Doing a Keto Diet - advice pls :)

[Aslin]

I'm thinking about doing either a CKD or TKD to cut with, I just wanna ask if anyones got any experiance dieting while doing this program?

Is it best to try and maintain 5rms instead of thinking about progressing?


Is there anything you guys changed when doing the diet? I'm thinking of only DLing on a friday before the carb up....

[Mr.City]

What does CKD and TKD mean?

[Aslin]

Cyclical ketogenic diet, and Targeted ketogenic diet.


google it, there's loads of stuff about this.

[lylemcd]

CKD = cyclical ketogenic diet. Referring to a diet which alternates some period (5-12 days) of very low carb eating with a high-carb refeed (1-2 days typically)

TKD = targeted ketogenic diet. You stay vey low carb all the time except for the intake of carbs (25-50 grams typically) before/after training. this gives all of the 'benefits' of low-carb diets while allowing folks to maintain training intensity.

On a diet, generally you should mainly try to maintain weights. If you make progress, great but it's easy to burn out/overtrain when calories are down. If you schedule one heavy workout after a typical CKD carb-load, that's when you should try to make improvements. So say you train Friday into a Sat-Sun carb-load. You will be STRONG on Monday by dint of being carb-loaded, etc. If you ar going to bump weights, do it on taht workouts. But again, be very aware of the potential to overtrain while cutting.

Lyle

[Aslin]

CKD = cyclical ketogenic diet. Referring to a diet which alternates some period (5-12 days) of very low carb eating with a high-carb refeed (1-2 days typically)

TKD = targeted ketogenic diet. You stay vey low carb all the time except for the intake of carbs (25-50 grams typically) before/after training. this gives all of the 'benefits' of low-carb diets while allowing folks to maintain training intensity.

On a diet, generally you should mainly try to maintain weights. If you make progress, great but it's easy to burn out/overtrain when calories are down. If you schedule one heavy workout after a typical CKD carb-load, that's when you should try to make improvements. So say you train Friday into a Sat-Sun carb-load. You will be STRONG on Monday by dint of being carb-loaded, etc. If you ar going to bump weights, do it on taht workouts. But again, be very aware of the potential to overtrain while cutting.

Lyle


Thanks man, I think i'm gonna just try to ramp up to top set of 5 instead of doing 3x5 across... Dont wanna overtrain.


Edit, I've just realised it's you Lyle who's posting lol, Your book is great, I'm about 80 pages in.

[lylemcd]

My general 'rules' on maintenance are that you can cut volume (and often frequency) by up to 2/3rds so long as you maintain intensity. So if you were doing 3X5 across or even 5X5 across, you can probably do warmups to 2X5 at a top weight just fine.

Most find that work capacity drops more than top end and the key to maintaining strength/muscle on a diet is keeping the poundage on the bar. So better 2 good sets with sufficient weight than a bunch of half-assed sets.

Lyle

[OITW]

My general 'rules' on maintenance are that you can cut volume (and often frequency) by up to 2/3rds so long as you maintain intensity. So if you were doing 3X5 across or even 5X5 across, you can probably do warmups to 2X5 at a top weight just fine.

Most find that work capacity drops more than top end and the key to maintaining strength/muscle on a diet is keeping the poundage on the bar. So better 2 good sets with sufficient weight than a bunch of half-assed sets.

Lyle

Lyle, just a note of thanks for your comments on this and on other threads.

[Aslin]

My general 'rules' on maintenance are that you can cut volume (and often frequency) by up to 2/3rds so long as you maintain intensity. So if you were doing 3X5 across or even 5X5 across, you can probably do warmups to 2X5 at a top weight just fine.

Most find that work capacity drops more than top end and the key to maintaining strength/muscle on a diet is keeping the poundage on the bar. So better 2 good sets with sufficient weight than a bunch of half-assed sets.

Lyle

I'm literally on the 5th day of doing TKD (second lifting day was today), and already i've found a loss in my ability to do volume, I really struggled with a 267lb squat for 3 sets... I'll take your advice and see what happens when I do 2 working sets (maybe try 3 on a monday after the carb up?). Like I've said I'm new to ketogenic diets, and I need to read your book.

thanks.

Also Lyle, would you recommend a TKD or CKD approach to Rippetoes program? The program is pretty much all the physical exercise I do.


My fat requirements are also lower than my protein requirements... Is that normal?

how I worked it out...

My bodyweight - 215lbs (recalcualted after 5 days of water loss)
LBM - 180lbs
protein - 180g's
fat (215*13 = 2795 - 500 for defecit - 720 protein calories = 1575 / 9 = 175) soo 175g's of fat....

Sorry for probably asking you shit thats in your book.

[lylemcd]

TKD will probably maintain performance better on a day to day basis since you're getting some carbs/protein arond each workout. But it's not as much fun cuz you do'nt get to eat a box of Cap'n Crunch on the weekend.

To really optimize a CKD means making some training adjustments although it can be done with nothing but heavy work. It's better if you synch up the training with the metabolic state of the diet.

In the case of a SS/Rip type approach, that means that TKD would probably be better. You'll maintain performance better on all ofthe days instead of just the one(s) right after the carb-load.

Depending on your initial BF%age, throwing in the occasional longer refeed (e.g. 5-12 hours) is not a bad idea as well for a variety of reasons.

And a properly set up keto diet for fat loss will usually have dietary fat equal or slightly lower than protein. It's just how it works out when you set calories and protein intake appropriately. Fat will come out lower than that (The old keto diets that were 75% fat invariably shorted protein).

Hope that helps
Lyle

[Mr.City]

It's great that you're posting here, Lyle.

[PVC]

Welcome to the forums Lyle.

[Sami]

Welcome to the forums Lyle.

lol, Lyle's been a member since Aug 2007.

[OMG]

It's great that you're posting here, Lyle.



I agree with Mr. City. Thanks for all the great info and advice! I am planning on this weekend to get your book. I am looking forward to it.

[Aslin]

I agree with Mr. City. Thanks for all the great info and advice! I am planning on this weekend to get your book. I am looking forward to it.


It's great to have the gods of strength training and nutrition both in one place :).

[zepled37]

On a diet, generally you should mainly try to maintain weights. If you make progress, great but it's easy to burn out/overtrain when calories are down.

Lyle


Along these lines, I've kinda been wondering if a "Hepburn" type progression would be better when cutting fat. That is instead of trying to add weight every workout or once a week, you pick a weight for 5 sets of 3 and add one rep to one set each time you do that workout until you get to 5 sets of 5. This way seems a little less stressful mentally and maybe physically as you aren't always trying to go up in weight, just one more rep.

Similarly, you could do 3 singles and progress to 5 singles until adding weight.

Still have to watch out on the volume I suppose when dieting.

[lylemcd]

Or just maintain current poundages and be done with it until the diet is over.

[brobinson]

I'm into my third week of the TKD. I've been very happy with the results so far, weight down from 283 to 269 lbs, -2" around the waist.

I like the TKD the best because it's very easy to setup, controls hunger and doesn't lend itself to the likeliness of binging the CKD would for me.

For anybody else considering the same, I recommend reading Lyle's Ketogenic Diet and Rapid fatloss books to understand the physiology and proper setup protocols.

[lylemcd]

The Ketogenic Diet book will also help massively if you have insomnia. A few pages at bedtime and you'll be out like a light.