Bench Grip Width - too wide?

[confuzzl3don3]

After seeing MrCity asking about grip width on the bench, i started thinking if mine was too wide as well. Especially since i'm starting to feel like my traps are tight and sore after benching. (not sure if this is normal)

I take a semi-wide grip with my pinkies on the rings of a standard olympic bar. When i go down to my chest, my forearms are perpendicular to the ground, but i have extreme elbow flare. If i try to tuck my elbows more, it hits my lower chest rather than my mid-chest (nipple line)

I've tried using a narrower grip, and i can still get perpendicular forearms to the ground but i have to tuck my elbows more to hit my mid-chest.

I like the wider grip, because i can lift way more weight (my triceps are very weak).

Here's a vid to see my elbow flaring.

Bench - 61.5kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj2O1qBRTTk

[Paul Sousa]

Hey confuzz, in my opinion you are probably too wide. The reason I say it is based solely on my experience. I used to grip about as wide as you are and it was fine until the weights got around 200+. Once I got there I started having alot of shoulder issues. I brought my grip in, tucked my elbows, and now my shoulders feel fine (my most recent set was 230lbsx7 with no shoulder pain).

[Force Production]

Rep one: You push straight up out of the bottom, you struggle.

Rep two: You press more diagonally, like you should, you don't struggle. Elbows are in line with the bar. Look how easy this rep is compared to the others. It's very smooth, very good. If you could get all reps like this...

Rep three: You touch too low thus putting your elbow-to-bar-relationship in a weaker position.

Rep four: Did you bend your wrists here? The bar looks a bit too much behind you. Your left arm also lags behind here (I think you've mentioned this before.)

Rep five...there is no rep five in the video... :)



Conclusion: What you need is just more practice to get a better bar path by hitting the same spot on the chest and keeping your elbows in line with the bar.

You could try a cue like "elbows forward!" to get them straight. (But this depends on your mental image of your elbow position.)



Look in SS, the bench chapter, at the pictures of elbow positions, your current set up seems correct. (Some more opinions on this would be nice, I'm not 100% sure.)

[confuzzl3don3]

Hey confuzz, in my opinion you are probably too wide. The reason I say it is based solely on my experience. I used to grip about as wide as you are and it was fine until the weights got around 200+. Once I got there I started having alot of shoulder issues. I brought my grip in, tucked my elbows, and now my shoulders feel fine (my most recent set was 230lbsx7 with no shoulder pain).

Yeah, i thought maybe it was a bit too much elbow flaring. I'll consider lowering the weight so i can do it with a narrower grip, but i want to see what some others think.


Rep one: You push straight up out of the bottom, you struggle.

Rep two: You press more diagonally, like you should, you don't struggle. Elbows are in line with the bar. Look how easy this rep is compared to the others. It's very smooth, very good. If you could get all reps like this...

Rep three: You touch too low thus putting your elbow-to-bar-relationship in a weaker position.

Rep four: Did you bend your wrists here? The bar looks a bit too much behind you. Your left arm also lags behind here (I think you've mentioned this before.)

Rep five...there is no rep five in the video... :)



Conclusion: What you need is just more practice to get a better bar path by hitting the same spot on the chest and keeping your elbows in line with the bar.

You could try a cue like "elbows forward!" to get them straight. (But this depends on your mental image of your elbow position.)



Look in SS, the bench chapter, at the pictures of elbow positions, your current set up seems correct. (Some more opinions on this would be nice, I'm not 100% sure.)

Yeah i see that sometimes i don't get my elbows under the bar as much, because i'm trying to tuck my elbows more but still hit mid-chest, but with my grip i usually end up hitting lower on my chest causing the bar to be further down my body than my elbows.

So you don't think my grip is too wide?

[Paul Sousa]

Just so you know, if you do narrow your grip you will have to touch lower on your chest to keep your hands over your elbows. I touch basically between my nipples and my solar plexus.

[quadancer]

How can anyone tell the grip from the side? Put the cam in front of you.
And as far as position, I'm more into powerlifting styles; you're flat on your back with no arch, which leaves me and Rip in a slight disagreement on mechanics, but I'll go with the guys moving major tonnage. And it has worked for me, getting me a 350 lift once and maybe this year again.

[Paul Sousa]

How can anyone tell the grip from the side? Put the cam in front of you.
And as far as position, I'm more into powerlifting styles; you're flat on your back with no arch, which leaves me and Rip in a slight disagreement on mechanics, but I'll go with the guys moving major tonnage. And it has worked for me, getting me a 350 lift once and maybe this year again.

I am basing it off of his forearm angle and his arm being at an almost 90 degree angle to his body. It requires a fairly wide grip to look like that.

[confuzzl3don3]

Just so you know, if you do narrow your grip you will have to touch lower on your chest to keep your hands over your elbows. I touch basically between my nipples and my solar plexus.

I think you touch lower if you keep the same amount of elbow flare. But if i tuck my elbows more i can get the bar to hit the mid-chest even with a narrower grip.


How can anyone tell the grip from the side? Put the cam in front of you.
And as far as position, I'm more into powerlifting styles; you're flat on your back with no arch, which leaves me and Rip in a slight disagreement on mechanics, but I'll go with the guys moving major tonnage. And it has worked for me, getting me a 350 lift once and maybe this year again.

Well i have taken some front on vids, but maybe because the camera position is just level or maybe a bit higher than the bench, you can't really see where i hit my chest, but you can see that my forearms are perpendicular to the ground. Also my grip is pinkies on the rings of the olympic bar.


I am basing it off of his forearm angle and his arm being at an almost 90 degree angle to his body. It requires a fairly wide grip to look like that.

Yeah my grip as i've said at the start is with my pinkies on the rings of the olympic bar.

[lylemcd]

Read this

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/bench-press-technique.html

and this
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/more-on-bench-pressing.html

and this (mainly to clarify a bit of my own stupidity in the second piece, it's not relevant if you're not shirted)
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/guest-blog-more-about-shirted-benching.html

[PVC]

Hey confuzz, in my opinion you are probably too wide.

That's what she said.

And to quadancer and lyle: the benching technique that Rip advocates is not a powerlifting style of bench, and in SS he explicitly states this and discusses the differences between the two. He advocates his technique for novices for the purpose of general strength training because it allows the different muscles involved in the bench press to be trained evenly while still allowing a decent amount of weight to be moved.

[quadancer]

I know; that's why I mentioned that. I just hang out on this one for fun.

[confuzzl3don3]

Ok guys so i tried narrowing my grip and see if it's better. I still don't think i've got the whole elbow tucking thing right but take a look for me.

Bench with just the bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWKgbNDNHjM

Bench - 60kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrFgN5sAGJA

[nisora33]

Ok guys so i tried narrowing my grip and see if it's better. I still don't think i've got the whole elbow tucking thing right but take a look for me.

Bench with just the bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWKgbNDNHjM

Bench - 60kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrFgN5sAGJA

Much better, Confuzz. But I'm curious, what are you're feet doing?

-S.

[OMG]

Much better, Confuzz. But I'm curious, what are you're feet doing?

-S.


Nisora33, he is benching more then you, lol, just playing. Good grip and hand position, I am also curious where his feet is.

[confuzzl3don3]

I dunno. On the ground. My bench forks out at the end sort of like this ---< , so i have to put more feet even further out than them. Makes a sort of weird angle, if that's what you're talking about.

[Gottatri2lift]

regarding your grip width, what does it measure between index fingers? Rip goes for 22-28 for most lifters, unless you have freakishly long arms or torso.... I don't think you do. If you have a cloth tape measure it is fairly easy to make sure you aren't too wide or too narrow. At my gym 28 inches is identified by the smooth ring on both sides of the bar.
If this is too elementary let me know.

[confuzzl3don3]

I'll take a look, but if the bar at your gym is a normal olympic bar, then i used to always have my pinkies on the ring. I've tried a bit narrower to see if i can get more elbow tuck, but it doesn't seem to have done much. I'll upload a side view of my 60kg set tomorow

[OITW]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Sousa http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?p=95633#post95633)
Hey confuzz, in my opinion you are probably too wide.



That's what she said.

Followed immediately after with, "Try again!"

[confuzzl3don3]

Sorry OITW. Confused at what you mean....are you saying i should try to narrow the grip right? I did, and asking if i need to change it further.

[Paul Sousa]

I think the new clip looks great as far as your grip goes. I am wondering the same thing about your feet though. Are you pushing them against the floor to create tension in your whole body? Just like the press you want to be tight from your hands to your feet.

[quadancer]

He is not pushing with the feet as far as the quads show; legs look like they're just laying there. Hands were perfect, according to Rip's description on body mechanics - hands straight above elbows when bar is on chest is longest ROM and best for strength development.

[confuzzl3don3]

Ok so i uploaded a vid from the same workout but from the side view. Take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BqzGvUKzrM

[confuzzl3don3]

And next time i'll try and get my feet in the vid as well, so you guys can tell me whether i'm planting them properly or not

[cycomiko]

with your last clip that actually allowed a view of what you are doing (side view is not good) the grip should be a touch wider. But ultimately, play around with grip that allows you to have a mix between strong off the chest and moderate lockout.

[confuzzl3don3]

^So now you're saying my grip is too narrow? and i should get it wider again after i was told to make it a touch narrower? ok i'm confused....

[Nauticus]

Looked fine to me..

[cycomiko]

^So now you're saying my grip is too narrow? and i should get it wider again after i was told to make it a touch narrower? ok i'm confused....


I am saying your grip is possibly too narrow.

Others said that it should be narrower.

You choose what you want.

[Koalala]

Just wondering wether grip width is a function of arm length or shoulder width.
I know its should witdth in the press but I wasn't sure about the bench.
(I am 195cm and have my index fingers on the ring).

[confuzzl3don3]

Koalala i think it's a both. If your shoulders are really wide, then you'll probably need a wider grip. If your humerus is really long, you'll also need a wider grip.

[cycomiko]

Just wondering wether grip width is a function of arm length or shoulder width.
I know its should witdth in the press but I wasn't sure about the bench.
(I am 195cm and have my index fingers on the ring).

its a function of radius/ulna length, humerus lenght, shoulder width as well as the muscle attachment points on said muscles.

Ultimately, with a raw lifter, there is a sticking point x amount above the chest. You can alter where that sticking point is by manipulating the width of the grip.

Closer = further up, wider = lower down

for a lot of raw lifters, closer will be better because its easier to fix lockout than fixing off the chest. Just look at James Henderson, Mendy, hoornstra, et al. Even coan who was a mad bencher for somebody with monkey long arms, benched at a moderate grip.

But of course, not all. Mike MacDOnald was a fairly wide .

Ultimately a bit of playing around is required to work out where you are at your strongest. To add to the fun, this sweet spot can change depending on other components in your training

[Brenden]

Attached is a screencap from your first video, with a diagram of where it looks like your humerus is. Does that look right?

I should preface my remarks by saying that my bench press is atrocious, and until I went and found a powerlifting coach, I wasn't using my pecs, traps or legs at all in the lift. I'm still only benching 135. But looking at the video, your form looks a lot like what mine used to be. The cue that helped me a lot in terms of recruiting the pecs and lats was to think about squeezing my elbows in on the rebound. As the wrists begin to rise, try to rotate the elbows in towards the chest. This might also require the bar to be further down your torso, which requires a smaller angle betwen the humerus and torso, which I think would be a good thing in your case.

As I said, I suck at benching, so this advice might be totally off. But after I began using that cue, I was no longer stalled. So if you feel like your pecs and lats aren't really helping at all, that might help.

[confuzzl3don3]

Yeah as i said, i think i could benefit from more tucking. I already feel quite sore in my shoulders (no actual pain) but i am worried about all those people saying how their killed their shoulder doing heavy benches, and i'm worried that if i don't fix up my form, later down the track i might have their same fate.

Although your picture doesn't look half bad, it's just that going back up my arms instantly go back to a 'T' position where my humerus is at 90 degrees with my body. That's what worries me.