Who Needs Help With O Lifts? [Archive] - Starting Strength Forums

Charles Staley

02-10-2010, 07:38 PM

Was that 35 lb plates on the 121x5? Just wondering- it looked like 45's so not sure how it was less than 135lbs

Anyway, I like what I'm seeing here. Here are my thoughts:

1) High hips on the start? This is likely a SS technique I'm assuming, so if that's the case I'll confine my thoughts to a few other elements I'm seeing.

2) I'd love to see you catching the bar with a more pronounced squat- you're catching it on almost straight legs, which over time, maybe be difficult to sit into a squat.

3) This is a bit of a qualitative observation, but you look unnecessarily tentative and/or "tight." I'm guessing this is caused by a bit of excess cognition. I'd play around with trying to be a bit more relaxed. Don't sell yourself short- you look very competent in the videos I saw, so relax a bit and enjoy the process! BTW I tend to be the same way so I recognize this easily in others.

Overall VERY nice work

My PCs still feel rather awkward. Here are two vids from this afternoons work out. Any comments or suggestions on improving form would be greatly appreciated.

121x5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvQtq1HWegM

137.5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaZS2_0espQ

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/images/misc/progress.gif

Charles Staley

02-10-2010, 07:44 PM

Here's how I teach this:

With a moderate weight perform sets of 3 where you power clean the weight, and make sure you're landing in a real semi-squat, rather than popping your feet out to the sides or catching with straight legs.

On rep 1, catch in a semi squat, pause for a second (don't stand up) to make sure you're balanced and in a good squat stance, then then front squat.

On rep 2, same thing, but reduce the pause if possible

On rep 3 same thing, but the instant you feel the bar touch your shoulders, allow it to push you down into the squat (i.e., minimum/no pause)

The key to this drill is you use rep 1 and 2 to rehearse and build confidence, then on rep 3 you try to do the real deal. Several sets of 3 like this 2-3 times a week does the trick.

Also, I'd suggest squatting ALL of your cleans as a matter of habit- even if you have to pause before the squat- which you probably will for a while. Over time, it'll be easier and easier and before you know it it'll be dropping into that squat no probem

Can you please aid me on some resources (preferably internet articles or videos) teaching one how to squat clean coz i'm a little scared on doing because i'm afraid that the barbell will make me off balance and squash me for i don't use bumper plates.

also any articles/videos on the snatch would also be useful.

thanks, more power!

Charles Staley

02-10-2010, 07:45 PM

Good- post the video and we'll get you in the game!

I for one would love some help. I would love to be at the stage now where I can begin learning the olympic lifts, and I expected to!

But After many months of practice I still cannot power clean to a decent standard.

I will post videos tomorrow. Thankyou.

Charles Staley

02-10-2010, 07:46 PM

Most likely it is a pec/lat/internal rotator issue- can you do the movement w/o pain, or no?

Any suggestions on how to regain the shoulder flexibility to perform behind the neck jerks? I hadn't done them for years, and when I finally got back to putting some OL derivatives into my training, I found that they only way I could do them was with a snatch grip. I am fairly sure this is a pec/lat/internal rotator issue, and am working on flexibility for those areas, but would be interested to hear anything else you might have on that topic.

Thanks.

simonsky

02-10-2010, 07:50 PM

wow! thanks very much! the furthest i can do is a quarter squat catch before so hopefully i can transition to the full thing. one last question coach, obviously i'm doing SS, and will the fatigue from squatting earlier affect my squat cleans or more importantly my recovery to squat heavy again next workout?

Charles Staley

02-10-2010, 07:53 PM

Sorry, I was working from the assumption that you could already do a full ROM front squat- is this not the case?

As for fatigue, it likely will impact your squats initially, but if you do it all the time, you'll adapt. For example, I always squat snatch and full C&J prior to squatting

wow! thanks very much! the furthest i can do is a quarter squat catch before so hopefully i can transition to the full thing. one last question coach, obviously i'm doing SS, and will the fatigue from squatting earlier affect my squat cleans or more importantly my recovery to squat heavy again next workout?

simonsky

02-10-2010, 10:59 PM

what i meant was i can rack my clean in a quarter front squat position. i've already done full ROM front squat once though i'm not so sure about my back angle coz i didnt have someone to comprehend me and hopefully i can post a video.

thanks coach!glad people like you exist!

strongdaniel

02-10-2010, 11:02 PM

150x3 . I posted this video elsewhere but would appreciate hearing your thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7cyHj_qZDs&feature=channel

Charles Staley

02-11-2010, 11:17 AM

Matt, see if this helps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzwDlAPWo70

I have a general problem, not with the snatch, but with the launch point on the (power) clean. Either I hit low on the thighs and bounce or don't seem to contact anything and get no proper power explosion. Haven't brushed the shirt (which I know is a good sign) in foreover. My arms are fairly short.

Bergie

02-11-2010, 12:12 PM

Was that 35 lb plates on the 121x5? Just wondering- it looked like 45's so not sure how it was less than 135lbs

Anyway, I like what I'm seeing here. Here are my thoughts:

1) High hips on the start? This is likely a SS technique I'm assuming, so if that's the case I'll confine my thoughts to a few other elements I'm seeing.

2) I'd love to see you catching the bar with a more pronounced squat- you're catching it on almost straight legs, which over time, maybe be difficult to sit into a squat.

3) This is a bit of a qualitative observation, but you look unnecessarily tentative and/or "tight." I'm guessing this is caused by a bit of excess cognition. I'd play around with trying to be a bit more relaxed. Don't sell yourself short- you look very competent in the videos I saw, so relax a bit and enjoy the process! BTW I tend to be the same way so I recognize this easily in others.

Overall VERY nice work

Thanks for your input.

1) I thought the hips are a bit high as well. I will work on getting a better position.

2) I will work while in a squat. I can see how that will be necessary as the weights get heavier.

3) I am probably thinking to much instead of getting into a more nature flow. Thanks for the comments, I will try to relax more. This might to due in part that I started off doing PCs with bumper plates at home but now at in my workplace gym using iron. It make a good deal of noise if missed.

By the way, the 121x5 was done with 35s resting on 25s to get the correct height.

chris123

02-12-2010, 04:47 PM

Thanks for putting this thread up Charles. Here is a few videos I did today of myself doing lighter power cleans and push jerks. I have been doing oly lifts on and off for the last two years, i get frustrated and quit doing them for months.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c_BsCU3wJU
(power clean and push jerk 155#)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9yQ7eWJ2Zo
(hang clean and push jerk 155#)

btw my arms are lock out on the jerks my elbows cant completely straighten out.

I know my arms are bending way early and also notice today that my knees are caving in right as prepare to jump (especially form the floor)

My strength number are 405# low bar squat 255*5 front squat and 555# deadlift. Power cleans have done 200*5

Thanks.

Chris

Charles Staley

02-12-2010, 06:27 PM

Chris that doesn't look too bad at all- no reason to be unnecessarily frustrated at all! I'd like to see more arch in your lumbar spine on the start- this is likely sue to short hams and/or hip flexors, but it might be a motor control issue.

Arms are bending prematurely but I've seen worse on a national Collegiate champion just to name one example.

Aside from that, I'd love to see a bit more of a pronounced squat on the catch- this along will add 10-15kgs to your clean

Thanks for putting this thread up Charles. Here is a few videos I did today of myself doing lighter power cleans and push jerks. I have been doing oly lifts on and off for the last two years, i get frustrated and quit doing them for months.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c_BsCU3wJU
(power clean and push jerk 155#)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9yQ7eWJ2Zo
(hang clean and push jerk 155#)

btw my arms are lock out on the jerks my elbows cant completely straighten out.

I know my arms are bending way early and also notice today that my knees are caving in right as prepare to jump (especially form the floor)

My strength number are 405# low bar squat 255*5 front squat and 555# deadlift. Power cleans have done 200*5

Thanks.

Chris

matclone

02-13-2010, 11:57 AM

Charles, thanks so much for the vid. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to both watch and listen to you tubes at this time. But just by watching, you've given me ideas: one, that the bar needs to stay close to the legs before the pull, and that I'm probably jumping early. I'm going to work on these this afternoon. The video seems to be addressed specifically to the problem I'm having, and hopefully it will be useful to others as well.

TomV

02-15-2010, 04:50 AM

G'day Charles, I'm Tom, 20yo in Australia trying to learn the Olympic Lifts. I unfortunately don't have regular access to a coach so do most of my lifting unsupervised.
I've been having a few issues, primarily with cleans and the assosciated movements, my snatches so far have given me little issue (I'm sure this will change :P).

Here is the video of todays session for your reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EHpqcQRPX4

I was until recently, doing full C&J however I found myself having a bit of trouble "racking" the bar at the bottom position (refer to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUACJBEahNU) video to see what happened when I tried to catch 90kg).

I was advised to practice front squatting in order to get more comfortable with the rack position throughout the range of motion and cease doing Cleans. I decided to have a crack at doing Power Cleans today however as I have generally felt fairly comfortable with the rack position at the top.

As I was doing the Power Cleans today, I began getting quite a strange pain/sensation in my left arm. I've included a few photos with little red dots to illustrate exactly where the pain was. It wasn't a sharp pain that I felt as I was doing the movement immediately, more like someone had given me a dead arm after the sets were done. This pain dissipated after doing a few sets of Low Bar Back Squats. I'm thinking perhaps a rotator cuff issue? What I'm thinking is irrelevant I guess, as I'm seeking your advice ;-).

When racking the power cleans it seems that my upper and lower arms don't run in parallel, with my upper arms seeming to point quite forward. However when I front squat, they do seem to be parallel. Would you think this is a technique or flexibility issue?

In Summary (Apologies, I waffle a bit):
1) Could you recommend any good stretches/exercises for getting more comfortable with bottom of the front squat/clean position? I figure I am just going to try and do lots of front squats and static holds in the front squat position for now. Should I leave out the Cleans for now?

2) My rack looks different when comparing the power clean to the front squat, why do you think this is?

3) Have you any idea what the pain described above may be?

4) I realise my jerks are ugly as sin at heavier weights, I was messing around today to see where my maxes were and I think I found them. For now, no heavier than 75kg for P/Clean or Jerk ;-).

Charles Staley

02-15-2010, 08:39 AM

OK for everyone out there who I'm asking to "get out in front of the bar," watch Tom's videos. Tom these look great especially considering that you're self coached.

I think your external rotators are tight/short- a narrower hand spacing may help. Otherwise, I think just stay with the lifts, and give it time. Tom I think for you right now, the key is to do lots of moderate lifts, and give your body time to get comfortable.

Your "shelf" should be identical for your clean and front squat BTW. I'd recommend you pick one and stay with it

The 90 cleans you missed were less to do with your hands/shoulders and more to do with failing to maintain an upright torso on the bottom of the squat- it's a core strength issue. More cleans, more front squats, but moderate. Heavy attempts too often at your stage will create trepidation/unconscious tension.

G'day Charles, I'm Tom, 20yo in Australia trying to learn the Olympic Lifts. I unfortunately don't have regular access to a coach so do most of my lifting unsupervised.
I've been having a few issues, primarily with cleans and the assosciated movements, my snatches so far have given me little issue (I'm sure this will change :P).

Here is the video of todays session for your reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EHpqcQRPX4

I was until recently, doing full C&J however I found myself having a bit of trouble "racking" the bar at the bottom position (refer to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUACJBEahNU) video to see what happened when I tried to catch 90kg).

I was advised to practice front squatting in order to get more comfortable with the rack position throughout the range of motion and cease doing Cleans. I decided to have a crack at doing Power Cleans today however as I have generally felt fairly comfortable with the rack position at the top.

As I was doing the Power Cleans today, I began getting quite a strange pain/sensation in my left arm. I've included a few photos with little red dots to illustrate exactly where the pain was. It wasn't a sharp pain that I felt as I was doing the movement immediately, more like someone had given me a dead arm after the sets were done. This pain dissipated after doing a few sets of Low Bar Back Squats. I'm thinking perhaps a rotator cuff issue? What I'm thinking is irrelevant I guess, as I'm seeking your advice ;-).

When racking the power cleans it seems that my upper and lower arms don't run in parallel, with my upper arms seeming to point quite forward. However when I front squat, they do seem to be parallel. Would you think this is a technique or flexibility issue?

In Summary (Apologies, I waffle a bit):
1) Could you recommend any good stretches/exercises for getting more comfortable with bottom of the front squat/clean position? I figure I am just going to try and do lots of front squats and static holds in the front squat position for now. Should I leave out the Cleans for now?

2) My rack looks different when comparing the power clean to the front squat, why do you think this is?

3) Have you any idea what the pain described above may be?

4) I realise my jerks are ugly as sin at heavier weights, I was messing around today to see where my maxes were and I think I found them. For now, no heavier than 75kg for P/Clean or Jerk ;-).

simonsky

02-17-2010, 10:30 PM

charles how about the foot placement in catching the bar for squat cleans.

my starting position has a narrower stance than my comfortable front squat

stance so should i pop my feet during the catch or just start with a wider than

normal stance?

chris123

02-18-2010, 06:05 PM

texron

02-21-2010, 01:07 PM

Hey coach,
I don't have any questions, actually I have a ton, but wouldn't know where to start;) Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to answer all these questions so generously. It takes time which I'm sure you're short on. Thanks a ton!!!!

Charles Staley

02-21-2010, 01:56 PM

Ah!

I understand your concern. This isn't an ideal pattern. You're sure it doesn't happen on deads?

I'd be interested to see if it happens when you do a clean pull- wanna try that for me?

Thanks for the info I was more worried about my right knee caving in as I set myself up to jump. Here is video that is straight ahead that shows it clearly with only 95# and I dont do this during deadlifts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1caA-uU1iU

Thanks,

Chris

Charles Staley

02-21-2010, 01:58 PM

Thanks Tex- the pleasure is mine

Hey coach,
I don't have any questions, actually I have a ton, but wouldn't know where to start;) Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to answer all these questions so generously. It takes time which I'm sure you're short on. Thanks a ton!!!!

Charles Staley

02-21-2010, 02:02 PM

Dan did I get back to you on this? If not, you need to get out in front of the bar as it passes your knees (people- are you picking up on a common theme here?). This will helps things a bunch

150x3 . I posted this video elsewhere but would appreciate hearing your thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7cyHj_qZDs&feature=channel

chris123

02-21-2010, 05:10 PM

Ah!

I understand your concern. This isn't an ideal pattern. You're sure it doesn't happen on deads?

I'd be interested to see if it happens when you do a clean pull- wanna try that for me?

Here Charles is my video of me doing my max deadlift.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gfE1hMIDqI

Ill get a video of a clean pull tomorrow after a workout I do

Charles Staley

02-21-2010, 05:23 PM

That's the oddest thing I've ever seen (nice pull though!)

I'm very curious to see what happens on the clean pull. BTW on cleans, are you aware of your knees buckling, or no?

Here Charles is my video of me doing my max deadlift.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gfE1hMIDqI

Ill get a video of a clean pull tomorrow after a workout I do

chris123

02-22-2010, 03:26 PM

That's the oddest thing I've ever seen (nice pull though!)

I'm very curious to see what happens on the clean pull. BTW on cleans, are you aware of your knees buckling, or no?

I am not aware that my knees are buckling when doing cleans, i just notice it first time after watching a few videos of myself doing cleans.

Here are three videos of myself doing clean pulls and cleans with a band above my knees.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i89gco_c0kQ
clean wband 135. They are little better with the band I am really concentrating by pushing my knees out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwOrABp9Rj0
Clean pull 155lb front view. I get better through each rep without buckling. The only really reason I think I was buckling at little at first was cause I did some light cleans first which screws with me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaZvVclXdQs
Clean pull 180lb side view no visible sign of buckling, even during slow mode, they look decent

Phil Stevens

02-23-2010, 09:15 AM

Here Charles is my video of me doing my max deadlift.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gfE1hMIDqI

Ill get a video of a clean pull tomorrow after a workout I do

I have to jump in here, sorry

All do respect bud that, you get an a plus for effort, buit for execution Um... thats was horrid.

You need to drop the load to somethign you can handle and work up as you earn it. Your never set up you dont even seem to attempt to lock the lumber spine. Sure the thoracic can and will bend in some pullers but you just yank on that bar with a relaxed spine and head down. This is why it was so hard at the top you were in front of the bar, and bent over. You hitched from the knees all the way up and the lift was never completed. you never got to full hip extension.

Again great fucking effort and if you carry that work ethic to loads you can lift correct youll be hitting that load easy and in acceptable form very soon.

Charles Staley

02-23-2010, 09:18 AM

Full agreement from me BTW- I was so keyed in on the clean issue I neglected to comment on the dead...

I have to jump in here, sorry

All do respect bud that, you get an a plus for effort, buit for execution Um... thats was horrid.

You need to drop the load to somethign you can handle and work up as you earn it. Your never set up you dont even seem to attempt to lock the lumber spine. Sure the thoracic can and will bend in some pullers but you just yank on that bar with a relaxed spine and head down. This is why it was so hard at the top you were in front of the bar, and bent over. You hitched from the knees all the way up and the lift was never completed. you never got to full hip extension.

Again great fucking effort and if you carry that work ethic to loads you can lift correct youll be hitting that load easy and in acceptable form very soon.

mark

02-23-2010, 11:26 AM

Full agreement from me BTW- I was so keyed in on the clean issue I neglected to comment on the dead...

You did comment....

That's the oddest thing I've ever seen

:D

chris123

02-23-2010, 02:01 PM

I have to jump in here, sorry

All do respect bud that, you get an a plus for effort, buit for execution Um... thats was horrid.

You need to drop the load to somethign you can handle and work up as you earn it. Your never set up you dont even seem to attempt to lock the lumber spine. Sure the thoracic can and will bend in some pullers but you just yank on that bar with a relaxed spine and head down. This is why it was so hard at the top you were in front of the bar, and bent over. You hitched from the knees all the way up and the lift was never completed. you never got to full hip extension.

Again great fucking effort and if you carry that work ethic to loads you can lift correct youll be hitting that load easy and in acceptable form very soon.

Thanks my form wasnt perfect but that was an my max attempt, which can get ugly and dont do that often , but i post it to show my right knee does buckle in and it was my only vid of me dead lifting.

I am trying to find a reason why my knees buckle during cleans. If you can help out me out it would be appreciated

moak

02-25-2010, 12:55 PM

A few snatches from 135#-155#.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJH5y-98zXQ

Trying to learn on my own without bumpers, so I've been taking it slow to avoid crashes.
Have at it. I'll hold off on my self-analysis and listen to you guys first.

moak

03-01-2010, 08:27 AM

bump

Charles Staley

03-01-2010, 08:50 AM

Your overall concept is solid Moak. Keep that bar close, work on a more pronounced slow to fast tempo...how long have you been working on these?

bump

moak

03-01-2010, 09:54 AM

Thanks, Charles. I've been working on them consistently for about a month, before that I played around too infrequently for it to really matter. I did notice that on the last few, as I was tiring a bit, I was trying to focus on being explosive in the middle and ended up rushing the pull off the floor.
Another set of eyes tells me that I am whipping the bar backwards a bit at the top which is affecting my balance in the catch. What say you, Charles?

Charles Staley

03-01-2010, 10:27 AM

YEs, you're looping a bit. Nothing terrible. Time fixes all wounds. If it seems I'm being a bit permissive it's because I really think lifters beat themselves up excessively with O-lifts. If you're self-taught and only really a month in, these look GREAT.

Thanks, Charles. I've been working on them consistently for about a month, before that I played around too infrequently for it to really matter. I did notice that on the last few, as I was tiring a bit, I was trying to focus on being explosive in the middle and ended up rushing the pull off the floor.
Another set of eyes tells me that I am whipping the bar backwards a bit at the top which is affecting my balance in the catch. What say you, Charles?

Greg C

03-02-2010, 05:36 AM

Charles:

I've been working for a bit trying to get rid of bent elbows (unsuccessfully) during PC. Any suggestions? Here's a vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_RFLmW9n4E

Thanks!

Charles Staley

03-02-2010, 08:02 AM

If you have a partner, I've got a great drill for you...

Charles:

I've been working for a bit trying to get rid of bent elbows (unsuccessfully) during PC. Any suggestions? Here's a vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_RFLmW9n4E

Thanks!

Greg C

03-02-2010, 08:13 AM

Charles,

unfortunately, I lift alone. I might be able to recruit my better-half if it's a some sort of cue...

letranger0

03-04-2010, 04:18 AM

Since you're being so generous with your time, here's a video of me cleaning 100kg from about a month ago. It was the first time I ever did full cleans with any meaningful weight, everything up until then had been power cleans. Skip ahead to 2:15 if you're not a Led Zeppelin fan. Any thoughts you have are appreciated. In the last few weeks I've ditched the belt and felt no difference either way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKuizUIDSP4

ChadTheMeatBeast

03-18-2010, 07:59 AM

Mr. Staley, I've been really struggling with my cleans. I'd like to get more proficient in this lift, as it is lagging behind all of my other lifts.

Here is a video I shot yesterday of my third set of five doing 198.5 lbs. for a set of three reps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2y7PZYJj8

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Jawlz

04-15-2010, 01:23 AM

Hey Charles,

You seem to be the go-to guy for power cleans, could you please critique my PCs.

http://vimeo.com/10823523

The way I see it is, I might be doing a little bit of arm pull just as I jump, more like snapping it just to get the momentum going then followed by the actual pull.

Could you give me any suggestions to make my PC better.

Thanks,

Charles Staley

04-21-2010, 04:38 PM

Has Rip had "the talk" with you about murals of skiers on gym walls? Just curious.

Look, I like what I'm seeing here- are you self-taught?

You might work on catching the bar in a slightly deeper squat, and "stick the landing" just for a bit, to prepare you for squat cleans in the future

Hey Charles,

You seem to be the go-to guy for power cleans, could you please critique my PCs.

http://vimeo.com/10823523

The way I see it is, I might be doing a little bit of arm pull just as I jump, more like snapping it just to get the momentum going then followed by the actual pull.

Could you give me any suggestions to make my PC better.

Thanks,

orcuttman

04-24-2010, 09:00 PM

Hey Charles,
Here's a video of my 60kg snatch. I would greatly appreciate any input as I am trying to teach myself this lift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2tyfIpiJg

Ian Kovtunovich

04-26-2010, 01:48 AM

Charles,

I haven't posted up here for help, but I have been checking out the videos and your responses on this thread. On the first or second page, you told a guy this: "This is a bit of a qualitative observation, but you look unnecessarily tentative and/or "tight." I'm guessing this is caused by a bit of excess cognition. I'd play around with trying to be a bit more relaxed." and I had a lightbulb go on--ding! Last week I got my cleans at 160 (5x3, second attempt at that weight), but just barely hung in there, and things were pretty rough. Tonight I dropped down to 145 to try to iron things out, and kept your advice in mind. Obviously shaving 10% off my previous working set weight helped, but I tried to relax and just fire 'em off, and they went very well. I also incorporated your "stay out over the bar longer" cue and your advice from the same reply I quoted at the beginning to let the knees bend more on the rack.

Anyway, great advice, and much appreciated. And you're so much less abrasive than Rip--but I like you anyway!

famendoza

04-28-2010, 12:31 PM

Hey Charles,

I really appreciate you taking the time to help us. Most of us enjoy lifting like this, but have no plans of competing (and thus give no incentive to others to coach us), but just progressing in strength.

I have three videos - one of my heaviest clean and jerk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VRgQtCAQoA

My heaviest clean with a jerk miss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yipznaurs9g

And a snatch that I can pull off any day of the week:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLEhYKZRZWg

Only thing I can find is that I'm very slow on the reversal of extension, and I am forward leaning on my jerks. If you can help me figure out where I should put major focus on next, I'll train it.

Charles Staley

04-28-2010, 08:58 PM

OK not too bad at all. Your overall concept is sound- congrats for that. here are a few things to work on

1) You are "arm-pulling" (premature elbow flexion). Solutions:

- Sets of 2 where rep one is a snatch pull and rep 2 is a snatch. Practice straight arms with the pull, the replicate this on the snatch on rep 2. Make both reps look identical until you reach the final full extension. Only then do you allow the arms to bend. Note that I used the word "allow." The arms bend passively as they get out of the bar's way as it flies to the top on it's own momentum.

- Attempt internal rotation of the humerus and contract your triceps during the pull. These maneuvers help to override your natural tendency to flex the elbows

- Hook grip- the more secure your grip, the less likely you are to arm pull

- Reframe and Trust: Make the goal to reach full extension with straight arms, not to make a successful snatch. Create a premise (straight arms) and if the premise is sound, the outcome will be good. If the premise is unsound, the outcome will not be good. (BTW this premise is sound)

2) Your "receiving" stance is too wide. I doubt your deepest overhead squat could be done with this stance

4) You are pressing-out a bit at the top. Fix the above issues and this will go away.

Let me know how all of this works for you!

Hey Charles,
Here's a video of my 60kg snatch. I would greatly appreciate any input as I am trying to teach myself this lift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2tyfIpiJg

Charles Staley

04-28-2010, 09:01 PM

Great work Ian!

BTW the way it works around here is I'm the good cop, Rip is the bad cop.

Charles,

I haven't posted up here for help, but I have been checking out the videos and your responses on this thread. On the first or second page, you told a guy this: "This is a bit of a qualitative observation, but you look unnecessarily tentative and/or "tight." I'm guessing this is caused by a bit of excess cognition. I'd play around with trying to be a bit more relaxed." and I had a lightbulb go on--ding! Last week I got my cleans at 160 (5x3, second attempt at that weight), but just barely hung in there, and things were pretty rough. Tonight I dropped down to 145 to try to iron things out, and kept your advice in mind. Obviously shaving 10% off my previous working set weight helped, but I tried to relax and just fire 'em off, and they went very well. I also incorporated your "stay out over the bar longer" cue and your advice from the same reply I quoted at the beginning to let the knees bend more on the rack.

Anyway, great advice, and much appreciated. And you're so much less abrasive than Rip--but I like you anyway!

z3nrunn3r

04-29-2010, 12:30 PM

Thanks for the video, I was having the same "getting under the bar" issue. We are very lucky to have some great instructors on this site.

Charles Staley

04-29-2010, 01:29 PM

Well done. If you're self-coached, you've done a great job. A few things that jump out at me:

1) I'd love to see you develop the ability to "catch the bounce" instead of sitting on the bottom of your squat- it'd save you a ton of energy

2) Your squat is insanely narrow. Are you able to catch the weight in a slightly wider stance?

3) Your snatch grip appears to be too narrow

4) Bend back knee on jerk, it'll help put the bar back behind you. But also you must "commit:" put that bar back behind your ears!

Hey Charles,

I really appreciate you taking the time to help us. Most of us enjoy lifting like this, but have no plans of competing (and thus give no incentive to others to coach us), but just progressing in strength.

I have three videos - one of my heaviest clean and jerk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VRgQtCAQoA

My heaviest clean with a jerk miss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yipznaurs9g

And a snatch that I can pull off any day of the week:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLEhYKZRZWg

Only thing I can find is that I'm very slow on the reversal of extension, and I am forward leaning on my jerks. If you can help me figure out where I should put major focus on next, I'll train it.

famendoza

04-29-2010, 06:42 PM

Well done. If you're self-coached, you've done a great job. A few things that jump out at me:

1) I'd love to see you develop the ability to "catch the bounce" instead of sitting on the bottom of your squat- it'd save you a ton of energy

2) Your squat is insanely narrow. Are you able to catch the weight in a slightly wider stance?

3) Your snatch grip appears to be too narrow

4) Bend back knee on jerk, it'll help put the bar back behind you. But also you must "commit:" put that bar back behind your ears!

Hi Charles,
Thanks for the feedback. I'll have to refilm myself for next week to work out the points you gave me. One thing I should add is my camera recorded at a different aspect ratio than I expected, which may contribute to me looking rather narrow. I'll see if I can fix that and widen my grip and my squat more. Looking forward to Monday and Tuesday. Thanks!

zepled37

05-01-2010, 11:42 AM

Hi Charles,

Can you tell me how awful my clean and jerk form is? The sets are with 155, 175, 175, 185 and 195.

Any pointers to work on?

Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp4BwFO8q7w

NewWorldMan

05-01-2010, 04:00 PM

Charles,

For quite a while now I've enjoyed your writings, more recently I've been enjoying the videos.

Thanks for taking the time to share and more thanks for offering help via this forum!

I've recently started learning the O-lifts (March 25).

It's been very humbling yet enjoyable to learn something new after so many years of lifting weights.

I am thinking of entering a Masters meet on July 23/24 (about 12/13 weeks).

I am able to hit a gym with a platform/bumper plates 3x/week.

At this point my strength exceeds my technique (recent squat 1RM @ 165 and DL @195 at the end of workouts - but my best snatch is 63.5, best c & j is 82.5. I've jerked 90 from racks.)

I am curious if you'd be willing to offer any input on my technique based on my videos below and perhaps suggest a plan of attack leading up to a first meet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J00LeybKRM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWus81Gm--w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-xVoKnM_9g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azS0qjpUNmI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oX0XOkuR_Q

Charles Staley

05-05-2010, 09:06 PM

Not horrible. A front 3/4 view would be more useful though. As I say with nearly everyone who posts vids here, you need to position yourself so that your shoulders are in front of the bar as it passes your knees- currently, you're directly on top of the bar

Also kinda looks like you're not getting much of a final "pop" (I.e, extension) at the end of your pull

Work on that and get me another vid from front 3/4 view

Hi Charles,

Can you tell me how awful my clean and jerk form is? The sets are with 155, 175, 175, 185 and 195.

Any pointers to work on?

Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp4BwFO8q7w

Charles Staley

05-05-2010, 09:14 PM

Overall, good stuff. I see you are reticent to sit down on the snatch- actually, your squat is just late, that'd be the more accurate way to put it.

If you watch your snatches, you're doing a high power snatch, pausing, then squatting. Let's work on starting the squat sooner. Eventually, and your goal is, to initiate the squat the very moment your pull is completed. Which means you'll be going down as the bar is still going up. Mull that over for a bit and play around with it on your next session

On cleans, you look a bit antsey setting up. Let's try to reduce some of those moving parts. Pump your hips once or twice, then sit, stay for 2 secs, then go.

Plan of attack- prioritize the competitive lifts, minimize accessory work. Focus on singles, don't rush in terms of progression.

Keep my in the loop here, and definitely enter that meet!

Charles,

For quite a while now I've enjoyed your writings, more recently I've been enjoying the videos.

Thanks for taking the time to share and more thanks for offering help via this forum!

I've recently started learning the O-lifts (March 25).

It's been very humbling yet enjoyable to learn something new after so many years of lifting weights.

I am thinking of entering a Masters meet on July 23/24 (about 12/13 weeks).

I am able to hit a gym with a platform/bumper plates 3x/week.

At this point my strength exceeds my technique (recent squat 1RM @ 165 and DL @195 at the end of workouts - but my best snatch is 63.5, best c & j is 82.5. I've jerked 90 from racks.)

I am curious if you'd be willing to offer any input on my technique based on my videos below and perhaps suggest a plan of attack leading up to a first meet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J00LeybKRM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWus81Gm--w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-xVoKnM_9g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azS0qjpUNmI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oX0XOkuR_Q

famendoza

05-06-2010, 07:36 PM

Hey Charles,

Have come back after about a week or so and these are my attempts at the lifts following your advice of wider squat, wider snatch grip. Unfortunately commitment comes easier said than done. I defer to your judgment however.

Snatch 125x1,0,1,1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=022PTunhZnw

Snatch misses 135x0,0,0,0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2nRGjDSsQ4

Clean and Jerk 135
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_FkTvUtxoM

Clean and Jerk 185
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-w9AHMhJvQ

The snatch technique on my lifts breaks down and seems to reveal a lack of instability which to me, seems to make me feel scared and unconfident in wanting to go under the bar. Which makes my practice sessions pretty crappy. I probably should have tried to go under, even if it meant failure. I should train myself to accept failure in these things, but i just suck at accepting it.

The clean and Jerk I think are cooler than before, but I didn't choose to tackle 205 this week. The deadlifts at 335x7 were a bit much for my lower back that day.

Tear'em apart.

Charles Staley

05-09-2010, 10:30 AM

Not bad honestly. When I look at these, I see a guy with a good concept who just needs more time under the bar. Choose your weights- not so light that they present insufficient challenge, but not so heavy that you're forced to resort to "whatever it takes" to make the lift. The weights I'm seeing in these vids look petty good.

On the snatches- reframe your goals- make the goal getting under rather than succeeding at the lift. Hard to do w/o bumpers obviously. Have you tried to find a better gym with bumper plates?

Hey Charles,

Have come back after about a week or so and these are my attempts at the lifts following your advice of wider squat, wider snatch grip. Unfortunately commitment comes easier said than done. I defer to your judgment however.

Snatch 125x1,0,1,1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=022PTunhZnw

Snatch misses 135x0,0,0,0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2nRGjDSsQ4

Clean and Jerk 135
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_FkTvUtxoM

Clean and Jerk 185
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-w9AHMhJvQ

The snatch technique on my lifts breaks down and seems to reveal a lack of instability which to me, seems to make me feel scared and unconfident in wanting to go under the bar. Which makes my practice sessions pretty crappy. I probably should have tried to go under, even if it meant failure. I should train myself to accept failure in these things, but i just suck at accepting it.

The clean and Jerk I think are cooler than before, but I didn't choose to tackle 205 this week. The deadlifts at 335x7 were a bit much for my lower back that day.

Tear'em apart.

NewWorldMan

05-13-2010, 09:22 AM

...actually, your squat is just late...

... Let's work on starting the squat sooner. Eventually, and your goal is, to initiate the squat the very moment your pull is completed. Which means you'll be going down as the bar is still going up. Mull that over for a bit and play around with it on your next session

...

Plan of attack- prioritize the competitive lifts, minimize accessory work. Focus on singles, don't rush in terms of progression.

Keep my in the loop here, and definitely enter that meet!

Charles,

I had a few chances to work on the above - not much success (yet).

Here's my Tuesday workout that I'm disappointed with:
- I warm up with some mobility work, then start w/the broomstick, progress to the bar (broom/bar routine = RDLs, muscle snatches, snatch drops, overhead squats w. bottom stretch).
- I snatch a couple sets of 2/3@ 40; a set of 2/3 @45, 47.5, then I started doing singles: multiples @ 50, then 52,5,55,57,5.
- clean jerk = start with 3+1@60,3+1@65, then singles w/70-->77.5
-I finished up with front squats 3@90,3@100,3@110.

Here's some evidence of my unsuccessful attempts to 'get under' my snatches and a few of my cleans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMMC3JeEnrA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVAAP1hAshQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waE8wfKPb1Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkBJ_-86GUs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3qTy73AYDY

Would it help to video the lighter warm up sets?

I lift Tuesday/Thursday evening w/good equipment/coaching (coach has been out last two weeks), Saturday AM I get to work out at the high school gym (no O bars or plates but they do have a small platform/composite plates/power bar.) As well, I try to foam roll, stretch, practice snatching w/PVC pipe at home on 'off' days.

So far I've spent Tuesday/Thursday working the full lifts. Saturday (due to no coaching/inferior equipment) I usually just work light snatches as a warm up to my squats and do some cleans (no jerks) prior to my deadlifts.

Saturdays workout (inferior equipment):
- snatch warm ups and work up to 95 (power bar/composite bumper plates)
- squat: I usually cycle 3x5,3x3,5/3/1
- bench: same cycle as squat
- cleans/high pulls/deadlift: a few triples on the cleans and pulls, then I've started to do my deadlift (1 set) as a clean pull style.
- Some EDT style push/pull: pullups/dips.

Does this make sense in terms of training economy/strength maint.?

Thanks for you continued interest and help!

meggersp

05-19-2010, 09:14 PM

Charles,

Thank you for providing your time and help via this forum.

I have some significant problems with my clean and snatch form - specifically the bar path (there are probably numerous problems, bar path is just the most glaring to me right now).

Here is a video of some clean and jerks I recently did at 165#. The weight used was lower than I would have liked due to some recent shoulder pain in the jerks - on the other hand, it was a good opportunity to work on form (or should have been):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AptB6PokOJw

The jerks are fairly awful with the shin past vertical and the pressing out at the top (due to the pain; in hindsight, I should have just not jerked), but I'm specifically interested in the clean problems.

Also, here is a video of some snatches I did last week:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCMY7OlmQ0s

And here is another video of me snatching a few months ago (where I think I do a better job of pulling it off the floor in a controlled manner):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n8kW-np9FE

A PR snatch of 160 lbs when I can deadlift 460 lbs for a set of 5 is way out of whack, I realize, and any help you can offer would be great. Once I 2nd pull, I end up swinging the bar way out in front of me. I'm not sure if I need to focus more vertically and not let my hips come so far forward, or perhaps I'm just jumping too early (or perhaps something else entirely).

I realize there are those in the "S-curve" camp as well as those in the "vertical path" camp, but even in the S-curve world, my trajectory seems truly exreme to me, and it definitely pulls me forward.

Any help you provide would be great (and sorry for the lengthy post).

famendoza

05-23-2010, 12:55 AM

Hey Charles,

I took your advice on commitment 'under the bar' and trained my snatch with that in mind. Here I offer my attempts:

145lbx1x2 successful snatches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el-C2FQbsmI

The first one felt like I had more 'authority' and stability in the squat catch than the second one (and the third one that I did not film). I also felt like I ran the bar up my hip - almost like banging it but not quite. From the camera's viewpoint I didn't move off the ground a whole lot either. Is this where I should be going with this - or am I off-base about the stability during the catch?

155lb misses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOwBlwtqZkI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJHX6mJTXtE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9L78f8OPH0
These are my attempts at thinking of getting under the bar and not attempting to save the weight at all costs. Am I on the right track in terms of failure here?

FYI your advice about the squat and back bend on the jerk helped greatly on establishing strong jerks with PR weights here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADn8070ILmk
The 215lb jerk is pressed out - will fix this by getting stronger.

I'm starting to notice something about my recovery - there's a weird hip bob I do similar to when I front squat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqd0f9ZfZIs
I guess I'm not keeping my chest up here?

Thanks again for your feedback. I appreciate the honesty and candidness you offer on this thread. I'm hoping I can reach 100kg snatches.

BTW the plates I use are bumper plates according to York - anything below 25lbs seems rather flimsy though:
http://www.yorkbarbell.com/CommercialProducts.php?ProductType=Barbell%20Plate s&Category=Bumper%20Grip%20Plates

Cheech32917

05-25-2010, 05:25 PM

Hi Charles,

Thanks for taking the time to look at these. I've been doing the oly's for about a month now. My form still shaky at times and I would be greatful if you could provide me with some help

snatch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiVmk2a8ufk

C & J
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH7cZgX1QhY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vmwbrHvzI4

Thanks again!

Pistol Pete

06-07-2010, 03:20 PM

Hey Charles,

I thought my technique was pretty good due to the weight I was moving but took some video and it painted a different picture. I'm noticing I don't get even close to full extension at the knees or hips. Do I just need to wait longer before I try to shrug it up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsuhEECTXIA&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK1NIAq1EJI&feature=channel

NewWorldMan

06-09-2010, 12:06 PM

Plan of attack- prioritize the competitive lifts, minimize accessory work. Focus on singles, don't rush in terms of progression.

Keep my in the loop here, and definitely enter that meet!

I am going to enter the meet (Keystone Games) on 7/24.

I've been working on 'getting under the bar' but I've noticed that with that emphasis I've started cutting off the pull. (I can link/post vids if requested).

I've been focusing on 'getting under' with bar work (during warm ups) including drop snatches and then focusing on finishing my pulls when I add weight to the bar.

I am curious if you have any literature on how to spend the next 6/7 weeks prepping for the meet. Should I work up intensity and then taper 1/2 weeks before the meet?

I've read through your log but I'm equally curious as to how to handle warm ups the day of the meet.

Thanks in advance!

NewWorldMan

06-10-2010, 10:04 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWQiHB-Mezo

Any clues on this miss? This was rep 21. I did a Joe Mills 20/20 type workout.
Here's rep 20 with the same weight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5qydzejFvE

Charles Staley

06-13-2010, 04:26 PM

If you're self-coached and you've only been doing this for a month, you're looking quite good. I'd need a front 3/4 camera view to give you much feedback, but on the snatch the bar needs to be caught a bit further behind the position I saw on the vid, and on the jerk, get that front foot further out!

Hi Charles,

Thanks for taking the time to look at these. I've been doing the oly's for about a month now. My form still shaky at times and I would be greatful if you could provide me with some help

snatch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiVmk2a8ufk

C & J
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH7cZgX1QhY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vmwbrHvzI4

Thanks again!

Charles Staley

06-13-2010, 04:27 PM

You are looping the bar, which is caused by shooting the hips on the start- if you watch the vid, as you start your pull, your hips elevate significantly before the bar starts to move- bad idea. When you move, the bar must move!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWQiHB-Mezo

Any clues on this miss? This was rep 21. I did a Joe Mills 20/20 type workout.
Here's rep 20 with the same weight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5qydzejFvE

Charles Staley

06-13-2010, 04:34 PM

If trying to squat under causes you to cut your pull, try this cue:

As you near the finish of your pull, imagine that there's a button above your head that you can only hit if you stretch to absolute full extension. When your head hits the button, it releases a trap door under you, which you fall through (into the squat)

Also: make whatever technical issue you're working on the goal, NOT making the lift. For example, if you're hesitant to squat under a snatch, make squatting the criterion for a successful lift, NOT actually making the lift.

As for final 6-7 weeks/warming up for the meet, start practicing your warm-up ritual now in training. For me on the snatch for example, my warm-ups are always the same: after some overhead squats with the bar, I do

20kg (2x3)
30kg (2x3)
40kg (2x3)
50kg (2x2)
60kg x1
65kg x1
70kg x1

Then my opener would be anywhere between 73-75kgs

After establishing this ritual in training, you'll know exactly how to warm-up at the meet, as well as how long it'll take.

Oh, and having Rip handling you at the meet helps a lot too ;-)

I am going to enter the meet (Keystone Games) on 7/24.

I've been working on 'getting under the bar' but I've noticed that with that emphasis I've started cutting off the pull. (I can link/post vids if requested).

I've been focusing on 'getting under' with bar work (during warm ups) including drop snatches and then focusing on finishing my pulls when I add weight to the bar.

I am curious if you have any literature on how to spend the next 6/7 weeks prepping for the meet. Should I work up intensity and then taper 1/2 weeks before the meet?

I've read through your log but I'm equally curious as to how to handle warm ups the day of the meet.

Thanks in advance!

Charles Staley

06-13-2010, 04:37 PM

Would you coach someone from that camera angle? Haven't you read Starting Strength?

Looks pretty good to be, but again, bad camera angle

Hey Charles,

I thought my technique was pretty good due to the weight I was moving but took some video and it painted a different picture. I'm noticing I don't get even close to full extension at the knees or hips. Do I just need to wait longer before I try to shrug it up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsuhEECTXIA&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK1NIAq1EJI&feature=channel

NewWorldMan

06-14-2010, 04:15 PM

If trying to squat under causes you to cut your pull, try this cue:

As you near the finish of your pull, imagine that there's a button above your head that you can only hit if you stretch to absolute full extension. When your head hits the button, it releases a trap door under you, which you fall through (into the squat)

Also: make whatever technical issue you're working on the goal, NOT making the lift. For example, if you're hesitant to squat under a snatch, make squatting the criterion for a successful lift, NOT actually making the lift.

As for final 6-7 weeks/warming up for the meet, start practicing your warm-up ritual now in training. For me on the snatch for example, my warm-ups are always the same: after some overhead squats with the bar, I do

20kg (2x3)
30kg (2x3)
40kg (2x3)
50kg (2x2)
60kg x1
65kg x1
70kg x1

Then my opener would be anywhere between 73-75kgs

After establishing this ritual in training, you'll know exactly how to warm-up at the meet, as well as how long it'll take.

Oh, and having Rip handling you at the meet helps a lot too ;-)

Thanks for the cue and the concept related to the proper goal! Excellent coaching points!

As well, thanks for the warm up examples.

I imagine you do well with Rip in your corner. I suspect I will do well with USAW Sr. Coach (he sits on the Board as well) in my corner! If anything, his love for the sport inspires me to do my best!

Josh Ferguson

07-15-2010, 11:19 AM

I read the thread with Greg C about starting out, and I had some questions regarding beginner programming.

I am a novice O-lifter (took 1 private lesson at Mike's Gym), and I guess I tried to progress too quickly and ended up hurting my shoulders by attempting to snatch more than I can handle.

I'm doing 531 and would like to hear some strategies for introducing the snatch and C&J--and their related lifts--into my routine, just for some power development. Since I cannot snatch that much weight, what kind of volume should I use--and on which day--to get better? And what type of progression is realistic? My schedule and budget cannot support more lessons right now, but I do have unlimited access to a platform and bumpers.

Right now, I'm doing 3 sets of 3-posit snatches with 65-95 lbs before my squats or deads. I still get pretty squirrelly on this lift, but the one time I spent a few hours working on technique, my shoulders got fried (impingement of the supraspinatus). I'm trying to eliminate my ego from the situation as much as possible, but I'm sure most people can understand my frustration since I can lift respectable weight in practically everything except the snatch and overhead squat.

FYI, my goal is to be as big, strong, and explosive as possible; I won't ever compete, I just want to be more useful and harder to kill. Basically, I just want to be a beast by the time I go to Iraq next year.

NewWorldMan

07-16-2010, 05:25 PM

ok - so the last two weeks have been great training - the snatch was finally coming together, cleans are strong, and I'm 'starting' to get 'some' feel of how to jerk.

SNATCH: In the past three weeks I've warmed up and hit 70 on my first try - even when 6/8 w/70 (and one was a pressout) one time last week and I've PR'd with both 72.5 and then 75 the next session. Now both times this week I've missed 70 - and it's getting into my head now :-(

Sorry - no current video evidence (I've gotten good coaching corrections - I think I'm looking for help to get over the failures mentally when I approach the bar.)

My pull is strong - it seems that I'm sinking and losing it before I stand up.
Coach(es) have noted that my head is dropping down - so that will certainly cause issues losing it forward.

One other note was that I seemed 'shaky' on the bottom. After missing 65 on the way up and only getting 70 1/5 coach suggested to drop back down to 60 and do one snatch/OHS. He noticed that my stance on the receive/squat was too narrow and hence was 'shaky'. Did the second set of 60:1+1 w/a wider stance but still missed the 70 after that!

I am open for suggestions as to how to tackle this mentally. I am 'pulling the crap out of the bar'; it's just that I'm turning to mush when I drop under to receive it.

Any thoughts as to how to train the snatch - when I train tomorrow - should I just rep @ 60 or 65 or try and forget it and just work up to 70 (planned opener)? If 70, then how to attack mentally?

Tuesday: 40/2 50/2 55 60 65 70xxx1 60 70/1xx1x
Thursday:40/2 50/2 55 60 65x 70/x,1,x,x,x 60/1+1x2 (snatch plus OHS) 70/x

cleans are strong up to 95, jerks were mostly solid until a small pressout w/right arm on the 95.

MikeD

07-19-2010, 08:22 PM

That trap door thing is...interesting, did you come up with that? Interesting visual.

Bergie

07-30-2010, 07:36 AM

Thanks for the very useful information you provide here.

I have been lifting for about a year and a half using the SS and Bill Starr 5x5 programs. I have competed in one PL meet as well. I would like to give the Olympic lifts a try.

Here is some basic information about me that might be helpful.
51 years old
Squat 1RM 295 lb
Deadlift 1RM 335
Bench 1RM 215
Power Clean 5x3 140
Press 3x5 130

I found the program below that seems to fit the bill for a beginning Olympic lifter, as far as the specific lifts to be performed. My question is what weights should be used. The programs author says to use as much weight as can be done without one's form breaking down but does not give any advice on how to increase the weight as one progresses through the program.

Below is the first week of a 12 week program. Here is the link to the entire program if you want to check it out. (http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/cissek1.htm)

As an example the Snatch pull, NE is the first lift. It seem basically like a deadlift performed with a snatch grip. So should I using weights near my DL workset weight? There is no way I could come close to actually snatching that much but using a weight i could snatch for this move doesn't seem too productive.

Basically I am trying to understand how best to load the lifts and how increases in weight should be incorporated into the program.

Thanks

Monday:
1. Snatch Pull, NE, 5x6
2. Overhead Squats, 5x6
3. Back Squats, 3x12
4. Hyperextensions, 3x12
5. Weighted Sit Ups, 3x12 Tuesday:
1. Classic Clean, 5x3
2. Clean Pulls, NE 3x6
3. Push Jerk, 5x3
4. Behind the Neck Press, Snatch Grip, 3x12
5. Counter-movement Jumps, 3x3
Wednesday:
1. Snatch Pull, NE + Shrug, 5x6
2. Overhead Squats, 5x6
3. Front Squats, 3x8
4. Good Mornings, standing, 5x12
5. Incline Sit Ups, 3x12
6. Sprint 3x20 meters
Thursday:
1. Classic Clean + Split Jerk, 5x3+2
2. Clean Pulls, NE, 3x6
3. Behind the Neck Press, Snatch Grip, + Overhead Squats 3x12+6
4. Squat Jumps, 3x3
Friday:
1. Sprint 3x60 meters
2. Lunges, bar on back of shoulders, 3x12
3. Romanian Deadlifts, 5x12
4. Twisting Sit Ups, 3x12

Charles Staley

08-13-2010, 04:11 PM

Mmm, that's an old cue probably- I think I picked it up from Joe Micela/Team Arizona. Hope it's helpful to you

That trap door thing is...interesting, did you come up with that? Interesting visual.

Charles Staley

08-13-2010, 04:23 PM

For me, this program is far too complicated and inefficient.
I'd rather just see you snatching and clean & jerking off the floor, back squatting pulling, pressing, and that's about it. Assistance exercises can be useful to shore up weaknesses but I don't know what yours are

I'd do something like this

A Session
Snatch
C&J
Back Squat

B Session
Sntahc Pull From Floor
Press
Chins

C Session
Snatch
C&J
Deadlift

D Session
Clean Pull From Floor
Push Press

Use singles for snatch and C&J, 3-5 reps on everything else. Don't sweat the details. Strive for a specific performance on Snatch and C&J- say 5x1 with same weight. If successful, add 1-2 kgs next time and repeat. On other lifts, maybe bigger jumps

I'm sure you'll have more questions so ask away...

Thanks for the very useful information you provide here.

I have been lifting for about a year and a half using the SS and Bill Starr 5x5 programs. I have competed in one PL meet as well. I would like to give the Olympic lifts a try.

Here is some basic information about me that might be helpful.
51 years old
Squat 1RM 295 lb
Deadlift 1RM 335
Bench 1RM 215
Power Clean 5x3 140
Press 3x5 130

I found the program below that seems to fit the bill for a beginning Olympic lifter, as far as the specific lifts to be performed. My question is what weights should be used. The programs author says to use as much weight as can be done without one's form breaking down but does not give any advice on how to increase the weight as one progresses through the program.

Below is the first week of a 12 week program. Here is the link to the entire program if you want to check it out. (http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/cissek1.htm)

As an example the Snatch pull, NE is the first lift. It seem basically like a deadlift performed with a snatch grip. So should I using weights near my DL workset weight? There is no way I could come close to actually snatching that much but using a weight i could snatch for this move doesn't seem too productive.

Basically I am trying to understand how best to load the lifts and how increases in weight should be incorporated into the program.

Thanks

Monday:
1. Snatch Pull, NE, 5x6
2. Overhead Squats, 5x6
3. Back Squats, 3x12
4. Hyperextensions, 3x12
5. Weighted Sit Ups, 3x12 Tuesday:
1. Classic Clean, 5x3
2. Clean Pulls, NE 3x6
3. Push Jerk, 5x3
4. Behind the Neck Press, Snatch Grip, 3x12
5. Counter-movement Jumps, 3x3
Wednesday:
1. Snatch Pull, NE + Shrug, 5x6
2. Overhead Squats, 5x6
3. Front Squats, 3x8
4. Good Mornings, standing, 5x12
5. Incline Sit Ups, 3x12
6. Sprint 3x20 meters
Thursday:
1. Classic Clean + Split Jerk, 5x3+2
2. Clean Pulls, NE, 3x6
3. Behind the Neck Press, Snatch Grip, + Overhead Squats 3x12+6
4. Squat Jumps, 3x3
Friday:
1. Sprint 3x60 meters
2. Lunges, bar on back of shoulders, 3x12
3. Romanian Deadlifts, 5x12
4. Twisting Sit Ups, 3x12