Getting stronger/bigger at 40+ y.o.

[davidM]

Hi coach,

I’ve always been interested in developing my strength.
Talking about hypertrophy or muscle mass gains, I think seriously that if you can add several kg. to your bench, your squats, your DL, your Press just to state the main lifts that usually are possible to see in the gym’s, well, you will grow all over. That’s why I stopped worrying about my arms or things like that many years ago and paying more attention on the lifts.
I tried to improve them all, always.
Now, I have to say that as I’m growing older I’m a bit concerned about my joints and my health generally speaking: I wonder if adding 5 kg. to my bench and struggling to achieve let’s say 130 - 135 as my 1RM (at 43 going to 44 in august) will be a good deal. I suffered from a really disturbing tennis – elbow and that’s why I’m asking you. In other words, do you think that at older age, since decent levels of strength have been achieved is it better/wiser keep on trying to lift heavier loads and planning my future cycles to get that result or maybe I should change my point of view and focusing on maintaining my strength and trying to focus on hypertrophy/lowering my body fat?
I know that Rip’s experience is mainly towards the classic skinny teenage guy who wants to be big, but I think the dietary advices he gives to them (gomad) aren’t suitable to older guys that want to be stronger/bigger.
I mean, if a 43 years old man would drink a gallon of milk a day plus his main meals even if he trains well he’ll put on a lot of fat, and losing fat is easier when you’re young (then I guess for older men drinking all that milk would cause gastro intestinal problems and bloating (I guess at 40+ years old a lot of people train to be leaner and to achieve a good looking body and not to be as strong as a bull with a huge belly and farting all the time – pardon me my french :)).

So my question is: what would you recommend (diet and training) to a 40+ guy who is still trying to improve his lifts or simply his muscle mass? I don’t need you to explain a detailed plan of meals and exercises, just general lines.

I thank you very much.

[hbriem]

I'm not Charles, but I started lifting at 41 and I'm now 47. I've added approximately 20kg (~44 lbs) of LBM, lost about 8kg (~20 lbs) of fat, more than doubled my strength in most lifts and taken several powerlifting medals. I more or less used the SS template for training even though I'd never heard of it then. It's probably harder in your 40s than your 20s, but you'll have the benefits of age and wisdom. By all means go for it.

[davidM]

I'm not Charles, but I started lifting at 41 and I'm now 47. I've added approximately 20kg (~44 lbs) of LBM, lost about 8kg (~20 lbs) of fat, more than doubled my strength in most lifts and taken several powerlifting medals. I more or less used the SS template for training even though I'd never heard of it then. It's probably harder in your 40s than your 20s, but you'll have the benefits of age and wisdom. By all means go for it.
Thank you very much for your experience.
I've always trained using 6 reps max and I have to say when I experimented higher reps schemes (GVT for example) I failed.
The most important thing to me is having the opportunity of training so to improve my strength / overall muscle mass in a way that is suitable for my life and my time. I love the good feelings that 1-5 reps give me...I only fear that I should change something to achieve a better shape as years go by.
Thanks again

[Bergie]

I started lifting at 50 and did the SS program for about a year and now have moved to an the Madcow 5x5 intermediate program. (four weeks into it)

I have gained about 15 pounds and holding at around 200 lb at 6'. The gains have been mostly muscle, although I have not measured anything. My wife and kids have noticed that I am more muscular.

I have had good increases in all my lifts and feel great. I have a lot fewer aches and pains than I had before I started lifting.

[davidM]

I started lifting at 50 and did the SS program for about a year and now have moved to an the Madcow 5x5 intermediate program. (four weeks into it)

I have gained about 15 pounds and holding at around 200 lb at 6'. The gains have been mostly muscle, although I have not measured anything. My wife and kids have noticed that I am more muscular.

I have had good increases in all my lifts and feel great. I have a lot fewer aches and pains than I had before I started lifting.

Hi!

I really appreciate your feedback and experience.
I think that starting lifting weights and especially doing such a good program like SS (or similar ones) in your 40’s or 50’s can benefit of the same “novice-effect” that we all remember well: losing fat and packing on some muscle mass. And of course doing exercise is better than not doing it so many little pains due to age may disappear or reduce as we train and get in shape. That’s true.
When I pull a heavy DL I feel great and when I can’t for some time I feel like shit.
The situation I outlined is a little different anyway.

I was talking about progressing at older age when your best gains have gone.
I little story of me: I’m training for 20 years (from the very beginning) and in the middle I stopped for 3 years (due to a wonderful divorce). In the beginning all was easy and whatever I did I had decent gains. Then, after some time my lifts stopped and I that’s when I tried many of those bodybuilding crap you can read on Flex, the result: years of frustration.
Suddenly, somebody gave me Stuart Mc Robert’ book “Brawn” and that’s when I really started doing some real progress. That happened in 1996 so I wasted many years as you can see but I think it’s a very common beginning after all.
Since then all my lifts have improved but then I stopped for 3 years (3 years of nothing and definitely I felt worse than today) so after that I had to re- start training as a real beginner.
I don’t want to bother anyone! That is to say that today I feel good but I started having little problems (knee, groin strain and, lately my elbow) that prevented me from doing what I could.
So I started thinking about what is the real benefit of trying to achieve a new 1Rm in all my core lifts and lifting heavy almost all the time. Lately, before discovering SS and Rip’s books I trained with singles with good gains (in all my main lifts, except Squats because of my knee), switching from triples to doubles to singles and going on like that gave me good results.

But now, I don’t know if I should continue in this way or if I ‘d better maintain my strength and focusing on other aspect of training (conditioning? Fat loss? Hypertrophy?) I mean training should be fun (and it is) but I’m a little worried that if I keep on with this kind of training, always strength-oriented, working with a 1-5 reps intervals, training as to beat my previous PR’s more or less I’ll hurt myself more than a “simple” tennis-elbow. I could plan a cycle to improve my DL (as I’ve just done, passing from a 195 kg. 1Rm to 200 - I felt as I won something since I was trying to get there from last year), but adding 5Kg. would be worth it if I ruin a joint?
Maybe I worry too much!!

[Roamer]

I am 50 and just started Rip's SS novice program 8 weeks ago. I have been doing weight and functional strength training type programs for the last 10 years. I have never been on a program as good as this. Like Bergie
related above my wife is telling me how much ore muscular I look. I have gained 8 lbs. I do not know what percentage of that is fat but my pants
are not getting tighter.

I think you are right when you say you may just be worrying too much.
I too have had this issue. But I got over it when I looked at the options.
I need to do some type of exercise to stay healthy. And strength training
is what I enjoy and what I chose as my exercise. My alternative would
be sitting on the couch watching TV, eating everything in sight and getting
as big as a house. I too have several pain issues but they are getting
less troublesome as I progress through this program.

I say go for it and as far as goals, that will come in the intermediate
part of this program. See Practical Programming page 113.

Doug

[hbriem]

Personally, I think you're more likely to get joint aches and pains from high reps than low reps. That's my experience anyway. That said, I tend to most of my serious work in the 3-5 rep range mostly with a few singles in the 90-95% range sometimes. 10 reps plus leave me aching all over after a while.

[davidM]

Personally, I think you're more likely to get joint aches and pains from high reps than low reps. That's my experience anyway. That said, I tend to most of my serious work in the 3-5 rep range mostly with a few singles in the 90-95% range sometimes. 10 reps plus leave me aching all over after a while.

Hi,
I think you guys have right...these thougths come to my mind just because in the last year I suffered from a knee pain (I have done all the exams and the response was that my joint was alright, but I felt pain:confused:).
Then it disappeared without doing anything, but I left my squats behind.
THEN, after that, I had a bad groin strain (I asked on Rip's board lookinf for an answer). From September till Dicember I couldn's Squat again - not even put on my trousers to tell the truth - without problem.
After 2 ostheopatic sessions I solved it (unbelievable, really).
BUT in the meantime I started having a really annoying tennis- elbow so that I couldn't do any pressing movements or chins. I felt like someone who was starting to shiver. For my albow I'm doing a therapy right now and I hope I'll fix that too.
All this has happened soon after I finished my 16 weeks cycle, based on SS, with 2 weekly workouts and a 5x5 format. I improved my previous best 5RM and consequently my 1RM. I was happy because after years at the age of 43 I felt so good. One of my best cycles ever. I gained 6 kg. of bw and I can say almost lean mass (from 72kg. to 78.5- I'm 1.68 tall).
My worries are the fruit, as to say, of the "after cycle" when all my pains have begun. Maybe I pushed too hard (?).
I agree that higher reps cause more pain and leave exhausted. In fact, I've always used 1-5 reps (apart from some experiment in my youth) and never got hurt.
Anyway I really thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.
"Older" lifters have experience, I know. I only had a little doubt...:o
I'd like you to post your routines and any changes you did over the time.
I think that could be useful for all the 40/50 guys around!
Thanks!

[Bergie]

Here are the links to my training logs.

SS
http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=12452

Madcow 5x5
http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=14301

[Charles Staley]

Hey David, please accept my apologies- I didn't see your post until this morning.

For contextual purposes, I am 50, am hitting lifetime PR's in the gym, and I am competitive in Master's Weightlifting

OK, first, I for the most part share your premise that "if you can add several kg. to your bench, your squats, your DL, your Press just to state the main lifts that usually are possible to see in the gym’s, well, you will grow all over."

Next, to address your question:

"do you think that at older age, since decent levels of strength have been achieved is it better/wiser keep on trying to lift heavier loads and planning my future cycles to get that result or maybe I should change my point of view and focusing on maintaining my strength and trying to focus on hypertrophy/lowering my body fat?."

I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer to this, nor need you restrict yourself to either goal, but I will say it's a hell of a lot more motivational to improve strength as opposed to simply maintaining it. With respect to your injuries, I agree with someone else said that lower rep/heavier weight training tends to be more forgiving on chronic "itises" than is higher volume hypertrophy-type training.

In your 40's, you probably don't wanna do GOMAD, unless you're criminally skinny. Rip would agree with this I'm sure.

I would urge you to think about competing in Master's powerlifting and/or weightlifting, depending on your interests, skills, coaching availability, etc. Doing so will help you clarify your goals, focus your training, and also you'll also become part of your local lifting community, which in itself would be invaluable.

I'm happy to bat this around more at your request, both those are my initial thoughts

CS



Hi coach,

I’ve always been interested in developing my strength.
Talking about hypertrophy or muscle mass gains, I think seriously that if you can add several kg. to your bench, your squats, your DL, your Press just to state the main lifts that usually are possible to see in the gym’s, well, you will grow all over. That’s why I stopped worrying about my arms or things like that many years ago and paying more attention on the lifts.
I tried to improve them all, always.
Now, I have to say that as I’m growing older I’m a bit concerned about my joints and my health generally speaking: I wonder if adding 5 kg. to my bench and struggling to achieve let’s say 130 - 135 as my 1RM (at 43 going to 44 in august) will be a good deal. I suffered from a really disturbing tennis – elbow and that’s why I’m asking you. In other words, do you think that at older age, since decent levels of strength have been achieved is it better/wiser keep on trying to lift heavier loads and planning my future cycles to get that result or maybe I should change my point of view and focusing on maintaining my strength and trying to focus on hypertrophy/lowering my body fat?
I know that Rip’s experience is mainly towards the classic skinny teenage guy who wants to be big, but I think the dietary advices he gives to them (gomad) aren’t suitable to older guys that want to be stronger/bigger.
I mean, if a 43 years old man would drink a gallon of milk a day plus his main meals even if he trains well he’ll put on a lot of fat, and losing fat is easier when you’re young (then I guess for older men drinking all that milk would cause gastro intestinal problems and bloating (I guess at 40+ years old a lot of people train to be leaner and to achieve a good looking body and not to be as strong as a bull with a huge belly and farting all the time – pardon me my french :)).

So my question is: what would you recommend (diet and training) to a 40+ guy who is still trying to improve his lifts or simply his muscle mass? I don’t need you to explain a detailed plan of meals and exercises, just general lines.

I thank you very much.

[Platus]

I recall listening to an episode of Iron Radio where one topics of discussion was the long-term effects of heavy training; I think the general consensus was that total time under load and total volume had a stronger correlation to chronic pain and joint problems than did high intensity / low volume training.

[hbriem]

I'd like to second Charles' suggestion to look into master's competitions in PL or WL. I took part in my first PL meet about a year and a half after starting, then about one a year since (http://www.athletebio.com/isl1962m1).

I've found it very beneficial to my training. Having a deadline and a goal focusses your training and sharpens your attitude. Plus, there's a lot of fun and cameraderie.

[davidM]

I'd like to second Charles' suggestion to look into master's competitions in PL or WL. I took part in my first PL meet about a year and a half after starting, then about one a year since (http://www.athletebio.com/isl1962m1).

I've found it very beneficial to my training. Having a deadline and a goal focusses your training and sharpens your attitude. Plus, there's a lot of fun and cameraderie.

Thank you Charles/ Helgi!

Yes, I’m sure that competing in PL would be helpful and lot of fun.
I know because I have a good friend of mine who always tell me that (he’s very strong and with a bw of 82 kg. he has a 270kg. Deadlift - official lift). Unfortunately he lives far away from my town so that we can’t train together.
It’s not that I’m lazy but that is a kind of effort that I don’t want to make (I’m aware that if I start competing I’ll become an addict).
Let’s say that now I’d like to find the way to have fun with my routines while still progressing. But I need to have a plan, I can’t go to the gym and just pump up my muscles without knowing where I’m going. I’ve always trained in a 5x5 or 3x5 format, recently things like 10x3 or 10x1, everything worked fine.
I tried all this and now I feel like I have to find an hybrid way to push my strength along with trying to achieve a better body composition. But, yes, strength it’s the main purpose when I lift.
Now, talking about concrete facts, my last PR’s were as follows:

Bench 122.5Kg. (105 Kg.x 5x5)
Press 71.5 Kg. (65 Kg. x 5x5)
DL 200 Kg. (don’t remember)
Squats 160 Kg. ( last 2008 Pr: I couldn’t do Squats for long time)

I’m 1.68 cm and 78 kg.

I think that maybe I could push these up a bit. I still don’t know if some weeks of linear increments would do the trick or I’d better change something, since we have all clarified that a higher reps range will probably be more taxing /dangerous for my joints, maybe Texas?
I’d like to have your precious help, thank you so much.

[Trolllund]

Since we are on this subject, I will throw out a question. My lifts are:
Bench 245 x 3
Squat 275 x3-5
I have done well on the SS program. But I am starting to feel it in my knees and shoulders. As much as we all want to think we are now "advanced", I am still making gains on SS, so I am not quite ready to throw it aside. I know one of the options is the "heavy- medium- light" schedule. But what about keeping the program the same and just taking and extra rest day? In other words 1 day on, 2 days off all the time. Mondays I always come in strong after the weekend. Why not make every day a "Monday"? Any "cons" to this plan? Would love to hear from others.