Why are squats so fucking hard!

[confuzzl3don3]

Before i deloaded and injured my back for a week or 2, i had hit a wall at 103kg squat. I probably weighed about 72-73kg then. 2-3 weeks later after deloading, switching up to a light (80% of monday's workset) workout on wednesday and weighing 75kg, i just did 103.5kg and got crushed pretty hard. Repped out a 4/5/4 pretty ugly set.

Squat 103.5kg for 4 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43PdLoG2Krg

Squat 102.5kg for comparison, though they're pretty ugly too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-q18ElxobA

And after doing hangcleans for a few weeks, i've switched back to powercleans and hopefully have some improvement.

Powerclean 46kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyoIKYeTzjk

I think i hit the thigh a bit too low, and also the first rep was a pretty bad rack. Anyone know how to fix it? I find that i usually get a bad rack when i don't think enough of shooting elbows up and more importantly i seem to have a tight grip on the bar. It's like i almost got to think of letting go of the bar while i'm jumping to get a good rack.

Thanks guys.

[Mr.City]

Does it feel like a good morning or like the bar is trying to bending you over on the way up?

[confuzzl3don3]

Yeah i feel like the bar is bending me over, and maybe the last rep or two seems like it's almost a good morning to me

[Mr.City]

Ah ha! You're head flopping. I did this when squat started to get real heavy. You're changing your perspective mid-squat when you look up, which is causing you too move the bar slighting forward of the mid-foot. Keep you eyes on the floor and don't close your eyes.

[Raskolnikov]

As far as the power cleans go, I think you'd benefit from staying over the bar longer. You lift your chest/open up your hips almost as soom as the bar leaves the ground. Maintain a constant back angle with your shoulders over the bar until the bar is well passes your knees, then jump.

[confuzzl3don3]

Ah ha! You're head flopping. I did this when squat started to get real heavy. You're changing your perspective mid-squat when you look up, which is causing you too move the bar slighting forward of the mid-foot. Keep you eyes on the floor and don't close your eyes.

I knew my head was changing position but i never knew that it'd make that much of a difference. I just feel that if i keep looking down my back would round and it's really difficult to keep chest up.


As far as the power cleans go, I think you'd benefit from staying over the bar longer. You lift your chest/open up your hips almost as soom as the bar leaves the ground. Maintain a constant back angle with your shoulders over the bar until the bar is well passes your knees, then jump.

I'll try that. The thing is when i get over the bar, i always end up catching the bar behind (i'm bending back). If i stay more behind, i seem to get a mroe vertical bar path. I don't know why.

[LondonTiger]

it may be psychological..

do quater squats with 140kg

and then do a 1rm with 110kg

that will make your current working weights easy

[gzt]

it may be psychological..

do quater squats with 140kg

and then do a 1rm with 110kg

that will make your current working weights easy
Maybe if he did rack pulls...

[misspelledgeoff]

here's a couple of things I've been working on that might help.

1) Intensity. Take a look at Justin's 455 squat video on 70's big. He's doing that for 5x5, but every rep goes up slow like one of my 1RM PRs. But he just fucking grinds it out. The takeaway is Know the squat is going to be fuck-all hard but commit to it and grind it out like your life depended on it. Take the set one rep at a time. Most times your body can do it but your brain tells you ' this shit is too heavy'. Tell your brain to STFU.

2) Heavy walkout right before your workset. Load the bar up with 30kg more than your workset. Get under it and walk it out. Stand there with it on your back for 5-10 seconds. Rack it and wait 2-3 minutes. Do your workset. By comparison your workset wont feel as heavy.

[JCavin]

2) Heavy walkout right before your workset. Load the bar up with 30kg more than your workset. Get under it and walk it out. Stand there with it on your back for 5-10 seconds. Rack it and wait 2-3 minutes. Do your workset. By comparison your workset wont feel as heavy.


That is an awesome idea. I'm definitely gonna try that out on a day that the shit feels heavy. Thanks!

[nisora33]

2) Heavy walkout right before your workset. Load the bar up with 30kg more than your workset. Get under it and walk it out. Stand there with it on your back for 5-10 seconds. Rack it and wait 2-3 minutes. Do your workset. By comparison your workset wont feel as heavy.


Shit works.

[metermanja]

here's a couple of things I've been working on that might help.


2) Heavy walkout right before your workset. Load the bar up with 30kg more than your workset. Get under it and walk it out. Stand there with it on your back for 5-10 seconds. Rack it and wait 2-3 minutes. Do your workset. By comparison your workset wont feel as heavy.

darn, thats a good idea. will try it saturday. i am stalling and regresing at 260 lb. this might help.

[Casey Dupre]

That's an interesting idea...

[grambo]

Just watched the power cleans, you are moving the bar around your knees instead of pulling your knees back out of the way, this is putting you in a non-ideal jumping position and is also taking tension off your posterior chain. Bar path should be vertical and back angle constant until bar is past knees, then move to pockets and explode. Faster elbows would help a bit too.

[confuzzl3don3]

I agree with the others that your idea, misspelled, seems interesting. Will try.

And grambo, i hear you. Rask mentioned it earlier how i need to keep a constant back angle. I'll try again and vid my next attempt

[confuzzl3don3]

Dunno if it was your walkout Misspelledgeoff, but i tried it and managed to do my 3x5 at 103.5kg. I made the last set shit hard for myself by not tightening the collar enough on the left side and it ended up loosening and as tilted to the left getting worse throughout the set as i tried to fiddle with the bar to compensate. Thought i hadn't placed the bar centre or something and only realised at the end. Well still kudos to your awesome walkout idea. Hope this set was better.

Squat 103.5kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0ddLv9LRG4

[misspelledgeoff]

way to tuff it out. looking strong!

[Gottatri2lift]

Great idea misspelledgeoff about heavy walkout work.

I think that if you come out of the rack strong then mentally it is easier to think you can accomplish the squat.

[IWillLiveFreeOrDie]

Geoff,

The heavy walkout idea sounds like a winner. I felt I was stalling when I tried to break 300, and the sticking point was the walkout. So I added some weight and just focused on the walkout. It makes the lighter weight feel a lot better. I'm going to make this a permanent fixture in my routine. Thanks! :D

[todd]

Conf, it looks like you might not be completely locking your knees out between reps. I used to do that and found that I was less tired at the end of the set if I supported the weight locked out while I reset and got my breath between reps.

[misspelledgeoff]

I can't take credit for it. I read it in a book by Pavel Tsatsouline (Beyond Bodybuilding or some such thing). His recommendation is to do it prior to going for a new PR. But I tried it prior to going for a heavy workset and it seemed to work well.

[confuzzl3don3]

Good eyes todd, i'll try and remember to lockout for my next workout tomorrow.

And misspelledgeoff, even if it ain't your idea, awesome work for introducing it to us :D

[Blah3]

Try to keep looking down mate. Honestly you will have so much more power.

Great work by the way

[confuzzl3don3]

Yah i know, but i need to get my looking down right. One guy commented that i'm trying to look too much down instead of 5-6 feet in front of me causing me to have a hard time trying to keep my back angle and therefore i instinctively look up. Do you guys see the same thing?

[rjg91680]

Yah i know, but i need to get my looking down right. One guy commented that i'm trying to look too much down instead of 5-6 feet in front of me causing me to have a hard time trying to keep my back angle and therefore i instinctively look up. Do you guys see the same thing?

It's hard to know what your head angle should be and what you should be looking at when you're squatting directly in front of the wall. I've either switched the setup around so that I'm facing outside the rack or I find a vertical line on the wall/column in front of me, lock my eyes onto it, and then have my eyes "ride" it all the way down.

Alternatively, I guess you could put a tennis ball under your chin per the squat chapter in SS.

[confuzzl3don3]

I've tried the tennis ball trick for BW squats but i don't think i'll be using that when i squat my worksets. I'll try and figure out a spot on the wall that will correspond with a good head angle. Thanks

[Blah3]

You do look like your looking a little too low. Your also slowly raising it as you come up out of the whole like your trying to lift it with your head.

Try looking at the top of the skirting board in front of you and keep your gaze there all the way even at the top. You have the weight in control on the way down and it looks like if you focus your gaze there it will help considerably. Give it a try.

[Jake Galgon]

Ah ha! You're head flopping. I did this when squat started to get real heavy. You're changing your perspective mid-squat when you look up, which is causing you too move the bar slighting forward of the mid-foot. Keep you eyes on the floor and don't close your eyes.

Worldshattering post. I think I'm doing this.

[jeremyfirth]

Someone else mentioned the tennis ball, and while I don't recommend using it for your work sets, I've been using one for about three workouts during all my warm-up sets, and it's helped a lot. Now if I could only find a tennis-ball equivalent for keeping my elbows up. I had the good-morning squat problem, and for me, keeping my elbows up has been the cue I have to yell at myself.

[Robert Callahan]

I can't believe no one else has said this yet, maybe they did and I just missed it, but dude your squats are so hard because you are fucking skinny as hell!!!! Eat some damn food, drink your milk and gain 30lbs and your squats will get a whole hell of a lot easier. No reason why you should not be 85-90kg (~195lbs).

[TomC]

I can't believe no one else has said this yet, maybe they did and I just missed it, but dude your squats are so hard because you are fucking skinny as hell!!!! Eat some damn food, drink your milk and gain 30lbs and your squats will get a whole hell of a lot easier. No reason why you should not be 85-90kg (~195lbs).

It has been said before. Several times.

[62jeroen]

Why would it be easier to double your body weight on the bar at 75kg than it would be at 95kg? At a higher body weight you will be stronger, but not relatively stronger. I do not understand this obsession with gaining weight so quickly, on the body as well as on the bar (it is clear to me that the topic starter is not a professional athlete or competing powerlifter). If you like weight lifting, you will have the rest of your life to lift increasingly higher weights. Being in a hurry only means that you will hit your plateau earlier and have much bigger chances to get injured. Read through the training logs and you see what happens. A lot of stalls and lack of progression due to injuries. Often coming from incorrect technique and too much weight.

[misspelledgeoff]

Why are you here?


Why would it be easier to double your body weight on the bar at 75kg than it would be at 95kg? At a higher body weight you will be stronger, but not relatively stronger. I do not understand this obsession with gaining weight so quickly, on the body as well as on the bar (it is clear to me that the topic starter is not a professional athlete or competing powerlifter). If you like weight lifting, you will have the rest of your life to lift increasingly higher weights. Being in a hurry only means that you will hit your plateau earlier and have much bigger chances to get injured. Read through the training logs and you see what happens. A lot of stalls and lack of progression due to injuries. Often coming from incorrect technique and too much weight.

[nisora33]

Why would it be easier to double your body weight on the bar at 75kg than it would be at 95kg? At a higher body weight you will be stronger, but not relatively stronger. I do not understand this obsession with gaining weight so quickly, on the body as well as on the bar (it is clear to me that the topic starter is not a professional athlete or competing powerlifter). If you like weight lifting, you will have the rest of your life to lift increasingly higher weights. Being in a hurry only means that you will hit your plateau earlier and have much bigger chances to get injured. Read through the training logs and you see what happens. A lot of stalls and lack of progression due to injuries. Often coming from incorrect technique and too much weight.

Troll harder.

[Gary Gibson]

Why would it be easier to double your body weight on the bar at 75kg than it would be at 95kg? At a higher body weight you will be stronger, but not relatively stronger. I do not understand this obsession with gaining weight so quickly, on the body as well as on the bar (it is clear to me that the topic starter is not a professional athlete or competing powerlifter). If you like weight lifting, you will have the rest of your life to lift increasingly higher weights. Being in a hurry only means that you will hit your plateau earlier and have much bigger chances to get injured. Read through the training logs and you see what happens. A lot of stalls and lack of progression due to injuries. Often coming from incorrect technique and too much weight.

I used to say the same stupid shit when I was 150 lbs with a 245 squat.

[LondonTiger]

I agree with 62jeroen, somewhat.

Especially the bit about having the rest of your whole goddam life so there's no need to rush your training, and also the fact that it's better to be patient than to rush and get yourself injured and sit out from training, having had my back fucked, and it's taken me 4 months to get to match my deadlift PR, I have to say, it's far better to be patient and do the moves properly than keep progressing up weights and developing bad habits.

I dunno, I guess I'm not into powerlifting, I just do SS for my strength conditioning for my muay thai, but then most of the guys on this forum aren;t powerlifters either.

[nisora33]

...having the rest of your whole goddam life...


No, you don't, actually. Your capacity to build and maintain muscle mass decreases with age. Testosterone levels begin to taper off as early as your mid-thirties. If you're going to get within a certain distance of your lifetime genetic potential, you'd better be making fairly decent progress already by that time, or else you'll never be as strong as you could have been. You don't get to argue with mother nature, she wins every time.



better to be patient than to rush and get yourself injured and sit out from training

Who's encouraging you to increase weight at the expense of form? Who? Rip isn't. Am I? Someone in this thread, or in another one? Show me.



I guess I'm not into powerlifting.

Doesn't matter. Strength is useful. How far you build it is up to you, true, but most here have only barely started the journey, and and an even smaller percentage of those starting out will even make it to intermediate level of advancement, which is good level at which to evaluate how much stronger you'd like to get out of concern for your sport, your job, your future well-being, etc.

And it doesn't matter that most here will never be competitive powerlifters either. Getting strong is expensive both in terms of time and money spent. Grocery bills become enormous when you eat a lot. Linear progression is the most efficient way to get the job done and make the most of time and money spent. Besides, strength is an investment. You get more out of it than what you paid in, eventually. So why you'd want to dick around doing things slower than absolutely necessary is beyond me.

-S.

[BruteForce]

I agree with 62jeroen, somewhat.

Especially the bit about having the rest of your whole goddam life so there's no need to rush your training, and also the fact that it's better to be patient than to rush and get yourself injured and sit out from training, having had my back fucked, and it's taken me 4 months to get to match my deadlift PR, I have to say, it's far better to be patient and do the moves properly than keep progressing up weights and developing bad habits.

I dunno, I guess I'm not into powerlifting, I just do SS for my strength conditioning for my muay thai, but then most of the guys on this forum aren;t powerlifters either.

True, if your goal is simple physical fitness and have respectable lifts. BUT, just as nisora said, if you want to push your bodies absolute genetic potential, you have to start early, and hammer it as much as possible. It is also important to decide whether you want to push your natural genetic limit, or drug assisted. Either way, you are only going to be able to make large strides towards you absolute limit until your mid 30s at the latest. The best BBers and Powerlifters reach the pinnacle of their respective sports mid to late 30s. The vast majority of them make zero size improvements after mid 30's, they only work on conditioning, exercise form, and technique.

No one has said that anyone should sacrifice form for weight moved.

All to say, if you are a weekend warrior (which it sounds like you are) you shouldnt be concerned about pushing yourself as hard and fast as possible.

[Robert Callahan]

Why would it be easier to double your body weight on the bar at 75kg than it would be at 95kg? At a higher body weight you will be stronger, but not relatively stronger. I do not understand this obsession with gaining weight so quickly, on the body as well as on the bar (it is clear to me that the topic starter is not a professional athlete or competing powerlifter). If you like weight lifting, you will have the rest of your life to lift increasingly higher weights. Being in a hurry only means that you will hit your plateau earlier and have much bigger chances to get injured. Read through the training logs and you see what happens. A lot of stalls and lack of progression due to injuries. Often coming from incorrect technique and too much weight.

What is the goddamn obsession with being about to lift multiples of your body weight??? Is it easier to lift 2x your body weight when you weigh 150lbs, sure, but WHO CARES!?!?! Unless you are a competitive lifter competing in a specific weight class then no one cares about how much of your body weight you can squat. They care what the number is, not the number divided by your body weight.

And who said to rush to put weight on the bar at the expense of form?? If he is eating enough to gain weight while lifting heavy that means he is getting enough food to recovery optimally from his workouts, which is very important for staying healthy.

No one is trying to rush his gains, just pointing out that he will be able to lift a lot more and get a lot stronger if he puts on a good bit of muscle.

[62jeroen]

Everyone has it's own motivations when weight training and I wondered why so much people insist on lifting as much as possible and be as big as possible. And I'm not sure that the topic starter is aiming for that, I didn't read this in his post. He just asks why squats are hard. They will remain hard, whether you gain weight or not. The only difference is that it will be hard at a higher poundage.

I guess I better go back to just reading this interesting site. I've never been accused of trolling on a forum before.

[misspelledgeoff]

Most people on this forum are on this forum because they want to get Big and Strong. While the OP is still skinny, he is MUCH less skinny than he was a few months agao. And MUCH stronger. That's kind of our thing here...getting Big and Strong.


Everyone has it's own motivations when weight training and I wondered why so much people insist on lifting as much as possible and be as big as possible. And I'm not sure that the topic starter is aiming for that, I didn't read this in his post. He just asks why squats are hard. They will remain hard, whether you gain weight or not. The only difference is that it will be hard at a higher poundage.

I guess I better go back to just reading this interesting site. I've never been accused of trolling on a forum before.

[BruteForce]

Everyone has it's own motivations when weight training and I wondered why so much people insist on lifting as much as possible and be as big as possible. And I'm not sure that the topic starter is aiming for that, I didn't read this in his post. He just asks why squats are hard. They will remain hard, whether you gain weight or not. The only difference is that it will be hard at a higher poundage.

I guess I better go back to just reading this interesting site. I've never been accused of trolling on a forum before.

What is YOUR motivation? If it isn't to either grow stronger, improve your physique, or both, then why the hell do you lift? If you're looking for health, go hop on a treadmill with your fitness towel and water bottle.

[confuzzl3don3]

Haha wow, guess my thread got sidetracked again. But that's what i luv about these forums :D

Anyways i understand where both sides are coming from, but yes i would love to get bigger and stronger. The thing is i know this will get harder and harder for me as i need to shovel more and more food to gain the weight. Olive oil has been my new best friend :D

[BruteForce]

Haha wow, guess my thread got sidetracked again. But that's what i luv about these forums :D

Anyways i understand where both sides are coming from, but yes i would love to get bigger and stronger. The thing is i know this will get harder and harder for me as i need to shovel more and more food to gain the weight. Olive oil has been my new best friend :D

Olive oil is a great trick for adding weight for you skinny effers who cant put it on. 2 tablespoons with each meal if you eat 5+ times per day is over 1000 extra calories and the fat is all mono unsaturated.

[tescott]

Olive oil has been my new best friend :D

Great to hear Confuzz!

I'm moving to Newtown next year, and so I'll be training at USYD. You go to UNSW, right? You live around there? Would be good to train together sometime.

[confuzzl3don3]

Awesome, but i live closer to epping. If you live at newtown your lucky you only have to walk or bus to uni for like 5-10 minutes. It takes me nearly 45 minutes sometimes to get to UNSW.

I still got unsw gym membership until like august, and then i'll be training only at home.

[62jeroen]

If you're looking for health, go hop on a treadmill with your fitness towel and water bottle.
Yeah right. Funny. One side of the spectrum only, that seems to be the standard.

Well do not bother me anymore, I will disappear as quickly as I came by.

[tescott]

Awesome, but i live closer to epping. If you live at newtown your lucky you only have to walk or bus to uni for like 5-10 minutes.

Where I'll be living (on the campus of Moore College), it'll literally be right across the road from Arena Gym... they've even oly platforms! It's really well equipped since the rugby teams train there. Can't wait...