Back Squat

[Steve Collegio]

Any tips or advice. I tried posting it to the Rip section twice but it never showed up.

285 x 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEZLK0M6R40

Thanks!

[nisora33]

Steve, only problem I see is that the hamstrings are going slack when you get down into the hole. The hips are sliding forward toward the knees, bringing the hamstring origin point closer to its insertion point. Ham contribution drops at that point. The hams re-engage as you reach parallel going back up--that's why you see your hips sliding back and up at the turnaround.

You know what to do.

Stacey

[TomC]

Also, keep your head in line with your spine. You are looking up on the way out of the bottom.

[Steve Collegio]

Many thanks guys! Really appreciate it, 315 x 5 here i come!

[Jason B]

One other thing I see, take a deep breath and hold it before you start your rep. You're taking short, shallow breaths (as evidenced by your stomach movement) between reps, which is fine, but take a deep breath into your gut and push out on your belt with each rep, and don't release it until your past your sticking point.

Also, arch that lower and mid back hard throughout the rep, your back is losing it's tightness. That will also help with hamstring tension as mentioned above.

[spangler]

Any tips or advice. I tried posting it to the Rip section twice but it never showed up.

285 x 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEZLK0M6R40

Thanks!

I know I'm just a novice and my videos aren't stellar ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw7ZwUoEZn8 ) but it seems that on most of the reps you are ending up on your toes. Doesn't that kind of indicate that the push isn't coming from your heels and that your weight distribution is in the wrong place?

Please don't feel I'm knocking your form at all, as I said mine isn't perfect either, I just feel these videos are a great place to all learn from each other.

One last thing, your bar position seems to be similar to mine in the video I posted above and Coach Rip told me it was a high-bar position, so if you are going for a low-bar position as he coaches you may have missed it.

-Andrew

[Nauticus]

Yeah, I think they are high bar. It's hard to get that good of depth with low bar, not to mention keeping your torso that vertical.

[nisora33]

Also, arch that lower and mid back hard throughout the rep, your back is losing it's tightness.


No it isn't. I can't be any more plain than that. His back is fine, did you even watch the same video as the rest of us? This is what I was getting at in my post of a few days ago. This nitpicking/seeing-things-that-aren't-there bullshit needs to stop.

-S.

[cjangelo]

Steve, only problem I see is that the hamstrings are going slack when you get down into the hole. The hips are sliding forward toward the knees, bringing the hamstring origin point closer to its insertion point. Ham contribution drops at that point. The hams re-engage as you reach parallel going back up--that's why you see your hips sliding back and up at the turnaround.

You know what to do.


I'm pretty sure that I'm doing the same thing.

What should he do? Widen his stance a bit, focus on knees out and sitting back?
EDIT: Oh, and lower the placement of the bar?

I have a lot of bad habits that I'm having trouble correcting, and I would rather chew on a 5lb plate than reduce the weight on the bar.

[Raskolnikov]

Looks like a great high bar squat to me.

[blowdpanis]

I'm pretty sure that I'm doing the same thing.

What should he do? Widen his stance a bit, focus on knees out and sitting back?
EDIT: Oh, and lower the placement of the bar?

I have a lot of bad habits that I'm having trouble correcting, and I would rather chew on a 5lb plate than reduce the weight on the bar.

Stay tight in the bottom, basically. People relax a little at the bottom because relaxing is easier than staying tight, no? If you're achieving Retard Depth™, consciously cutting your reps a little short on depth tends to help.

For people who aren't shoving their knees out much, a little extra knees out can also help, as the increased stretch on the adductors becomes a good cue at the bottom to reverse direction.

[nisora33]

Looks like a great high bar squat to me.

You're right, I was paying more attention to what's going on down below, the bar is somewhat high.

[cjangelo]

Stay tight in the bottom, basically. People relax a little at the bottom because relaxing is easier than staying tight, no? If you're achieving Retard Depth™, consciously cutting your reps a little short on depth tends to help.

Are we talking about the OP? I didn't think he was getting stupid-low.




Looks like a great high bar squat to me.

Is this contributing to the hip slide in the hole? I seem to have much more efficient hip drive when I get the bar real low on my back. I would like to see the OP position the bar lower on his back and see if this doesn't immediately clear up some of the issues Stacey pointed out.

Be sure to holler at me if I'm way off base here. I'm trying to learn to analyze these problems so I can do it for myself and teammates.

[Steve Collegio]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I prefer the high-bar squat over the low-bar just as a personal preference and transference to my olympic movements. I know ripp doesnt advocate it, but i figured you guys would be a great source for advice in general. not so much low-bar specific.

[Raskolnikov]

Is this contributing to the hip slide in the hole? I seem to have much more efficient hip drive when I get the bar real low on my back.

I'm far from the most experienced guy here, but I've spent a lot more time high bar squatting than low bar squatting. And, in my experience, it's quite hard to eliminate all forward knee movement in the hole, especially if you are hitting the limits of your range of motion (going "atg" -- god I hate the term). There's inherently less hamstring tension with a high bar squat, so there's not much to keep the knees back, if you know what I mean. Shoving them out hard and minimizing forward knee drift is still a must, however.

[nisora33]

I'm far from the most experienced guy here, but I've spent a lot more time high bar squatting than low bar squatting. And, in my experience, it's quite hard to eliminate all forward knee movement in the hole, especially if you are hitting the limits of your range of motion (going "atg" -- god I hate the term)...

Yes, this.

[nisora33]

You can check his depth here:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2721/4292757059_a40f58fe0a_o.jpg

The line is drawn from roughly knee-cap level towards his hips. You can see where the crease of the hip is relative to this line. I'm not so sure that's too deep.

On a different note: upon further reflection, and given that this is a high-bar squat, I think he's starting out trying to reach too far back with his hips. Were this a low-bar squat, reaching back with his hips that much might be okay. I think maybe he should just focus on sitting straight down instead of back to begin with.

What does everyone think?

-s.

[Steve Collegio]

Thats interesting you say "focusing on sitting straight down" as opposed to sitting back, which it was it appears i am doing. Would my torso angle be the same int he video if i sat straight down tho?

[Raskolnikov]

For what it's worth, I don't think "hips back" at all when I high bar squat. Instead, I think "knees out" and "ass down between my feet." Keep your chest up and a tight lower back, shove your knees out and forward, and try to put your ass right between your heels. That's what I do, anyways.

@Nisora, I agree, I don't think he's going too deep at al (although he probably couldn't go any deeper if he wanted to). I've just never seen anyone squat high bar to that depth and not have some forward knee movement... but it's not like I've done an exhaustive search, so who knows.

[cjangelo]

On a different note: upon further reflection, and given that this is a high-bar squat, I think he's starting out trying to reach too far back with his hips. Were this a low-bar squat, reaching back with his hips that much might be okay. I think maybe he should just focus on sitting straight down instead of back to begin with.


I've just never seen anyone squat high bar to that depth and not have some forward knee movement...


Maybe if he pushed his knees more forward in the initial descent phase, then the knees-forward movement wouldn't occur in the hole? Does that make sense?

Maybe that accomplishes the same thing as thinking 'sit down'.

Again, I don't know, I'm just trying to learn how to think through this.

[nisora33]

Maybe if he pushed his knees more forward in the initial descent phase, then the knees-forward movement wouldn't occur in the hole? Does that make sense?

Maybe that accomplishes the same thing as thinking 'sit down'.


In this case, yes, I think it would accomplish the same thing. There's no right or wrong cue for Collegio to be using as long as it produces the desired result. Different cues work better for different folks sometimes.

Steve Collegio: how upright you are depends, too great extent, on your individual anthropometry. But by definition, the high-bar squat will not have you leaning forward as much as the low-bar version. What Ras said is what you should be thinking: sit straight down getting the knees out early and aim to put your hips down right between your thighs.

-S.

[cjangelo]

For what it's worth, I don't think "hips back" at all when I high bar squat. Instead, I think "knees out" and "ass down between my feet." Keep your chest up and a tight lower back, shove your knees out and forward, and try to put your ass right between your heels. That's what I do, anyways.



In this case, yes, I think it would accomplish the same thing. There's no right or wrong cue for Collegio to be using as long as it produces the desired result. Different cues work better for different folks sometimes.

Steve Collegio: how upright you are depends, too great extent, on your individual anthropometry. But by definition, the high-bar squat will not have you leaning forward as much as the low-bar version. What Ras said is what you should be thinking: sit straight down getting the knees out early and aim to put your hips down right between your thighs.

-S.

Good talk, guys. I like doing this. This is how I'm going to learn. Thanks for helping.

I guess we shouldn't start jerking each other off just yet--Steve, get back under the bar and post some more videos.

[Steve Collegio]

nothing to it but to do it. Thanks so much guys for your input.

another video. not sure if anyone is familiar with olympic lifts, but here is my 225 clean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtuDZQyxmOA

[nisora33]

nothing to it but to do it. Thanks so much guys for your input.

another video. not sure if anyone is familiar with olympic lifts, but here is my 225 clean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtuDZQyxmOA

Steve, I see an early arm bend plus jumping forward to get under the bar. Granted, I mainly coach the power clean variant, so this is a little outside my balliwick, but try quickly stop-starting the video for yourself right around the moment before you start the 2nd pull, and you'll clearly see that your elbows are already bent.

Anyone else see that?

-S.

[nisora33]

Here is a snapshot of you taken before you start the second pull, bar is just at kneecap level:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4294697030_5418c989ea_o.jpg

You can make out some arm bend, but it's much easier to see it on the video itself of you pause-play it quickly.

-S.

[Steve Collegio]

Wow now that you posted that picture, I can totally see it now. Need to keep my arms locked and straight atleast to my "pockets"