Back rounding on deadlift - acceptable or not?

[confuzzl3don3]

Ok, so for my worksets you can probably see i end up having some rounding in my back, especially the last 2 reps. I know it's never good to compromise form, but would this still be considered acceptable if its just the last 1 or 2 reps?

at 121kg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t9RNRt_65I

[blowdpanis]

I don't think you need our permission to round.

That said, I think part of the problem is you attempting to set up again between reps. Some people do this very well, others not as well. Have you tried a more continuous style, in which you stay tight on the eccentric and just pull again after the bar deloads against the ground? Might help.

[LudwigVan]

I think the first rep looks acceptable, but by the fifth rep it doesn't. That's one of the challenges of a heavy set of 5 deadlifts -- continuing to set correctly before each rep despite the fatigue.

[PVC]

I think the first rep looks acceptable, but by the fifth rep it doesn't. That's one of the challenges of a heavy set of 5 deadlifts -- continuing to set correctly before each rep despite the fatigue.

100%. By the last rep your body is saying "just pull it and get it done as fast as possible so I can rest!", but if you do that you'll lose good positioning. You can take a little bit longer between reps than you are currently to make sure that your back is set properly.

Somewhere Rip mentions that it's helpful to pull lightly against the bar when setting up for your next rep. You set your back and get ready to lift, and then you "squeeze" the bar upwards, like you're starting the rep, but you don't pull hard enough to lift the bar off the ground - just hard enough to put pressure on your body, which makes sure your midsection is tight and your arms are straight. Then you start the rep. This doesn't take more than an extra second to do, but I find it really helps me to get tight enough before each rep.

[confuzzl3don3]

Yeah i thought as such. I'll try what you said PVC. Hopefully i can get that tight back all the way through. So other than the back rounding everything else, like barpath, etc is ok?

[imnotbncre8ive]

Thx for asking this, OP, I was wondering the exact same thing.

[Nauticus]

Somewhere Rip mentions that it's helpful to pull lightly against the bar when setting up for your next rep. You set your back and get ready to lift, and then you "squeeze" the bar upwards, like you're starting the rep, but you don't pull hard enough to lift the bar off the ground - just hard enough to put pressure on your body, which makes sure your midsection is tight and your arms are straight. Then you start the rep. This doesn't take more than an extra second to do, but I find it really helps me to get tight enough before each rep.

Thanks for this. A cue I'll try next time.

My personal (and everyone else's, probably) rule of thumb for rounding: If there's a mild amount, and nothing hurts the next day, it's just fine.

[confuzzl3don3]

I tried putting everyone's advice to practice and i reckon today's workout at 122kg was a lot better. Last rep was probably the worse but it's always like that.

Plus i had a lot of gas in the tank (listen carefully to the start of the set ;)

122kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXwZZ-s2FB4

[PVC]

Nice set. Yeah the last rep wasn't as good as the rest, but if you're using a heavy enough weight that's what happens.

One minor complaint though - those bags attached to your barbell stay on the ground after you've started the lift, so for the first foot or so of the lift you're moving less weight. Maybe you can tie the bags so they're closer to the bar?

[Force Production]

Are you microloading or did you run out of weights? ;D
Are you still deadlifting twice a week every other week?

[confuzzl3don3]

Yeah i'm still deadlifting twice a week, then once the next week.

I know, it's just i can't microload 2kg. I have a pair of 0.5kg and 0.25kg collars, so i can only not do 2kg increases. I try my best to avoid doing weights where i need to end up using my coin bags. I should really find a better way to microload.

[Force Production]

I think you should switch to once a week then, but with higher increases (2.5kg or 5kg.)

[Sami]

There really is no reason to microload the deadlift. At all. I don't even think you should be doing 2.5kg jumps as a novice. I put this to Rip as well, and he agreed it's better to take 5kg jumps less frequently than 2.5kg jumps more frequently.

Just do 5kg once a week for as long as you can, then drop to 2.5kg once a week or 5kg every other week.

[confuzzl3don3]

Just out of interest though, why would you not microload the deadlift unlike all the other lifts?

[Sami]

Just out of interest though, why would you not microload the deadlift unlike all the other lifts?

This is how I put it to Rip:

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?p=97758#post97758

[confuzzl3don3]

Hmm so Ripp's explanation is that deadlift stress is more profound. So i guess it's because it's harder to recover from and therefore better to space it out with a larger increase in weight. The thing is i'm not sure i'll be able to increase 5kg every week let alone 2.5kg. But if i did switch it to once a week, how would that change my workout schedule. Would i alternate between deadlifts and....?

[Sami]

Have you PP yet?

This is what I'm doing at the moment:


Monday
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench press / Press (Alternating)
Dips
Chins

Wednesday
Light Squat 2x5
3x5 Press / Bench Press (Alternating)
1x5 Deadlift

Friday
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press / Press (Alternating)
Power Cleans
Pull-ups

But you can tweak the extra assistance stuff how you like.

[confuzzl3don3]

Yeah i got PP. So are you currently doing 3 sets to failure for pullups and chins? Or 3x5 or what?

And if i can't exactly do dips seeing as i don't have dip bars, do i just skip it or need to replace?

[Force Production]

For dips, you could use two chairs or something else, but the dips aren't in PP, they're Sami's own addition.



Instead of deadlifts you could work more on your power cleans or do chin-ups/pull-ups with the bar set high in your power rack, legs raised. Or would that not be possible with your model?

[confuzzl3don3]

I have a chinup/pullup bar so i can do them (i'm currently alternating between chins and pulls on the days i do deadlifts). Just don't have dip bars, or a GHR

[Dastardly]

Your limb lengths, deadlift angles and the unavoidable back rounding looks identical to me.

I showed some lifts to Rip and he said it was rather bad.

Can you show us a video of you deadlifting a warm up weight?

I have found that it is impossible for me to get any amount of back arch when deadlifting the conventional way. My hips & there fore squat stance are are pretty wide. And I have recently found that I can get the right back position, but only with a sumo style. My feet need to be just outside of arms.

Deadlift just doesnt seem to work for me any other way.

[coreJack]

Your limb lengths, deadlift angles and the unavoidable back rounding looks identical to me.
Do you have good hamstring flexibility? I didn't deadlift most of my first year of strength training because my hamstrings were too tight to set up properly with normal lumbar extension. After lots of stretching, I can now DL with a neutral spine (need to take a video to be sure).

[nisora33]

Your limb lengths, deadlift angles and the unavoidable back rounding looks identical to me.

I showed some lifts to Rip and he said it was rather bad.

Can you show us a video of you deadlifting a warm up weight?

I have found that it is impossible for me to get any amount of back arch when deadlifting the conventional way. My hips & there fore squat stance are are pretty wide. And I have recently found that I can get the right back position, but only with a sumo style. My feet need to be just outside of arms.

Deadlift just doesnt seem to work for me any other way.

No, Confuzzled's anthropometry should not necessitate the use of the sumo deadlift. He'll maybe never be a world class deadlifter with his limb lengths (needs longer arms), but he ain't long-legged enough relative to his torso to require a sumo stance either.

-S.

[confuzzl3don3]

Your limb lengths, deadlift angles and the unavoidable back rounding looks identical to me.

I showed some lifts to Rip and he said it was rather bad.

Can you show us a video of you deadlifting a warm up weight?

I have found that it is impossible for me to get any amount of back arch when deadlifting the conventional way. My hips & there fore squat stance are are pretty wide. And I have recently found that I can get the right back position, but only with a sumo style. My feet need to be just outside of arms.

Deadlift just doesnt seem to work for me any other way.

I don't think i round on my warm up sets, but i just want to know if my slight rounding is actually that bad


No, Confuzzled's anthropometry should not necessitate the use of the sumo deadlift. He'll maybe never be a world class deadlifter with his limb lengths (needs longer arms), but he ain't long-legged enough relative to his torso to require a sumo stance either.

-S.

I don't think i'll be a world class deadlifter but i do want to get bigger and stronger. Did you look at my latest deadlift? Still need to fix it?