoulders.

IPB

[Dastardly]

Now I have thoroughly inspected said arse,
I'm one step away from tieing her down and forcing jars of peanut butter down her throat.


Stop, your giving me a boner.

[Dastardly]

Really though, just show her pictures of the crossfit ladies and other athletic women.

Explain how we lust for them so.

Also that fat in the right areas on a woman (boobs, thighs, hips, arse) add to sexiness especially when there is a foundation of shapely muscle underneath.

[Raskolnikov]

Really though, just show her pictures of the crossfit ladies and other athletic women.

Explain how we lust for them so.

Also that fat in the right areas on a woman (boobs, thighs, hips, arse) add to sexiness especially when there is a foundation of shapely muscle underneath.

This ^^^

I've been dealing with the exact same issue with my girlfriend. It's akin to changing someone's world view, but over the course of the last month, I've slowly convinced her that everything she thinks she knows about what guys find attractive, about diet, and about exercise is horseshit. The crossfit thread has been helpful in that process. There was also a recent post in Rip's Q&A showing a 130 something pound girl squat 225 with damn near perfect form (and her <cough> posterior chain ain't too shabby, either) -- that proved very inspirational to her.

[stronger]

she would probably look and perform best about 20-30lbs heavier. Why not suggest incremental gains? shoot for 5lbs over the next 2-3 weeks, and so on. Or, stress the importance of a breakfast, lunch and dinner with all the major food groups in it. Tell her it will positively benefit her lifting and gains if she consumes bread, meat, dairy, fruit, vegetables, nuts etc with each meal. Whether she likes it or not, she'll be getting more calories and will probably gain weight. In this approach, don't stress that she needs to eat more, just differently, and she'll end up eating more either way.

[PVC]

Definitely show her the crossfit thread, especially the pictures in which the girls are actually lifting heavy weights. And show her the comments made by guys drooling over these girls.

[Kate]

There was also a recent post in Rip's Q&A showing a 130 something pound girl squat 225 with damn near perfect form (and her <cough> posterior chain ain't too shabby, either) -- that proved very inspirational to her.

That thread was Girlfriend's squat form check (http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=14453); it has links to videos of the girl doing the squats. That 130-pound girl is 5' 3.5" tall, according to the guy who posted, and I found it really helpful to see what 130 pounds can look like on a strong woman that height. (Even paused the video a few times.) She looks great -- and that makes me more willing to put on a few more pounds.

Besides which, I know I'm not gonna get that bodyweight squat without eating more. And I'm far enough along with the lifting now to want that bodyweight squat.

Don't know if that helps at all -- I think my post is a little disjointed (guess who needs food?). Rorschach, if you can find pictures of strong women -- complete with height and weight info -- that might give your friend a reality check*. That, and her seeing that a fair number of guys are lusting after women with... uh... "squat arse." :)

I s'pose you could mention the bone-building benefits of weightlifting, too, but fear-of-being-fat will likely be stronger than fear-of-osteoporosis, especially if she's young.

Whether you care or not about what she does is up to you, of course. But I'd suggest a little patience, if you can dig some up. Gaining a pound or two a month might be major progress for her; don't judge her by the standards you guys apply to yourselves.

-Kate

*Pics like that might help if there's no dysmorphia. If something clinically significant is going on, that's a whole other ball game, and pushing her too much will most likely backfire.

[Marotta]

I'm also about to help training a friend. In my case, I told her, in terms of how much of which foods, she'll need to eat, how hard that'll be, and that the training will be very likely be physically harder than anything she's ever done in her life.

I figured I should give her "Not for the faint of heart" disclaimer included with the Starting Strength program. Seemed like common sense to me.

[Webbie]

Training the unwilling...I think it would be easier to convert a Democrat to a Republican.

Look. Just love and appreciate your girls the way that they are. If they want to learn how to train, you'll be there.

[Melissa]

I have to agree with IPB. She's going to get burnt out because she won't up her calories. We compare ourselves to one another. And your friend is comparing herself to other skinny women. If she were to meet women (say, Crossfit women?) who train and actually eat and who are happy with their bodies she might change her tune because it would be a postive influence. Evenutally she might see past the body image and gain confidence from being strong and capable.

There's a study that I wish I could find that said most men prefer larger women. Not that your friend should change her body so men will like her, but it is a factor. I mean, come on - we're human, aren't we? :)

[PMDL]

Anyone have any experience of dealing with stubborn womenfolk in a similar situation?

Yep.

My advice to you is not to fuck with it. If she doesn't want it, and this goes for anybody, you're not going to make it happen. You're wasting your time, because she's going to ignore you at every chance she gets and quit at the first signs of muscle appearing, or the scale going up, anyway.

[Kate]

...Not that your friend should change her body so men will like her....

Good point. Does your friend participate in any sports that increased strength would make easier? (Which would be most sports, I s'pose.) Or maybe she's tired of feeling tired all the time?

If she decides she's not interested, don't bang your head against the wall trying to get her more interested. But she did ask you for training help, right? So... maybe she'll come around, in her own sweet time.

[applescruffette]

This may sound silly, but has she seen a recent picture of herself? Personally, I cannot see my body for what it is for some reason in the mirror, but I can with a picture of me. That may be some motivation, if she is receptive to that. She may decide that she actually has no butt and needs some meat on her arms or something to that tune.

I think it's cool that she's giving it a shot. Too many women apparently don't.

[Rorschach]

Well she'd still be on the treadmill if I hadn't dragged her over to the weights area. ;)
No sports, she's inactive but skinny because... she doesn't eat much...

Second session today, I reckon I've given her enough time to recover. :P
Thanks for the comments, I'm going to avoid being pushy as she's stubborn, I'll just give advice and see if she takes it.