“The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook”

[OITW]

BLUF: Has anyone here used this or a modified version of it, and how did it affect training?

After a long period of little/no training, I'm back in a SS cycle, fairly early and nowhere near my earlier PRs. I'm more than 30 pounds over the Navy's height/weight guidance, and will never be under again. I beat it by keeping my neck and waist in proportion, however, my waist is beating my neck in growth, and I have conspicuously too much fat (it squeezes over and under the training belt). Finally, I have the opportunity to compete in military PL meet in early May. I'd like to lose some of the gut without throwing a wrench into the training works. I've wondered about going ketonic in short bursts to eat into it, but my past experiments haven't been too fruitful.

To continue growing stronger, I can't slack the training too long, but I can't get hyuuuge and then cut, because along the way to hyuuuge some weenie with a tape measure can play Hell with my career. Is Lyle's method likely to help?

[Mr.City]

I know Geoff has done it with good results. It's in his log.

[OITW]

MC, thanks, I've now read his posts and despite results, the starvation involved gives me serious second thoughts.

[PMDL]

BLUF: Has anyone here used this or a modified version of it, and how did it affect training?

I've used it a few times to strip fat off.

Training goes to shit any way you swing it, at least if it lasts longer than a few weeks and if you expect to keep up any kind of volume.

You may be able to maintain intensity, but work capacity is going to the gutter.


After a long period of little/no training, I'm back in a SS cycle, fairly early and nowhere near my earlier PRs. I'm more than 30 pounds over the Navy's height/weight guidance, and will never be under again. I beat it by keeping my neck and waist in proportion, however, my waist is beating my neck in growth, and I have conspicuously too much fat (it squeezes over and under the training belt). Finally, I have the opportunity to compete in military PL meet in early May. I'd like to lose some of the gut without throwing a wrench into the training works. I've wondered about going ketonic in short bursts to eat into it, but my past experiments haven't been too fruitful.

To continue growing stronger, I can't slack the training too long, but I can't get hyuuuge and then cut, because along the way to hyuuuge some weenie with a tape measure can play Hell with my career. Is Lyle's method likely to help?

The fatter you are, the less the diet is going to impact your energy levels and stamina.

That said, listen to his guidelines for the workout. If you do more than he suggests, it will eventually get to you.

What I did recently while doing it and training for a meet was to cut my strength work back to two sessions per week.

Day 1: Cleans, OHP, DL
Day 2: Bench, Squat

Pick a smart progression scheme that doesn't have you grinding out maximal efforts (this is just as important as controlling volume on cals that low). I used a plan adapted from Mike Tuchscherer's RTS system and my own 3-week wave cycle; I don't think the specifics matter that much as long as you're not blowing your wad each workout.

If your recovery can handle it, you might be able to get away with three sessions, but you'll really have to be careful. It's very easy to push past your limits.

[Mr.City]

I know I'll give it a try once I finish SS. Although if you're currently in the military, I don't think starvation would be too helpful. If you don't mind me asking , OITW, what's your carb and calorie consumption like? Are you adding any metcon?

[misspelledgeoff]

+1 on what Matt said about the workouts. I scaled mine back to 2x per week with a fraction of the volume. I've probably upped the intensity a bit, but not so much that I am not recovered by the next workout. Basically I do three fairly heavy sets of three on each exercise with the exception of deads where I did one double and two singles.

I would like to do this for three weeks, but I may not make it. After 10 days it feels like I've been on it for a month.

[Mr.City]

+1 on what Matt said about the workouts. I scaled mine back to 2x per week with a fraction of the volume. I've probably upped the intensity a bit, but not so much that I am not recovered by the next workout. Basically I do three fairly heavy sets of three on each exercise with the exception of deads where I did one double and two singles.

I would like to do this for three weeks, but I may not make it. After 10 days it feels like I've been on it for a month.

Now I really want to try this. It sounds terrible and exciting at the same time.

[MRP]

I'm thinking about trying a "homeade" version of this starting in Feb. Based off of what I read on some fitday logs and the info on the net. Yes I am too cheap right now to buy the book. Goes like this:

Breakfast: 4 Slices Bacon, 4 eggs
Lunch: Portion of Meat, Can of Green Beans
Dinner: Portion on Meat, Can of Green Beans

Meat can be Chicken Breast, Pork Chop, Serving of Fish, Steak.

I know the fat wil be up there on some of the other cuts other than chicken breast but I figure this is my homeade try based on the info available so so what.

All that should put me at around 1200-1300 calories and appx 150-180G Protein.

Add 2x multivitamin and 6x fishoil and go for it!

See how that works for 2 weeks.

So then for lifting I figure I'll go ahead and do a CFWF split and on metcons do some interval sprints. (1600M 200m sprint 200m walk). So try that for 2 weeks and we'll see. I'll post it in my log if I decide to try this for a few weeks.

[Mr.City]

You convinced to check out this book, Geoff. It sounds very interesting.

[Cmanuel]

The severe caloric deficit scares me, I'd hate to lose months of strength training. I'm on a carb cycling approach right now on a plan written by Shelby starnes, losing 1lb a week without any strength loss.

[Robert Beckett]

I tried it about a year ago for maybe 13 days. I lost 11 lbs but I quit because I lost too much strength too quickly. I think I ate too few calories and worked out too infrequently, twice a week. I may try it again soon. If I do, here are the changes I'll make:


Eat more. I may have got the numbers right on paper, but didn't actually eat the prescribed amt. It's hard to force yourself to eat protein shakes made w/ water, or egg white & ham (cheeseless) "omellettes" for very long
Do an IF-style eating schedule, and eat more real food. I think it will be easier to eat a couple of big, actual meals per day rather than try to come up with a variety of multiple small all-protein snack-type meals.
Work out more frequently, but not too much volume per workout. Something like a "full-body" workout every other day (Squats+Chins, Rest,DL+Bench, Rest, Squats+Pullups, Rest,PC+Press, Rest). This would give me 7 lifts per week vs the 9 in the SS program. Maybe reduce to two sets of five instead of three sets if I HAVE to.
Strategically scale back my poundages, ie deliberately take 2.5 lbs off my lifts every WO or two. I don't WANT to lose strength, but if I give a little ground in a controlled way I'm thinking I can maintain the RFL program while minimizing strength loss
If the WO falls on a carb day, add a Tabata rowing or running session. My metcon is really weak, but I'd rather not lose what little I have


On the plus side, I found I was rarely if ever hungry (probably the ephedrine helped) and I discovered that cod fillets baked in the toaster oven w/ a little lemon juice is a quick & tasty meal. On the downside, I lost strength and just basically got "off-track" and it took me a while to get back to where I was. I don't blame the RFL diet - I think I just lost focus and thus stopped eating the right amount. And since I only worked out twice a week, it was harder to make course corrections based on missed reps. Also, I didn't approach the carb refeed days & free meals very responsibly.

One thing I will say; it was really difficult to find edible stuff that was all-protein. Even "protein" bars have too many carbs for this diet.

I was a novice-level lifter and I started at about 25% bodyfat.

[Craig B.]

Check out Dan John's writings on the velocity diet- macros are roughly the same as the RFL, VD is just 95% shakes. He did very well at keeping his strength up. Personally the VD would bore me senseless.

I'd suggest (though you didn't ask) that you first try a straight Very Low Carb diet with less limitations. Sub 28 grams a day of (net) carbs, only from green veggies, more fat than the RFL and a LOT of protein. I was able to lose a ton of weight in my 30's this way after a long period of bulking w/o much strength loss. I think Alwyn Cosgrove calls this "green face"- you can eat any green veggies as much as you like, and anything that had a face. Works.

[lint]

I did it for 7 weeks while following (loosely) 5/3/1. I followed the diet plan pretty much textbook and originally scaled down my workouts to 2x a week, but didn't really feel any adverse effects so I went back to the 3x/week I was doing before. I would say that strength was maintained or perhaps dropped a little, but it wasn't significant given the low calories. It's difficult to get a true measure as I never really test out 1rms, and while on the diet anything over 5 reps was a struggle. I cut out the accessory work to limit volume, but I wouldn't have been able to maintain it anyways. Before RFL, I could hit 30 dips on my 5th set as accessory work, but during RFL I could barely manage 15 dips on my first set. Adding the 30g of quick acting carbs (I used juice and jellybeans) while working out helps. Oh, and during that 7 weeks, I dropped 25lbs of fat.

[PMDL]

The two keys to staying on the RFL/PSMF diet are stimulants and veggies.

The IF strategy is a good one as well. If you get in the habit of not eating that first meal or two to begin with, you can just load up on caffeine and ephedrine if you've got access to it.

When you start eating, veggies are a life-saver. There's only so much meat and egg whites you can eat, and shakes by themselves just make you hungry. I was eating spinach and mushrooms with everything. Add some hot sauce and mustard and you've got a meal. A strange meal, but it will be oddly appealing with the amount of food you're getting.

[Craig B.]

PMDL- sounds like what I did! I couldn't handle being hungry, but a pound or two of meat a day with the same amount (or more) of greenery was fine. Saurkraut is a good thing as well.

[lylemcd]

The severe caloric deficit scares me, I'd hate to lose months of strength training. .

People who actually do what the book says (in terms of both the diet AND training) lose very little if not no strength when they follow the diet.

People who decide to mess with it and do other things (e.g. not eat enough, not follow my training advice and try to maintain a high volume, frequency or both) get fucked.

There's a lesson in there.

Lyle

[Cmanuel]

People who actually do what the book says (in terms of both the diet AND training) lose very little if not no strength when they follow the diet.

People who decide to mess with it and do other things (e.g. not eat enough, not follow my training advice and try to maintain a high volume, frequency or both) get fucked.

There's a lesson in there.

Lyle

Gotcha. Thanks for the input. I haven't actually read the book yet, so maybe I should wait to pass judgement on the diet until I've read it.

Its great having you here on the forum though, I'm a big fan of your work, especially the ketogenic diet (i use it as a reference book all the time)
-CM

[Robert Beckett]

People who decide to mess with it and do other things (e.g. not eat enough, not follow my training advice and try to maintain a high volume, frequency or both) get fucked.

There's a lesson in there.

Lyle

I can't argue with this. In fact, I'm planning on giving it a go again and paying a little more attention to what I'm doing this time.

Lyle, you give a sample training plan in the Home Exercise Handbook, but what is your opinion of using a more SS-style plan based around 5-ish reps of the Big Lifts for 2 or 3 sets?

Nevermind I just reread the RFL Handbook and you answer me there.

[PMDL]

As I said, I used it in the early phases of training for my last meet. It worked well enough, no issues with strength because I was keeping volume in check and only lifting twice a week.

Strength was actually going up (though bear in mind I'm a 'muscle memory' case where most of you freshmen types aren't).

[mcsquared]

The whole concept of abdominal circumference testing in the military is understandable but frustrating. They're trying to curtail incidents of heart disease, diabetes, etc, but via an arbitrary test. This is just I mean, waist circumference can change based on how the test is done and the time of day, just like weight measurement.

I'm active-duty USAF and I'm on my novice progression with plenty of room to still grow and get stronger. However, just like the OP was sayin', some dude has the chance to ruin my career with a tape-measure if I don't keep my waist circumference in check. I'll definitely keep these options in mind cause I'm gonna run into this problem later, more likely than not.

[Craig B.]

People who actually do what the book says (in terms of both the diet AND training) lose very little if not no strength when they follow the diet.

People who decide to mess with it and do other things (e.g. not eat enough, not follow my training advice and try to maintain a high volume, frequency or both) get fucked.

There's a lesson in there.

Lyle

Yeah, that there is! And it's the one no one ever want to learn!

Good to see you here, Lyle- we met at the Bash.

Craig

[WatsupHannity]

How acceptable is Coke Zero while dieting?

[Mr.City]

Diet drinks are okay. I highly recommend everyone check out the book, or at the very least, Lyle's forums. I learned a lot about the diet.