Justin Lascek's CFWF Program [Archive] - Starting Strength Forums

Robert Beckett

02-24-2010, 11:58 AM

I've seen several threads where folks mention the "CFWF Program" posted by Justin Lascek in Autumn of 2009. The web page where it was orginally linked is gone, so I thought posting a current link to its location might be helpful.

I personally don't think of it as "the CFWF program" (because that's both vague and incorrect), but as the WFAC GPP Program. I feel this is more precise because it bills itself as a GPP program and its designer created it for his clients at the Wichita Falls Athletic Club. But maybe that's just me.

So here is a link: http://board.crossfit.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5781&d=1265323011

To summarize it:

MON: Squat, Press, Chin/Pullups
TUES: Power Cleans, MetCon
WED: Rest or Skill day
THURS: Squat, Bench
FRI: Deadlift, MetCon

Sets, reps, and weight increases are identical to Starting Strength workouts.

MetCons are short (8-10 minutes max) and intense. The doc linked to above includes some sample MetCons.

matclone

02-24-2010, 12:27 PM

Thanks for posting this, Robert.

JAM

02-24-2010, 12:34 PM

There are also several people running this style of programming (myself included) with decent success. Look in the General Training Logs for ideas.

Robert Beckett

02-25-2010, 11:40 AM

Thanks JAM.

JAM

03-02-2010, 12:00 PM

One of the things that hasn't been discussed much (searching hasn't turned up anything terribly useful) is trying to program this with an "intermediate" twist. AKA, the workout to workout linear gains have been exhausted.

I was thinking of trying something like this, when I make it that far:

Day 1
Volumn Squat
Intensity Press\Volumn Press (alt weekly)
Chins

Day 2
DL\PC (alt weekly)
Metcon

Day 3
off

Day 4
Intensity Squat (trying different things, like a triple, or 5 singles, or one 5rm)
Volume BP\Intensity BP (alt weekly)
Pullups (or maybe alt pullups and chins on day 1 and make this a row)
GHR

Day 5
Weighted Ab work
maybe do GHR here instead of day 4?
Metcon

Day 6 and 7 off (day 6 for me is typically an outdoor day for me, but it's casual)

With the upper body movements, progress would only be 5 lbs a month, so mathmatically it's no better than a "Wendler" program, but the squats would still be making 20lbs a month, and is better.

If anyone has tried this or had clients advance far enough to warrant such a change, I'd be interested in hearing your expierences.

PVC

03-02-2010, 02:56 PM

MON: Squat, Press, Chin/Pullups
TUES: Power Cleans, MetCon
WED: Rest or Skill day
THURS: Squat, Bench
FRI: Deadlift, MetCon

Just so you guys know, Justin made slight adjustments to this program and posted them on 70sbig.com. I think he posted it on December 24 (or 25) if anyone wants to look at the article. The "new" version is:

MON: Squat, Press, Power Cleans
TUES: Chin ups, Conditioning
WED: Rest
THURS: Squat, Bench, Deadlift
FRI: Conditioning

This way the strength training sessions are identical to those in SS, and they are fully separate from the conditioning sessions.

Robert Beckett

03-02-2010, 03:27 PM

So this new version we can definitely call the WFAC GPP Program then - to distinguish it from the "CFWF program".

I like this one because I can do the whole Tuesday workout at the track. Very thoughtful, Justin. :)

PVC

03-02-2010, 06:32 PM

So this new version we can definitely call the WFAC GPP Program then - to distinguish it from the "CFWF program".

Yeah. Crossfit has "MetCons", WFAC GPP has "conditioning".

Tiburon

03-09-2010, 04:14 PM

There are also several people running this style of programming (myself included) with decent success.

Can we get a report on how this is going? We're thinking about switching to a program like this for the summer

JAM

03-09-2010, 07:39 PM

I didn't do a terribly good job of logging my metcon/conditioning/cardio so I can't really give you measurable data regarding those aspects. I "feel" faster, and my endurance is about the same as before (but fairly low). I'm much stronger than I was, see below.

My September CFT: 680 @ 175lb BW
SQ: 225 1RM (with shitty depth)
Pr: 150 1RM
DL: 305 1RM

My latest successful worksets on this program: 210lb BW
SQ: 290 for 3 sets of 5
BP: 230 for 3 sets of 5
Pr: 165 for 3 sets of 5
DL: 345 for 1 set of 5
PC: 165 for 7 sets of 2

I don't believe in estimated maxes, so I won't try to figure those. I may get a wild hair and try another CFT in a few weeks just for kicks. Just using the current workset weight would give me a 800lb CFT.

I've had to do some deloading on the squat due to depth problems and some missed workouts in Jan. I've recently hit a wall on squats and powercleans, most likely due to a drop in calories, but it's possible i've simply reached the end of linear progression with this program. Should know soon tho.

I ate 5000+ kcal for the first couple months, and then dialed it back to 3500 kcal in late Jan (which may be whats causing problems, see above).

I'm 30 years old, 5'-8 male.

Platus

03-09-2010, 09:41 PM

Thanks for the thread. My girlfriend just started the program this week. She was doing SS, but really, really wants to slim down, so I thought this would be a good compromise.

kittenSmash

03-09-2010, 11:12 PM

Platus, did your gf lose any fat on SS? My Fiance seemed to lean out on a linear progression I put her on, and her diet sucks (she is already lean, damn good genetics people). I wish I could motivate her to try CFWF, good job there man.

JAM

03-10-2010, 07:02 AM

Platus, if she's got a very high bf% then this program would work great for making strength gains AND bodyfat reduction. If her bodyfat is moderate, and she doesn't eat enough, then she'll hit a wall very quickly on the strength gains.

This is the issue with my wife; she's 5'-10, weighs 160, wears a size 8-10 in pants. Body weight has stayed the same, has had an increase in work capacity, some early strength gains, and a moderate bf% drop. I just can't get her to eat enough to make additional strength gains.

Justin posted on the board once about using this program to make strength gains with conditioning "coming along" and then switching to a lower lifting volume (like each of the 4 main lifts once a week) with daily metcons to maintain the gained strength and greatly increase conditioning (i imagine a significant drop in bf% would occur also). I think his response was to a poster about to enter Seal training or something. (i'm going off memory here)

Platus

03-10-2010, 11:28 AM

kittenSmash and JAM:

Thanks for the input. She's 4'11" and about 130lbs. She did SS on and off (maybe 2 workouts a week on average) and gained some strength, lost some fat % (weight stayed the same), and developed an interest in and respect for heavy barbell lifts. But, at the end of the day, I think her primary goal right now is to lose her belly fat and get back in condition.

Here's the progress she made:

Squat: 45x3x5 --> 110x3x5
Deadlift: 55x5 --> 135x5
Press: 20x3x5 --> 50x3x5
Bench: 35x3x5 --> 55x3x5

As you can see, she started from a really detrained state. JAM - I think what you mentioned about Justin's conditioning program is a likely scenario. I think, if she commits to the eating, then we can push the strength gains farther; if she doesn't commit to the eating, then I think the goal would be to maintain strength while developing conditioning.

I suspect that once she is a bit happier about her body image she'll probably become more interested in setting some new strength goals. She already delights in teasing her friends that do yoga and jog, so I think her head is in the right place.

(OP: sorry if I hijacked the thread!)

JAM

03-10-2010, 11:56 AM

Here's the progress she made:

Squat: 45x3x5 --> 110x3x5
Deadlift: 55x5 --> 135x5
Press: 20x3x5 --> 50x3x5
Bench: 35x3x5 --> 55x3x5

I'd say she's made good strength gains. Keep up the good work.

JAM

03-11-2010, 07:24 PM

Just because I mentioned it earlier, I did a CFT tonight. 940lbs. It was 680lbs in late September. So a 260lb CFT gain in 5-6 months for a short geneticly deficient 30 year old male.

40lb BW gain, and some of it is fat, I don't care. That shit's easy to lose.

The program works.

jailer345

03-12-2010, 12:57 PM

Can anyone post a link to the old Wichita falls metcon workouts. I dont have a concept 2 rowing machine, so I am looking for some alternative metcon workouts.

KSC

03-12-2010, 02:57 PM

Jailer -

Go see my recent post in my log.

JAM

03-13-2010, 07:26 AM

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=13710&page=4

Post # 39. Excel spreadsheet with metcon ideas.

Robert Beckett

03-13-2010, 09:35 AM

Jailer -

Go see my recent post in my log.

KSC, in your post (http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showpost.php?p=110563&postcount=692) you present this program:

MON: Bench 5X5, Metcon w/ overhead element
TUES: Squat 5X5, Metcon w/ high-rep Oly lift element
WED: Rest
THURS: Press 5X5, Metcon w/ Dips or pushups
FRI: Deadlift 1X5, Metcon w/ Pullups, Deads, Oly Lift and/or OHS

Is this an Intermediate-level counterpart to the CFWF program?

Shem

03-25-2010, 04:34 PM

So a 260lb CFT gain in 5-6 months for a short geneticly deficient 30 year old male.

40lb BW gain, and some of it is fat, I don't care. That shit's easy to lose.

The program works.

Those are some nice gains: almost 40% in 6 months. Did you start off on just Starting Strength, or have you been mixing in these conditioning workouts from the beginning?

strongdaniel

03-25-2010, 04:42 PM

Those are some nice gains: almost 40% in 6 months. Did you start off on just Starting Strength, or have you been mixing in these conditioning workouts from the beginning?

I posted earlier that I've been starting to run in order to a race on May 2. One concern for me, is that I'm at the point where deadlifting every week is hurting my recovery. Is there any way to modify the CFWF program so that the deadlifts are coming every other week? Any suggestions?

DaveN

03-25-2010, 10:12 PM

Well, you could just... do them every other week. (seriously, I'm not trolling)

If you want to do something on the weeks where you don't DL, you could toss in an assistance exercise, maybe. But if you have recovery issues, that might be an issue.

Robert Beckett

03-26-2010, 09:30 AM

I posted earlier that I've been starting to run in order to a race on May 2. One concern for me, is that I'm at the point where deadlifting every week is hurting my recovery. Is there any way to modify the CFWF program so that the deadlifts are coming every other week? Any suggestions?

I have zero experience or credibiilty as a trainer, but I do know that the the "Onus Wunsler" variation on the original SS program calls for alternating Pulls from the floor with 3XF Chins plus 5X10 weighted Back Extensions. So in that sense, chins + BX could be seen as a sub for DL. FWIW.

JAM

03-26-2010, 07:54 PM

I posted earlier that I've been starting to run in order to a race on May 2. One concern for me, is that I'm at the point where deadlifting every week is hurting my recovery. Is there any way to modify the CFWF program so that the deadlifts are coming every other week? Any suggestions?

I recommend pulling from the floor at least once a week. How about this:
Day 1: SQ, BP, Chins
Day 2: run or conditioning
Day 3: off
Day 4: SQ, PR, Deads/PC (alternate these weekly)
Day 5: run or conditioning
Day 6 and 7 off

I'd use the PC to warm up the DL too. That way you get plenty of PC practice. Most people (including myself) suck at these. Work up to a heavy double or triple in ascending sets, then 1-2 DL warmups sets, then your DL workset. Do normal 5 sets of 3 for PC on the other week.

JAM

03-26-2010, 08:03 PM

Those are some nice gains: almost 40% in 6 months. Did you start off on just Starting Strength, or have you been mixing in these conditioning workouts from the beginning?

I never did SS before. I did Crossfit before, and wanted more strength, less stupid shit. Some of the their workouts were/are useful tho.

I don't think my results are amazing or anything. Would have been much better if I could manage to get more than 5 hours of sleep each night.

Edward Arbeck

07-18-2010, 08:23 PM

Anybody here using this programme?

And how does your metcons look? What exercises and how much?

Bronan the Barbarian

10-07-2010, 11:21 AM

Any more info, from Justin or from forumites with experience, on how to modify this for the intermediate trainee?

gzt

10-07-2010, 01:27 PM

Today's 70s big reposts the article with slight rewrites, but does not discuss the intermediate or the conditioning.

Regin Smidur

10-07-2010, 02:28 PM

If you dont mind putting down some scrilla Justin offers coaching over the phone, he could help you come up with a intermediate program.

I did CFWF for a couple of months. I did a metcon (:P) that came with the PDF involving dumbbell hang power snatches. Time went from 7:22 at first attempt to something like 5:12, and the timeframe 6 weeks is in my head. The other metcon was a ten minute cindy and I went from like 5 rounds to 9. Lifts improved very marginally to not at all, but I was eating 2600-3000 calories a day and lost 16 pounds while on it.

JAM

10-07-2010, 07:47 PM

Conditioning can be very very simple. Running or Rowing sprints. A couplet with jumprope and pushups is an example. Get in a fight. Run a mile as fast as possible. Pornstar style sex. Anything you have to work really hard at for eightish minutes. You only need a few different workouts.
People (including myself) can over complicate this shit.

For an intermediate twist: (i never got around to trying this, so this comes with a disclaimer)
Day 1: squat 5x5, press 3x5, pullups
Day 2: PC, Dips, Conditioning
Day 3: off
Day 4: squat a heavy triple, Bench. Alternated weekly with: light squat, bench
Day 5: RDLs, Chins, conditioning. Alternated weekly with Rackpulls, Chins, conditioning