My Muscular Buttocks [Archive] - Starting Strength Forums

Gary Gibson

05-15-2010, 12:18 PM

Thanks again, all. Heh. I'll still feel better once my raw squat and pull get over 600 and 700 respectively. Guaranteed: there will still be some 225 squatter saying I'm full of shit because X squats 1000 in the APF and doesn't agree with my training methods. What can ya do?

I'll just publicly log the highlights instead of the minutiae for a while.

Been working on my conventional pull for a while to capitalize on some of the squat strength I've built. Pulled 425 x5 for a PR at the Aurora seminar a few weeks back. 435 x5 a couple of weeks ago, 455, 475 and 490 all PRs last week, and last night I got 445 x5! I think I"m good for 505 in a couple of weeks...which is my meet max and best ever pull with a sumo stance (actually 506 to be exact). To match my best ever sumo with a conventional pull means that I am much stronger. I hope to be able to work up to a 540 sumo meet pull @ 181 at the USAPL U.S. Open in July.

Reintroduced heavy, less frequent squatting into my life this past week. Work sets 275x5, 315x4, 345x2, 375, 385, 385, 315x3. First time in a long while I'v squatted with more than 345. First 385 was fast, second a bit slower and harder, but my training partner said I was probably good for a double with 385 and a single with 405 as of right now. Hope to edge that up to over 440 at the meet as I cut the volume (so I'm not constantly slightly fatigued) and get my nervous system used to heavy weight again.

I'm slowly losing weight to get back into the 181 class. Down to 185 from 190 so far. Bench press does not like weight loss. It doesn't like it one little bit. But my abzors are coming into bold relief again and my love handles are clearly shrinking.

Edit: here's a little minutiae...

Hook grip on first four deadlifts at 445 x5, switched to mix quickly on the last and really had to push on the belt with my abs to keep my back from rounding. Thought I was going to break the belt! I am so proud of myself for keeping form when the going got tough on the third rep. Yaaaaay me!

Gary Gibson

05-22-2010, 12:03 AM

Very stressful day at work. After lots of frantic work, an issue went out all messed up and we had to resend a correction an hour later. Pretty sure I'll be fired for this next week.

Misunderstanding between me and the lady friend just a week before our romantic getaway.

But in between these two things, I missed a few heavy lifts.

Wanted to test something near my squat max, but not pour on the fire and try something closer to a real gym max next week. I ground through a hard 405, but I was feeling so pissed about work and so mad at the fact that I couldn't best my meet max 418 @ 179 (or that really, really hard 430 @ 184 I'd gotten the week before that meet) that I threw on a five on each side and then got buried by the 415 pretty damned quickly.

Benched for a while and I'm happy to report the small neoprene shirt worked like a goddamn charm. I worked up to a very hard paused single with 225 and then 185 for a triple and felt that slight strain in my right pec again. Went into the bathroom and put the neoprene over my tight t-shirt, then put a loose t-shirt over that to hide the fact that I was wearing a wetsuit top in a gym. Pec felt great. Everything felt great. The neoprene took just enough stress off the pec without helping me get more pounds, exactly like the neoprene knee sleeves.

When I squat like shit, I'm inclined to pull heavy to make myself feel better. This was a horrible idea this time of course, just like the squat attempt at 415 had been a horrible idea. I pulled 465 conventional, but felt my left glute seizing up. I should have left it alone. I put 505 on the bar and failed with it very quickly. Two weeks ago I'd done 490--a new PR by a lot--and last week I'd done 445x5x1 which was also a big PR for me. I had no right trying to pull heavy again this week. I'd even fucking posted about what a bad idea it was.

My eating has been horrible. I'm going about cutting the exact opposite of the right way. I'd only eaten breakfast and a Snickers bar before this evening's session. Yes, it was fucking stupid. Then I had carb-loaded Chinese food tonight. When I fuck up, I like to fuck up big.

Fuck.

Not particularly mad about losing weight. I'm about as strong as I was before. My squat regression started months ago, long before I decided to lose some pudginess. My deadlift is still higher and my bench is about the same. My squat is only a few pounds lower than my meet best so it's not the absolute end of the world.

Supposed to be peaking for the meet once I got some idea of my training maxes. A buddy advised that I start a little on the low side of any planned percentages. He's often done that and come out way stronger for it. "Train a little on the light side of the plan. If you feel you have more in the tank on test day, then go for it, but don't train at your limit for the entire cycle." It actually makes a lot of sense. The last time I tried to get cute on a Russian Squat/Peaking Routine, I jumped the weights too quickly because I was feeling strong. I thought I would wind up doing the 105% as 2x2 day!! Ha!!! Ended up getting the 105% all right...for a single! If I had stayed the course, I might have hit 105% on 1x1 day and then another single with another 10 or 15 lbs (like my buddy has in similar situations).

Lastly, I've started draining my OTHER knee because there's been a small effusion in that one for about a year. Definitely was missing a little bit of ROM because of it, but there seems to be no inhibition as the muscle didn't waste away at all. The fluid was bloody tonight, I'm guessing because I tore something on those max attempts. Oh well, it's nothing I haven't seen before with the other knee.

Don't worry. I don't need any platitudes about how things will get better in training, in the job or my love life. I'll just muddle through this like everybody else does. And even if I end up losing the job and the lady, I'll still have the barbells. Who needs money or love when you have a squat rack?

blowdpanis

05-22-2010, 01:29 AM

Play any videogames, Gary?

imnotbncre8ive

05-22-2010, 01:46 AM

This thread promised me 'muscular buttocks'. Where they at!?

You cock. Your training log is an inspiration and a fountain of knowledge for amateur lifters on this site.

Agreed, as are your articles.

Monster

05-22-2010, 11:07 PM

Gary,
Good luck with the job

Correlation != causation, but seems that things have gotten erratic since the lady came on the scene...

Gary Gibson

05-25-2010, 08:11 PM

The last three sessions...

2010-05-21
__________
SQ 45, 95, 135, 185, 225, 275, 315, 365, 405, 415x0
BP 45, 95, 135, 185, 225 paused, 185x3, 185 x4x2
DL 315, 365, 405, 465, 505x0

Tried the neoprene top (wetsuit) tonight. Worked like a charm. 185x3 gave my pecs the slightest bit of ache. The shirt removed that ache and I was able to get 185x4x2 with no trouble at all.

2010-05-23
___________
@184
BP 175 x6 x6 neoprene shirt
SQ 275 x6 x6 belt, knee wraps, neoprene shorts

Used the wetsuit shirt again for bench and then the knee wraps for the squat. Squat has never felt so good. No strain at all on knees at the bottom, much stricter form throughout because there was no "leakage" at the knees. This translated into a better maintain back angle (though the weight is very light at a little under 70% and that has to be kept in mind) and I even kept the bar in place much better than usual. Completely sold on the wraps now. They were too tight to keep on throughout the entire session, but I don't think I even got 10 lbs out of them.

2010-05-25
__________
@182
BP 185 x5 x7 neoprene shirt
SQ 295 x5 x7, belt, knee wraps, neoprene shorts

Luke immediately noticed that I was bit leaner. Bench felt fine. A tiny bit difficult on the last set. Spoke to super-strong Danny Tinajero about wraps. He agreed that he could never find a way to wrap them loose enough not to have to take them off after a few minutes. I think the wraps Rip uses are much shorter and lighter and that what I have are "high tech" wraps. Brett said there was no way I was getting any carryover with the shitty and loose way I was wrapping. Yet the wraps do take the stress off the bottom part where the capsule and all the connective tissue is most stretched. The wraps aren't giving me any pounds, but they are allowing me to train harder, longer and more frequently by keeping my knees from getting beaten up.

"But your knees aren't getting stressed so they're not getting tougher!" Well, they were just getting beaten the fuck up before so I'll happily wear the wraps so I can get stronger more quickly, thank you very much. I've noticed that I'm now able to squat down without pain on my off days, which has not been the case for the past couple of years. I'm wondering if I'll be able to run and jump again soon because the wraps are allowing my knees to recover and heal from the volume and intensity I tend to use.

Minimal or zero carryover, but just the right amount of support to let me do volume. I'm in love. This is what the neoprene used to do for me about 100 pounds ago. Speaking of neoprene, it may be time to upgrade from compression shorts to groove briefs. Again, the briefs are supposed to provide support, but not much in the way of added pounds.

Slowly then quickly I slide...

Gary's endnote: Please PM me directly with disagreements or start a thread about it on the training board.

PVC

05-25-2010, 09:59 PM

Here's a disagreement for you: I don't like this format you're using for recording your training sessions. I originally thought that your post ended after the first two lines, and then you've got a massive signature afterwards. Then I realized the numbers after that solid black line were part of the post, so I kept reading, only to be stopped again by another solid black line, followed by what I again mistook as a large signature. Realizing my mistake, my eyes coasted past the third black line, knowing fully that its end-of-post appearance was simply an illusion. What was I talking about?

Gary Gibson

05-28-2010, 10:52 PM

2010-05-27
@182~
BP 200 x4 x8 neoprene shirt
SQ 315 x4 x8 belt, knee wraps, neoprene shorts
CU x8, x8, x8

Bench felt uncomforably heavy for the first half of the eight sets, then felt entirely doable after that. Could have done many more sets. This fills me with confidence that I'll make it through the program. Squats also felt really good. I was trying to get two sets in for each time I wrapped my knees, but the second set would have me barely able to feel my legs. These "high tech" wraps are just too heavy to wrap loosely without falling down or offering zero support. Wraps make it really comfortable for my knees down in the hole and it feels like they give me something to push against in some way and it's resulting in me maintaining my back angle much, much better. I've also started looking at a spot straight ahead when I'm standing and keeping my eyes fixed there as I descend.

Still draining the left knee and was initially getting up to 100 cc per day with two or three drainings. This knee is not nearly as bad as the right was, but I did have a noticeable effusion and range of motion was slightly limited. Squatting heavy without good support results in a tearing feeling and more effusion, much like it used to with the right knee last year. This is clearing up miuch faster now because the effusion in this knee is simply not nearly as severe. No wasting due to inhibition seems to have occurred this time around and the effusion doesn't seem to refill very much at all. This should clear up in a few weeks as opposed to a few months.

Last rep of last set of chins was hard and I got stuck in the middle before grinding it out. Left wrist flexors complaining a bit up into the lower part of the elbow.

2010-05-28
@183~
BP 210 x3 x10 neoprene shirt
SQ 335 x3 x10 belt, knee wraps

Got a little shit from the Orlando Barbell PL Team today for coming back to bench and squat the very next day. Tried to explain Smolov, but I'm not sure they bought it.

Bench got heavy on the last few sets and (now) I'm a little worried about repeating this set and rep scheme with 10 more pounds. But will keep plugging on.

Squat was pretty good. I've been draining my left knee for a couple of weeks. The effusion is staying away, but comes back when I squat heavy and for volume. It's not much and draining 20 or 30 cc brings everything back to acceptable levels. I got up to 275 lb without anything at all on my knees today, but wrapped up for the last single warm up with 315. Brett kept an eye out for changes in back angle and I'm happy to report that I didn't get bent over on any of the reps. If anything, I'd go down too vertical sometimes and then be forced to correct on the way up. Also, once again, looking straight ahead/up felt much better with this percentage of 1RM, especially when I got to the later sets.

I didn't wear my neoprene shorts today and really didn't notice much of a difference. Greg lent me his old Titan Centurion which had been modified into a pair of briefs. Size 40, which is supposed to be about right for me, but which was extremely loose around the midsection. Snug around the legs, however. I tried them on for the eighth set and they gave me absolutely nothing in terms of pounds, but the tightness and support felt good and having them on my legs made it easier to push my knees out because the briefs offered resistance against which to push. My squat slowed down, however, because the briefs stopped me a bit like a box would have and I couldn't engage the stretch reflex of my hamstrings. For right now, I'm happy that I ordered my Titan suit so big (44) because it will probably be just a little more supportive than the neoprene pants I've been using.

Effusion started coming back during and after the session. By the time I got home I was able to pull an easy 20 cc out tonight, but there was no blood at all like there had been a few days ago. Want to make it clear that the effusion never gets nearly as big as it was before I started draining the thing a few days back. (I'm pretty sure it was first Smolov back in spring 2008--which took me from 245 to 295 in a month--did most of this damage to my knees. It was simply too much volume at that stage. My right knee was already screwed with an MCL strain and with quite a big effusion, but my left got this small effusion that I'm fighting now not long after that Smolov and really got bad when I moved all my stuff down from the fourth floor walkup apartment I had in Queens to the moving van.)

Shout out to Luke for his DL PR tonight. 455x1.

FAT BRETT

05-29-2010, 11:51 AM

I'm glad if my log inspires some, but I can't help but feel that really strong lifters are laughing at guys like me. .

I like to laugh at strong guys who don't make any progress because they are either to lazy or to stupid to put any thought into their training and recovery, I personally have much more respect for someone who may not have the most impressive numbers, but has made tremendous strides to get to the level they are at.

Most really strong guys know they are really strong and are more concerned with getting strogner than laughing at someone who isnt as strong, in my experience it is the strong guys who will likely never be "really strong" who do a lot of the laughing (granted really strong means different things to different people) often because they need some way to feel better about themselves as cliche as that sounds.

If you look at why people get into competitive lifting there are a lot who do it for what I would consider the wrong reasons, rather than simply the challenge of self improvement you find many people who venture into the gym to try and compensate for sexual innadequacy, lack of positive attention from their parents or poor body image, but rather than be supportive of people who are trying to get better they torment those who are weaker than them, its sad that often those who are tormented and eventually achieve some level of success feel the need to torment others, I could understand if they turned there attention to those that harrassed them, but they almost always pick on people who were just like they were.

Before I completely dive off the cliff into a full on Dr. Phil moment, just wanted to say there is a guy at the gym, i am not sure if you have met him yet or not, about five years ago he used to routinely go head to head with another lifter at a lot of the bigger meets they would do. Recently the lifter he used to compete against who has since moved up in weight and gotten much stronger, at a meet in Feb. after coming back from an injury which has hurt his bench he had a huge squat which was the heaviest squat by a masters lifter in his fed and all the quy at the gym (who is pretty much at the same level he was 5 years ago) could talk about that day was how he used to beat that guy when they went against each other.

K.Diesel

05-30-2010, 11:59 PM

Gary, 2-3 questions:

1. Have you ever run Smolov Jr. for bench and squat simultaneously before? If so, what were the results?

2. How long do those joint squat/bench sessions take?

indian_lifter

05-31-2010, 11:38 AM

I'm glad if my log inspires some, but I can't help but feel that really strong lifters are laughing at guys like me.

100% agreed with Brett.

You went from skinny to strong. Something im trying to replicate as a vegetarian. Got the milk down =D

Mr.City

05-31-2010, 11:53 AM

Christ, Gibson, you are in the upper tier of lifters here. I don't know why you would be concerned about other lifters laughing at you.

Gary Gibson

06-01-2010, 11:19 PM

2010-06-01
@184+
BP 185 x6 x6
SQ 295 x6 x6, belt, knee wraps

Just got back from the Gulf Coast. Had to drain my knee several times while I was there and it was still quite full upon my return to the Orlando area. Didn't have the neoprene shirt with me so benched practically naked, but had no trouble. Easy session today. Form got really sharp with the third set.

Squats got me winded a bit and I coughed like crazy because I'm still suffering from this persistent cough that goes into overdrive when I suck wind too hard. Knees both felt awful and I was incredibly shaky under the warm up sets without a belt or wraps. Neoprene didn't do diddly with 135 and 225. Sets themselves weren't that awful with the belts and wraps. Able to get really even push with both legs, especially after the third set when my form really got spot on. Found also that looking down worked just fine with this weight and actually felt stronger than looking up.

Knees have been feeling swollen and tired these past few days. They were feeling great until I did two squat sessions on consecutive days. Looks like I just can't do that. Note that the knee draining has nothing to do with the overuse. My formerly troubled right knee which used to require multiple draining per day due to ligament damage is not giving me a hint of effusion trouble. This constant draining is required to fight the long-standing effusion that used to be present in my left knee.

Gary, 2-3 questions:

1. Have you ever run Smolov Jr. for bench and squat simultaneously before? If so, what were the results?

2. How long do those joint squat/bench sessions take?

I've started such an attempt several times before, but burned out within a week. I'm trying it again this time, but on Brett's suggestion I toned down the actual projected weight a bit and I'm managing to make it through. Brett's experience is that it is far more productive to train slightly under your planned percentages than try to train at or over them. I have always tried to train at my best case numbers, but I often burn out and fail. This time I took my recent training max of 405 for the squat and then subtracted 5 lbs from the numbers AND added knee wraps a) so I could actually get through the Smolov without my knees running away from home in protest in the middle of the night while I slept and b) so they effectively subtracted another 5-10 lbs from my lifts with their elastic rebound assistance.

The sessions take about an hour on the x6x6 days and go for about an hour and a half by the time the x3x10 days roll around. If I'm not feeling especially energetic, I'll take at least 20 minutes rest between the bench and the squat. Bench is always first because it simply doesn't drain me the way squats do. Smolov BP just doesn't affect Smolov SQ much, but the reverse is not true.

100% agreed with Brett.

You went from skinny to strong. Something im trying to replicate as a vegetarian. Got the milk down =D

Thanks. I agree too. Thanks to City and to Brett for the Dr. Phil moment.

TTT

06-02-2010, 03:34 AM

Gary - how long can you keep doing the knee draining?
is it causing any long term damage?

what is the general "fix" to the condition that you have going there?

Gary Gibson

06-03-2010, 03:23 PM

I had MCL damage to my right knee a couple of years ago that healed into a huge lump of scar tissue that I massaged away over several weeks. This was accompanied by an extreme effusion (build up of synovial fluid in the joint capsule) that deformed the knee ("boggy" looking), limited ROM, inhibited contraction of the quads, hams, adductors and gastrocnemii and resulted in atrophy even as my left leg kept getting stronger. Took forever to find a doc who would drain it a couple times, but it kept coming back and he refused to drain it anymore...but no docs would perform surgery either. So I read up on it and decided to drain it myself till it stayed gone. It took about eight months and multiple drainings each day, but it eventually stopped refilling and the muscles all got bigger and stronger and no that knee has full ROM and the leg is strong and the joint is stable. The MCL still crackles during conventional deadlifts, but that's about it.

The left knee has a much smaller effusion that I am now draining and which will likely go away much quicker because it was not as large to begin with. One draining just doesn't do the trick. The joint apparently sets itself to the new fluid volume really quickly and insists on producing enough fluid to keep it at that higher volume. Takes weeks or months of draining to "train" it to a lower level. The left knee has been responding much better, but the loss of fluid plays tricks with the supporting structures for a while (something I learned from my experience with the much weaker, less stable right knee). That's likely why my left knee is giving me so much shit lately.

Here's today's entry:

2010-06-03
@~184
BP 195 x5 x7, neoprene shirt
SQ 315 x5 x7, belt, wraps

Put on the neoprene shirt today, but took it off for the fifth set just to see if it felt any different. All the sets w/ 195 were feeling so incredibly easy. Felt a teeny little bit less stable/powerful without the compression stretch of the shirt, but we are talking a 1 or 2% difference here. I kept checking the bar to make sure I had on the right weights. Bench is funny like that. 195 for these sets and reps feels easy, but I just know 210 with the next set and rep scheme is going to be much tougher.

Squats were pretty strong today and felt stronger with each set all the way till the end. I got a bit winded, but managed to keep my rest times amazingly short for Smolov, just a little over 3 minutes. Knees, particularly the left, were feeling achy during the warm ups. I did up to 225x3 without knee sleeves or wraps and that hurt a bit just above both patellae, but especially above the left. Hard to keep knee angle opening at the rate of the hip angle because the pain was distracting. 275x1 didn't feel that good at all even though I used the Rehbands for it. Did 295x1 with belt and sleeves and then wrapped up for the work sets with 315. I could NOT do this shit without wraps at this point. Bar felt lighter with each set and I managed to keep the back angle really well. Tried various head positions and discovered my favorite really was head down at the bottom and then tossed up on the ascent. Head down at the bottom is the strongest, but pushing head up on the way up helps maintain the back angle.

Nearly killed Jo Jordon (1008 lb SQ in competition) as I was the only spotter available on his semi-raw doubles with 615 (in knee sleeves!). I brought the monolift hooks back a little too hard and threw him off balance while I was behind him. Good thing he had the chains hanging there to act as stops. Despite my blunder Jo was still gracious enough to answer a bunch of questions for me about wraps and knees...and even trusted me enough to spot him again for his last couple of sets!

Gary Gibson

06-06-2010, 06:22 PM

2010-06-05
@183.5
BP 209/210 x4 x8, neoprene shirt
SQ 335 x4 x8, belt, alternated wraps with double knee sleeves.
CU x9 x3

All the regular bars were either taken or bent so Brian had me use one of the chrome bars. They only weigh 37-38 lbs. So I had to load it up so it LOOKED like 215, but it was actually only 207-208. Target weight was 210 today so I added collars this time to bring it a little closer to that. Weight felt incredibly light. I think I might have done an extra set without noticing. Also the chrome bar was much, much easier on the hands. My left palm has a callous across it from where the unfinished bar always pinches. Chrome bar didn't do that at all.

Went to lunch with sis and her fam. Came back several hours later to squat. Forgot my wraps at home and Brian let me borrow his old, training 2.5 meter Metal Blacks. I am in love. They were amazing, plenty of support which I really felt laterally. I had both sets of Rehband Blues--medium and large. I alternated using double Rehbands and the Metal Blacks. Really not much difference in pounds given. The squats were a little easier with the knee wraps, but not by very much. Got a lot of calls for "head up!" from the powerlifting team as they benched. I think I DO hold my head down and only turn my EYES up at the sticking point. Head down still feels stronger, even if there is a higher chance of losing back angle.

Knees felt MUCH better overall this time which is why I was willing to try the double sleeves on a few sets. But the reps with the knee sleeves were hell on my knees. Really needed the support of the wraps. My left knee really filled up just a couple hours after the session. I drained over 40 cc out of it, which is twice the normal volume I get. I believe the wraps are allowing me to train hard while the knee pulls itself back together. I was able to work up to 275 completely 1000% raw with very little complaint from my knees at all. I only used a single layer of sleeves and a belt for the last warm up with 315. I think if I had just used the wraps for all the sets with 335, my knee would NOT have refilled like it did.

I won't be using double sleeves again because today I gave away my large Rehbands to a larger lifter. The larges were just too stretched out to be doing much good for my little knees. I really like the Metal Blacks and want a pair, but I also want to experiment with tight APT sleeves made from wrap material. For right now, I'll just use my Titan Titaniums to keep my knees healthy and still train as hard as I like.

2010-06-06
@182+
BP 219/220 x3 x10, neoprene shirt
SQ 355 x3 x10, belt, wraps, and on last set briefs

Bench went great, though I slowed down a bit on the latter sets. I think I was keeping the rest times too short. Waited a longer while on the last set and got some of the bar speed back.

Squats were nearly a disaster. Went up to 315 completely raw. Knee seemed okay. Put on belt and sleeves for 335 and it went pretty slow because I was afraid to bounce at all. 335 x3 felt heavy right away and I started getting Smolov Bad Thought Syndrome really intensely. Made it through and the bar felt a bit lighter as I progressed. Lengthened rest times at the halfway point.

I've been having some niggling pain at the attachments at the proximal end of my left femur. On the ninth set of squats today, something felt like it tore and bled deep in my left glute on the first rep. I managed to finish, but I was in pain. Good thing I still had the modified Titan briefs that Greg lent me a couple weeks ago. He told me to hold onto them until my squat suit arrived. They're extremely loose over my torso, but tight around my thighs. I pulled them on for the last set and it did the trick. They gave support at the very bottom where my connective tissue would have been stressed. But they gave me very little help with the actual weight. I was just able to go harder and with only minimal pain at the bottom.

Knee didn't like whatever I did today. Got 45-50 cc out of it in no time flat when I got home. That's a record. Both left hip and left knee are very angry with me right now.

indian_lifter

06-06-2010, 07:14 PM

Gary, ive gotta know. Are you a doctor?

You've got quite an extensive knowledge of the human body and its workings.

TomF

06-07-2010, 12:56 PM

I know virtually nothing about this, so take it for exactly what it's worth.

If my kid was doing something that required him to stick a needle into his own knees to drain off sometimes as much as a shot of fluid every time he trained ... we'd have a talk about his pastimes, and what his body was appearing to try and tell him.

With the greatest respect, be sure you're not thinking like the 18 year old you once were - nobody's bulletproof. You'll still want those knees when you're 60. Unless you don't ever intend to be 60.

Gary Gibson

06-07-2010, 02:30 PM

I'm not a doctor, but I play one when I have to.

Funny thing about persistent effusions. They only go away with constant draining. I know this because the very large effusion that caused my right leg to waste away to nothing over nearly two years, only stayed away permanently after I spent eight months draining it. It's been nearly a year and the effusion hasn't come back and the right leg muscles are nearly every bit as muscular as the left's. The right knee is as stable as can be considering the permanent damage to the MCL as a result of several violent lateral twists.

I have plenty of experience with what it takes to get rid of an effusion because several specialists refused to help me. I'm still pissed about the complete lack of regard I got from several orthopedic surgeons who kept accepting my co-payment, but who did nothing to fix my knee. I did what I had to do to get back to health and now I'm squatting several hundred pounds more than I was when I first damaged my knees. I cataloged what I learned in my original training thread "A Scrawny Lifter's Redemption Song." It's not my fault the several doctors I saw weren't willing to do anything about my problem. I would have gladly let them, but as with most things in this world, you get what you pay for (so good luck with "free" medical care) and if you really want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

My left knee also has some effusion from way back which I suspect is a symptom of overuse. It's not nearly as bad as what was going on with the right knee and it won't take as long to clear up. But as with the right knee, it's going to take several drainings to get it to settle down permanently. The refill used to happen with my right knee when I used it for ANYTHING, like walking or climbing stairs. With the left, it's only from lots of heavy squatting so I consider myself luck. Heavy squatting causes refill, but it also strengthens the knee so refill stops happening. I just have to keep draining and training. Trust me. I know from experience.

TomF

06-07-2010, 03:02 PM

Gary Gibson

06-07-2010, 03:14 PM

OK - you obviously know your way 'round this.

Be damned careful to use only sterile implements for that draining exercise - if it's such a regular thing, it will be easy to get complacent. You do not want to introduce some kind of infection in there by cheaping out on needles or half-assed cleaning processes, and get things really bolloxed up ... or give yourself some otherwise exciting disease like hepatitis.

Thanks.

For legal purposes, allow me to make it clear that the following is completely conjecture and does not necessarily reflect any event that has actually taken place and that any resemblance to persons living or dead is entirely coincidental.

But were I to regularly drain my knee, I'd make sure that it was with a new needle and syringe every single time and that the entry site was thoroughly bathed in Betadine both before and after the injection. Needles and syringes are criminally inexpensive and there's no reason ever to use a needle that has even the slightest chance of having been contaminated. If it so much as brushes another surface after it's removed from the plastic and before it can be injected, then it should be discarded.

Also, I'm not encouraging anybody else to try this. I don't expect everyone to have the brains and courage to pull this kind of thing off, or the desire, grit and foolhardiness to train the squat so much and so hard that it becomes necessary.

MazdaMatt

06-07-2010, 03:43 PM

Since a single syringe costs 26 cents (I'm sure they're cheaper in packs), there's really no need to screw around with it. Gary, you're hardcore.

Gary Gibson

06-10-2010, 10:50 PM

Since a single syringe costs 26 cents (I'm sure they're cheaper in packs), there's really no need to screw around with it. Gary, you're hardcore.

Thanks. 100 22- or 23-gauge 1.5" needles complete with 3 cc syringes (which can be emptied and reused with the needle still in the joint as often as it takes to get 30-50 cc of fluid out) may or may not cost only $30 plus $10 shipping.

Here are the last couple entries...

2010-06-08
@183?
BP 199/200 x6 x6, neoprene shirt
SQ (this gets complicated) 305 x6 x4, 315 x6 x2, 355 x5, belt, various wraps, neoprene shorts

Bench felt great again. Good bar speed for the first four sets, slowed down on last two. Nothing much else to report here. Squats, however, got a little complicated...

Went up to 275 naked on the warm up. Was about to put on 315 when I remembered that today's work weight was only 305. Sam offered to let me try his Metal Black wraps and Ronnie offered his Titan Max RPM (with the orange double stripes). I used my own wraps for the first couple of sets. Everyone said my first set was high, but that's because I was trying to avoid extreme knee flexion out of fear of inducing another effusion in the left knee. I wrapped up a little tighter to boost my confidence and hit depth. In fact, my reps from then on were "low bar Olympic."

I was feeling so good that I did something kind of dumb and upped the weight to an "even" 315 for the last couple of sets. Ronnie wrapped me a bit tighter for the last set and the set definitely felt a little easier. I was still feeling so strong after that that I put 355 on the bar and had Sam wrap me really tight. Couldn't bend my legs under my own power and rapidly lost feeling in my lower legs. That led to comedy when I couldn't bend my knees at all under 355, mostly because of the sheering pain at the back of my knees, and I did an ugly good morning. It took a while for the pain to fade. After ten minutes I wrapped much more loosely with my own Titaniums one more time and got a relatively easy five with 355 (when I say "relatively" I mean that the last reps slowed down, but I was good for two or three more).

Completely screwed up the Smolov programming, but I was just feeling so good tonight. Still continuing with the last week of the Smolov and I may up the weight on a couple of sets from the planned percentages.

Left hip hurt a bit in the same spot atop the femur, but that pain subsided as the session went on. Nearly pulled the Titan briefs on after the first set, but decided to hold off. It's been a few hours since the session and the knee has NOT filled in enough for me to notice. This may change by the time I wake up. I did one rep of a front squat with 225 with just neoprene and was immediately worried that I induced an effusion because of the way my knee felt. Right now it looks like I'm okay.

I am a little sad that I couldn't train without wraps at all right now. I can squat a heavy-ish rep here and there (heavy-ish for me is a little over 315) without wraps, but there's no way in hell I could stand an entire session with that weight--or even really light weights--right now. My left knee would fill like a water balloon and probably hurt for days. My right knee wouldn't fill, but it wouldn't like it either. Still, I'm glad that the wraps are there at all to allow me to keep training. I don't care that they're giving me 10-20 lbs or that I'm "lying to myself about the weights I can really lift." In a few weeks my knees will both be recovered and I'll be a lot stronger. When I put up a couple of PRs in raw competition, maybe that will convince a few more people about the wisdom of training with the appropriate amount of gear. (What's appropriate is a matter of training age, actual age, volume intensity and level of injury.)

Just drained the knee for the hell of it. Got 30 cc. A little bit more than usual. Still, this is not refill from the squat, just the normal excess. Overall the effusion is much smaller and I'm thrilled that it stayed that way after all the squatting I did. I chalk it up to a combo of healing and protection from the knee wraps.

2010-06-10
@181+
BP 210 x5 x7, neoprene
SQ 335 x5 x7, belt, wraps, neoprene shorts

Completely screwed up last session and used 200 instead of 190 for the third/last x6x6. Just rolled with it today and went up to 210. To make up for it a little bit, I'll do a 10-lb jump to the next session instead of 15. Anyway, it went pretty well. Got a little worried because the fifth set felt hard. But I'd been keeping the rests very short so I lengthened them to a little over 5 minutes. Had to hurry to get back to the job, however, and that's why I'd been keeping them on the short side in the first place. Last couple of sets were a little slower, but surprisingly strong considering a) I got through the session in twenty minutes and b) I was 10 lbs over the called-for weight today.

Spent another few hours at work and came back to SQ. Brett and Richard both kept an eye on my depth and insisted that I tended to go no lower than parallel on most of my reps, especially my firsts of the sets. Thing is, I've been worried that I'd been going TOO deep, as in losing tightness at the bottom and losing hamstring tension (like when I go low bar Olympic). I think people in general are just not familiar with the low bar squat and what it's supposed to look like at the bottom. Brett put it well; the hips are supposed to be kind of high. The hip angle is smaller than it would be in a high bar or front squat, but the knee angle is more open. At the bottom of a low bar squat, one shouldn't be able to get the butt close to the ankles. I've never been redlighted for a squat in any of my three USAPL meets, so I'm guessing I'm deep enough.

In any case, I wrapped up again for the work sets and my left knee still felt like it was tearing open on each rep. The refill was clearly coming back during the session. Richard said it looked like I had an extra muscle on the outside of my patella, the swelling got so big. Only drained about 30 cc when I got home, but I'm feeling beat up overall, and especially in my left knee. I'm using 10 more pounds than was called for because I felt like I was getting more from my wraps. Not so sure about that call now!

The weight felt impossible when I first walked it out, but by set three it felt pretty good. My main problem was with how beat up my knees--especially the left--felt on each rep. But this is to be expected at this age, this intensity, volume and frequency. What I'm doing is incredibly stupid, but after Sunday, I'll rest a week, simulate a meet for new maxes, then take a couple of easy weeks of light benches and no squats or pulls. After the meet, I'll be taking it easy for a few weeks (I'll probably be moving to another state around then anyway) and staying away from barbells for a little while. It is my fervent hope that fall finds my knees recovered from this insane abuse.

Target weights for test day are 455 SQ w/ loose wraps (440 without maybe, but I'm testing with the wraps), 280 BP and 535 DL conventional (just shy of triple bodyweight). I'll be using knee sleeves instead of wraps at the meet and pulling sumo instead of conventional, but I won't be trying either with any real weight till the meet itself. Will just have to go by feel on the SQ and back off if 440 feels like will destroy me in just sleeves. I will warm up and compete with sumo pulls and hope to pull at least 20 lbs over whatever I got conventional on test day.

FAT BRETT

06-12-2010, 11:46 AM

you went below parlell on probably 70% of your reps, but you didnt bury any of them, good thing the rule book says break paralell not go x inches below, so for a judge who is following the rule book as it is written about 70% would have passed, the rest looked to be at paralell, if you look at the 430 vid on your facebook the depth on your warmups was lower than most of your squats the other day, so you may just be spending too much time amongst us high squatters

Gary Gibson

06-12-2010, 11:38 PM

I'll have to ask everyone to ignore Brett's post as his judgment is skewed by both personal practice (his own high squats) and envy (of my ATG squats).

Seriously though, I recorded a couple sets of squats yesterday and I am just hitting parallel most of the time. It's true.

2010-06-12
@~182
BP 220 x4 x8, neoprene shirt
SQ 355 x4 x8, belt, wraps, neoprene shorts (no heel in deadlift slippers)

Warmed up the bench without the neoprene shirt and noticed the difference right away. Right pec felt just a little bit achy. Used the chrome bar again so the weight with collars was more like 218 or 219 than an even 220. I know this isn't a lot of weight, but I'm still very happy with how I maintained form and stayed strong and fairly fast throughout the session. This is eight frigging sets with almost 90% of my max for four reps each. This is essentially my previous 4RM max for a bunch of sets of four! And they didn't feel that bad.

The big experiment today was ditching the heeled shoe in the squat. I came to the conclusion that a heel was allowing too much forward shin and more acute knee angle, which got even worse when I got even a little sloppy and slid my knees forward. Flat footed means nearly vertical shins at the bottom and much less stress on the knees. It worked. I used my deadlift slippers (will be picking up a pair of Chucks and saving up for a pair of Metal PL shoes with no heel rise). It felt weird not to be strapped into wood and neoprene, but I got used to it. Warmed up to a knee sleeve-only single with 315 and then a knee sleeve and belt single with 335. Neither was that pretty or even because I just don't feel safe moving quickly and forcefully under higher percentages without wraps. But sets with 355x4 were pretty good considering this is about 89% of my knee sleeve and belt recent 1RM. 89% is a little over target, but 4-5% was due to the wraps (about 15 or 20 lbs), so it all comes out in the wash.

I recorded my third and seventh sets. Third was from 3/4 back and revealed I was going exactly to parallel and that I cut the last rep a little high. Worked hard to get below on remaining sets and my seventh set recorded from the right side showed me breaking parallel and keeping a decent back angle on every rep. The back angle deteriorated a bit on the last rep, but that's to be expected.

Both my knees felt so good today because I went flat foot. I thought I'd be spared any refill. My left knee started feeling beat up as I drove home, but the effusion seemed to be staying away. Then all of a sudden it started to come. I tried to ignore it, but it was making the tender knee hurt and limiting ROM quite a bit. I ended up draining 35 cc (and recording most of that). It's been much, much worse recently with the heeled shoe in Smolov (almost 50, then about 20 more later on), but I'm still a little bummed. Just wish it would stop already. Of course, I went through the same sort of thing with the much, much worse right knee and I know that this will eventually sort itself out if I just keep draining when needed.

I'm going to need to shell out nearly $100 for new small Rehbands for the meet. These mediums have been stretched out to uselessness and I'm going to need something tight and a little supportive if I'm going to compete (I hate this damned anti-wrap sentiment).

2010-06-13
Did not complete Smolov.

I've been compressing this last week a bit. I went to the gym very late last night so I could do my routine at around midnight instead of in the evening like a sane person. Tonight I went back again to get the last session out of the way. Didn't work.

Got to the fourth set of BP 230 x3 x10 and completely died on the first rep. I knew it was coming, though. I knew right away that I didn't have ten sets in me. I did a sit up with the weight and two brothers came over to take the bar off my lap. I thanked them, stripped the weight and stood contemplating the squat rack for five minutes.

My left knee had been extremely stiff and tender all day. Didn't look horribly effused, but I knew any squatting would trigger more refill. And my knee was also in pain and I was just not anywhere near recovered. Not a good way to be trying 94% 1RM for ten triples. So I actually let wisdom win this time and went home.

Got a record amount of synovial fluid out tonight. ~55 cc at once. About 10 cc of that spilled on the floor between syringe changes. Last night's draw was turgid, but tonight's was clear. Thing is, the knee didn't seem more effused than usual. I think I really cleared it out of fluid tonight. I don't know if this helps it "reset" to a lower constant level faster, but I sure hope so.

Not sure what comes next now. I'm definitely taking a week off and I suppose I should test to see if I got any pounds, but I need to tone down my expectations. I'd be thrilled with a 440 SQ with loose wraps right now, as well as a 505 conventional deadlift. My main desire, however, is for the left knee to settle down a bit while I give it a chance to pull itself together this week.

May have to do a big drain after the test day, but going to avoid squatting for the two weeks leading up to the meet. And if my knee is still feeling wonky come the entry deadline, then I won't enter. And my next SQ protocol will call for no more than two sessions per week! Probably going to do Texas Method and just let myself get over 200 lbs. I tried very hard to hit 450-275-550 as a 181, but now it's time to get back on track and move up to the 220+ I need to be. 500 SQ w/ a belt at 200 is the next stop.

simonsky

06-13-2010, 12:27 AM

FAT BRETT

06-13-2010, 01:34 PM

spotters are allowed even in the usapl, that sucks about the accidental weighted sit up, what does the week off entail? I would suggest an increase in both sleep and sandwich consumption.

Gary Gibson

06-13-2010, 02:10 PM

fuck how do you change sigs every other day? or even get one?

good luck on the knee hope it doesn't get worse. and i hope you hit your head or get a dream of something that makes you wanna gain more weight.

Click on the User CP in the top row and then click on "Edit Signature" in the left column.

I want to do this USAPL raw at 181 in July before moving up. I like to try to get two meets at a given weight class just to have official results to mark my improvement at a given weight.

I'm also thinking about putting up official belt-less numbers in Raw United's Ironman division. The meet's right here in Orlando and I would love to have some official belt-less numbers as ammo against those that claim training with a belt doesn't build "real" strength well.

I'll be looking to put on weight as of late August and maybe get in one USAPL meet at 90 kg before the end of the year.

spotters are allowed even in the usapl, that sucks about the accidental weighted sit up, what does the week off entail? I would suggest an increase in both sleep and sandwich consumption.

Thanks, FB.

Please note, Brett is also very encouraging about my progress when I see him in the gym. After I'm done squatting, he'll often walk over to the rack and start overhead pressing my squat work weights, and comment "Hey, Gary, these are getting pretty heavy! You're getting strong, buddy! Way to go!!!"

The week off will entail very little outside of eating sammiches and sleeping. I'm actually willing to put on a few pounds to aid recovery. I'm sure I can lose those pounds again in a couple of days in order to lift as a 181 on July 11.

Edit: I drained another 30 cc of fluid from the knee this morning. This was all refill from while I slept. I won't be lifting this week so it will be easy to see how much refill is coming as a matter of course as opposed to a result of lifting.

K.Diesel

06-13-2010, 04:19 PM

Click on the User CP in the top row and then click on "Edit Signature" in the left column.

Either I'm blind, or I don't have an "Edit Signature" button in the left column. I think you have to be money to get it. ;)

Gary Gibson

06-14-2010, 04:54 PM

Drained about 30+ cc yesterday and another 30+ cc today. Amazing how my body is insisting that the old level of fluid was right. It will take several more weeks/months to convince it otherwise.

Wonder how deeply overtrained I am. This whole not being able to jump thing is getting old really fast. These three days of not squatting have been nice. When I can squat again, I'm only going to do it twice a week with just two or three work sets.

Update, Monday June 14, 2010

Drained again and got another 35 cc of tinged fluid. It's reddish and sort of thick as opposed to the usual light, easy flowing amber. Knee wasn't feeling bad or looking especially full, but I went ahead and took the excess out anyway.

Note: the 23 gauge goes in twice as easily as the 22 gauge.

Update again...

Drained another 12 cc and now the knee is about as free of noticeable effusion as it's been in the last several years.

Update, Tuesday June 15, 2010

Drained about 20+ cc this morning and another 20+ cc tonight. Clear both times. Just drained another 10+ cc with a more frontal angle of attack and got some very bloody fluid.

Wednesday, June 16, 2010

9:30 am: ~15cc of peach-colored, turgid fluid. Volume of draws is clearly trending down, but blood content seems to be going up. Only two days of heavy squatting (test day and then three weeks later the meet) planned for the next month. No other squatting planned. Will be easy to note how much effusion each bout of squatting brings on.

10 pm: ~15 cc of the same from a slightly more lateral angle. Looks like the trend is holding.

Thursday, June 17, 2010

4 am: 13 cc almost exactly of the same. Couldn't get anymore out. This same point of entry is usually good for over 20 cc. I'm guessing the effusion really is dying down. I'd hate to bring it back with a round of heavy squatting in a couple of days if just waiting a few more weeks would make it go away entirely.

I was looking through my old log. I started the draining of the right knee during the very final days of March, 2009; by September I was reporting that the effusion was not coming back. I don't remember when the very last drain was, but I'm to say that I drained pretty consistently from April through August and probably stopped in August. I reported walking all over NYC the last weekend in August and then on September 11, 2009, I reported no refill. I know the knee had definitely stopped effusing that winter because I had a bunch of unused materiel that I didn't feel the need to bring when I moved to Florida in early January. So it looks like it took the right knee about five months to heal up. It's been just over a month with the left knee, but the effusion wasn't nearly as big and none of the ligaments were damaged at the start. I hope to get through this in under two months.

10 am: ~18 cc. Eight from a very painful medial entry and the rest from the usual lateral entry. Knee feels wonderful right now and I can actually jump a little bit. My quad insertions are still hurting a bit when I jump, but I can squat down and get up with minimal knee discomfort. In a few more days I may be able to squat with weight again.

10 pm: 15 cc on the dot. Pretty clear. This was a "just in case" draining. Knee feels incredible. Still achingly tired around the quad insertions. Dreaming of squatting a PR on Sunday or Monday, not having any refill, and saving up for the Metal squat shoes.

Friday, June 18, 2010

9 am: 13 cc this morning, clear fluid. Knee feels good, but I still can't do a knees-forward Hindu type squat without considerable discomfort.

8 pm: 13 cc again, very clear. This is after a very low volume squat session with singles up to about 80% (which felt like a max today).

Gary Gibson

06-18-2010, 07:59 PM

@180
SQ 315
BP 260
DL 405

Wow. Barely stood up with 315 with just knee sleeves. Left knee was feeling stressed so I put the wraps on along with the belt and walked out 365. Knew I wasn't going to get it so I put it right back down.

New bench max 260, but it was sloooooooooooow. I stopped two times on the way up.

Warmed up with 315 on the conventional pull and it felt good. Went to 405 with the expectation that I'd close in on 500 even if my squat was off. Barely got 405. This is a bit crazy since I'd hit a max of 495 about a month ago.

So lots of failure today. Lots of regression. I'm down about 20% on my squat and pull and up only 5% on my bench. I can jump a little bit, but my quads are still in pain around the insertions when I try.

The good news is that the squats--as miserable as they were--didn't seem to elicit much effusion. I just drew 13 cc almost exactly from my knee and at that's about the norm for this time of day.

A couple more weeks of rest from squats and pulls, but I will probably push the bench, weighted chin up and press pretty hard in that time. When I go back to squatting it will be with very light weights and low volume as I build back up. Gonna keep the volume and frequency low (for me) and work on upping the weight.

Oh, and I'm going back to GOMAD when I start squatting and pulling again. In the meantime I'm going to half GOMAD while just working bench, chin and press. I want to be 190 again in a couple of weeks and over 200 by the end of July. It was nice to see my abzors again for a little while, but it will be a long time before I try to make weight for a meet again.

Speaking of meets, I am nowhere near close to competition condition. A 20% drop in the two big lifts means I'd be wasting the entry fee and gas money.

FAT BRETT

06-18-2010, 09:32 PM

sorry to hear things didnt go as well as you like, whats the training template look like for the next phase.

Gary Gibson

06-19-2010, 11:54 AM

sorry to hear things didnt go as well as you like, whats the training template look like for the next phase.

Yeah, I've never experienced such a radical strength drop. That is evidence of some truly poor planning. Bench went up, however, and that's rare. It's officially a 15-lb increase, but not really. 245 to 260, but my 245 1RM wasn't a true 1RM and I could do it multiple singles with it. That 260 was a true grinder. So my old 1RM was probably 250 and my new clean (bar keeps moving) 1RM is probably 255. Still, that tiny jump is the absolute bright spot against the pitch black of a 20%+ drop in my max squat and deadlift.

I thought I'd train the hell out of the bench, press and chin up for a couple weeks while I stayed away from squatting and pulling. Basic linear progression alternating Bench/Pull up Day with Press/Weighted Chin up Day on nonconsecutive days, three times per week. Then on to twice per week bench training at which time I'd also start squatting and pulling once per week again with a heavy squat day on Monday and a light SQ/medium DL day on Friday.

To allow myself to adapt to the squat again, I was thinking of squatting "naked", no belt or sleeves, with very light weight and just making smaller and smaller jumps over the weeks. 225-245-265-275-285-295-300-305-310-315. That's about two months to go from 225x5x3 to 315x5x3 at which point I'd like to reintroduce the belt and sleeves.

Notice that all immediate meet plans are off the table.

Drained 30 cc of clear fluid late last night! 18 as I type this afternoon. The trend has reversed for now.

Gary Gibson

06-20-2010, 08:05 AM

Drew around 20 cc yesterday morning and night, but I'd been fairly active that day moving heavy boxes. This morning I only got 5 cc despite my best (and painful) efforts.

Logging because I am amazed at how easily I can squat down again. I've been bending at the hips a lot lately, but this morning I was able to squat to get something out of the bottom cupboard. No pain in the knees.

Still can't jump very high, but the pain just above the knees isn't quite as bad as usual when I try.

Mr.City

06-20-2010, 09:46 AM

Nice job with the bench PR.

Jethro

06-20-2010, 03:08 PM

Gary Gibson

06-20-2010, 05:13 PM

Hi Gary,

I'd looked over your logs several times over the past year or so, and I was always amazed at how many workouts you got in before taking deloads.

...and lately a few setbacks.

Clearly more advanced now, do you take a week off to deload every 3-4 weeks or so (12-15 workouts max)? Or do you use another system of rest? The reason I ask now is because you appear to be questioning overtraining.

I've been taking it easy every fourth week or so, but I think I've been abusing volume too much in each cycle. I clearly need to dial it back a notch. I'm far from strong, but I'm clearly not able to put over a hundred pounds on my squat each year anymore.

Also, I must stop trying to make weight and just let myself keep growing. I'd said I would, but I just got obsessed with lifting a lot more weight in the lower weight class and with getting abzors for the beach.

Don't worry, however, for I just bought several pounds of various forms of beef and several gallons of milk. I'm chugging one of those gallons as I type this. Which brings me to today's session...

BP 220 x5 x3
PU @180 x5 x3

220 didn't feel quite as easy as I would have liked on the bench. I used the neoprene shirt for the first couple of sets and took the shirt off for the last. Last set was easier than second, maybe even easier than the first. Groove was not there and extension was legal but uneven at times. I'm doing the next two weeks without squats or pulls and going Su-Tu-Th-Sa-M-W-F. Press and weighted chin tomorrow, alternating with bench/pull up. Three bench sessions left before I start squatting lightly and going to official intermediate programming ala TM or some such. I'm thinking I should jump 5, then 2.5 and 2.5 to finish at 230 x5 x3. Really curious as to how well GOMAD works when there is no squatting.

Gary Gibson

06-22-2010, 03:09 PM

@184
Press 119 x5, x5, x4
Chin Up +45 x5, x4, x3

Not quite as strong on press and chin as I remember being.

First reps of presses were murder. Used touch and go thereafter w/ stretch reflex. I was going to use 119 (using the 38-lb bar) as a warm up, but realized I'd be lucky to complete sets across with that weight. Didn't quite make it anyway. Dropping down 5 lbs for next session.

Chins were feeling pretty good, but completely died each succeeding set with one less rep. Drop these 10 lbs for next session.

Body weight's back up and I'm looking pretty swole (for me) with all the glycogen and water from the milk. Drinking at a rate of three gallons over four days or so. Not a full gallon per day because I'm just not going to grow that fast anymore and I'm not squatting.

Knee has been calming down. Did lunges yesterday and didn't feel particularly effused in the left knee. Drew 21 cc last night, but haven't drained yet today because there just really doesn't seem to be any need.

Still can't jump very well and am wondering if I'll need a full three weeks off.

Gary Gibson

06-24-2010, 06:16 PM

@184
BP 225 x5 x3
TBR 90 x8 x3
WD +45 x5, +55 x5 x2

Knees are getting better. Did walking lunges yesterday. Wobbly on first few, but quickly got bearings. Was able to do a pistol with the right knee barefoot and actually several at a time quite easily in my WL shoe. Left knee in a lot of pain below v. lateralis. Better today when I tried it, but still cannot descend more than halfway with left leg.

Benches were amazing today (for me). Sam spotted me and thought I was amazingly slow, but I'm very happy with the speed of these at 87% 1RM of 260. They didn't even feel hard on the last set. Definitely going up another 5 lbs next week before.

Introduced more assistance. Acting like a real intermediate now. Went up to three wheels on the T-Bar Row, but everybody laughed at my shitty form getting just two reps. I lowered it at Sam's insistence and did three sets of eight with very good form.

Finished up with a couple work sets of dips. Warmed up with bodyweight only, then +25. +45 felt a lot easier than I thought it would so I counted that as a semi-warm up and went to +55. Good stretch for the shoulders, but I believe just once per week and not every cycle is a good idea for these. I did the math and realized that the last time I did dips, I was an entire big plate (45 lbs) lighter. I believe my best ever on these was three plates (or very nearly three plates, 120-130) while weighing 145 or so.

Addendum:
Ugh. Just drained 20 cc from my knee. I think mowing the lawn earlier aggravated the effusion. Really not that bad, but I have a feeling this will be a problem for the rest of the year.

FAT BRETT

06-25-2010, 06:50 AM

Assistance work? As soon as I leave town major changes take place, sounds good. Adding a little assistance work will probably help, keep the bench pr's coming, and be a good change of pace but please dont start cross fit while im gone though

Gary Gibson

06-25-2010, 09:40 AM

Thanks, buddy. Travel safe. Ignore strangers offering you hard candy, but be kind to strangers offering you chicken or beef.

By the way, Sam's insistence to lower the weight came out as "Jeezus, Gary, lower the fucking weight!" He also gave me hand offs and spotted. I am coming to accept that the hand off is indeed not cheating. But this is a slippery slope. Before you know it I will be squatting in the monolift and be excommunicated from the USAPL.

I will be rotating assistance each cycle. Next time around I'll maybe do incline bench and dumbbells instead of weighted dips. One day when I'm all grown up and using a shirt in competition I may do floor or board presses, too.

I may even start doing assistance or substitutions for the squat! Good mornings, front squats, box squats w/bands, glute-ham raises. Unilateral work, too! But first I want to make my way through novice and intermediate progression so I reintroduce my knees to heavier loads gradually. I really don't think I could just jump back into squatting 300+ right now. Even 200+ feels like it would be a bad idea.

Phil Stevens

06-25-2010, 01:32 PM

Nice work on the benching Gary. Got to love those days when progress becomes very apparent.

Gary Gibson

06-26-2010, 10:44 PM

@183
DE BP 135 x2 x4
OHP 110 x5, 115 x5, 120 x5 x3
WCU +35 x5 x3

Warmed up by trying to move the bar quickly on the bench. 135 is a little over 50%. I moved it much more quickly than my normal work sets ~80%, but not quite as quickly as I would have liked. I can't wait till I'm strong enough to make 135 move as quickly as the empty bar.

Looks like I just need to get used to the press. Much stronger on it this time. I tried 110, but it felt way too light. 115 felt okay, but 120 was beckoning since I almost got it for x5x3 last time. I got it with room to spare and I was especially happy since my last two warm ups were so close to the work sets. It was essentially the ramping up version of 5x5.

Surprised at how hard weighted chins were with just 35 lbs. It felt hard from the first work set. Had hands a little too close together and moved them out an inch for the next couple of sets. Looks like the jumps on these may be smaller than I initially planned, like just 2.5 each time.

Draining almost 20 cc from the left knee at least once per day and sometimes twice. Feeling better overall as the days go by. Looks like I just needed a decent rest. I'm going to call this rest "July." That is to say, I'm completely comfortable with not doing any sort of squat or pull for another month if needed. I just want to get my mobility back at this point and be able to squat in complete health. Right now I think I'm somewhere between overtrained and injured. Both take time to remedy. Six weeks or so seems reasonable right now. (Although I just tried to jump and discovered that the pain in both quad insertions is gone. I don't have my explosiveness back yet, but the lack of pain is a Good Thing.)

I was thinking about including hip/knee work that didn't load the knee like squats during my rest from the actual squat: good morning variations (like seated with legs stretch out), glute-ham raises, reverse hypers, or even single leg extensions. Hey, I'm injured. It's okay.

If, however, I'm feeling good by the end of this next week of rest, I'll start on my comeback plan then instead of waiting another month. Although, I have to travel on business in the latter part of July and may just as well wait till that's out of the way.

My comeback plan is looking pretty sweet.

One week of breaking back into it: M 45 x20, W 95 x20, F 135 x20. Seems unnecessarily cautious, but I fucked myself up pretty bad and am trying to exercise a little wisdom and caution.

Four weeks of novice progression with big 20-lb jumps, then just 10-lb jumps after adding the belt: M 185, W 205, F 225, M 245, W 265, F 285 add belt M 315, W 325, F 335, M 345, W 355, F 365.

Then four weeks of intermediate progression: Mondays 375, 385, etc. 10-lb and 5-lb jumps when needed till I'm getting my old max ~415 for x5x3. PR Fridays with fives and ramping up to a big single over 4-6 weeks. I would like this big single to be 475.

Putting over 50 lbs on my squat max in two months is going to require putting about 20 lbs on my body. So I'll be doing the daily gallon of whole milk again. I'll tell you what, though. Extra calories do not do nearly as much good when you're not squatting. I'm only doing 1/2-3/4 gallon right now as I bench, press and chin my little heart out, and the body weight is just not coming.

I'd love to finish the year @200 w/ 500/300+/600.

Gary Gibson

06-28-2010, 07:30 PM

@182
BP 230 x5 x3
Pull Up x6 x3
Dip +65 x5 x2

Nice work on the benching Gary. Got to love those days when progress becomes very apparent.

Thanks, Phil. It was another one of those days. Today's BP was another PR for me. It's getting a little tough and I'm not sure there's any point to even attempting another 5-lb jump so close to the meet. I have three bench sessions left (and two light/fast bench sets before the two remaining press sessions) and getting to 240 x5 x3 would be fine as a last workout. That would put my touch-and-go bench at ~280 +/-5 lbs for a paused competition bench of 270 +/- 5 lbs. That would be a huge improvement over my last competition best of 231. Sadly, however, I got that 231 at 165 and at 179 in comp. So even a huge jump really is just the results I should have gotten months ago and I should be a lot stronger at this weight right now.

My pathetic little goal is to bench 1.5x bodyweight in comp and to do so with two big red calibrated weights on each side (125 kg or 275 lbs+). If I'd have been smarter, I would have been getting 440/308/533. I should have taken it easy on squat for a small gain and focused on the bench. I also should not have quit my job with the phone company back in '08 to pursue this publishing gig.

Pull ups were uneventful, but dips felt way better than they did last time. Got a nice stretch at the bottom of each rep, but I don't think I'm overdoing it at all. Still think limiting volume and not doing these every single cycle is a very Good Idea.

Only weighed 182 in me skivvies, which was a bit of a surprise. I haven't been gorging myself because there's really no point when squats aren't part of the equation. But I've been eating well and getting at least a half gallon of milk per day. The home scale has had me at 184-187 consistently and I'm guessing that old, broken thing (had it when I was a kid in Brooklyn over 25 years ago) is off a few pounds.

I'm still avoiding squats and pulls, but next week I'm going to have to squat and pull something just to see what I'm comfortable with before the meet. I also need to get some semblance of form back. I'm thinking one session to test the waters next Sunday and then a form/speed session on Thursday. Yeah, that's awfully close to the meet to be squatting, but it's not like I'm looking to put in a max effort on meet day.

Gary Gibson

06-30-2010, 08:29 PM

@182
BP 235 x5, x5, x4
DL 465 x1

I suppose I should be happy. New PR with the bench, even if I missed that last rep. All the other reps were plenty strong, second set way better than the first.

I was going to do speed night tonight and then my presses and chins...but then I decided to just squeeze some more heavy work in and do my last night as a deload/speed before the meet.

Speaking of the meet: I'm beginning to think I should have done this as a bench only. Decided not to squat till the meet, but I wanted to pull, just to see how it felt. It felt horrible 465 nearly killed me. That's 40 lbs below my old best. I've not just wasted the last four months; I've actively undone my progress.

Tried on Daniel's Metal shoes. They felt good, but I'm not at all sure they felt $160 worth of good. They felt about as good as those sleek Pumas I tried on at the shoe store a few days back. My actual heeled squat shoes still feel better. I'm thinking of taking them in to a cobbler to get the heel reduced to 1/4 or 1/2 inch.

Gonna go cry softly to myself about those pulls now.

Edit: Dammit dammit dammit. I know I already publicly lamented over this, but if I'd just been a little smarter, I could have come in with a much higher bench and slightly better squat and deadlift. I could have gotten another 20 lbs on this bench, maybe even have hit 140/308 if I'd have trained it harder with linear progression after the last meet. I could have coasted to a 200/440 squat and 235/517 deadlift if I had backed off these lifts and concentrated on the bench. I could have finished up my time as a 181 with a total in the mid-1200s instead of 1151. Dammit.

K.Diesel

06-30-2010, 11:16 PM

Gary Gibson

06-30-2010, 11:25 PM

Gary, I must have missed something somewhere in your log. You were planning to do Raw Nationals, then scrapped the idea due to the squat/pull problems. Now I see imminent meet plans again. Which meet are you doing, when, and where?

I mostly scrapped those plans because I didn't feel like paying for travel and hotel only to get my ass handed to me. I'm going instead to the USAPL U.S. Open right here in Florida on July 11. I've been planning this for a while. I was gonna pull out when I wrecked my squat and pull, but my bench has been doing so well that I decided I wanted to register an official attempt in a 3-lift meet while I'm still in the 181s. I'm going to attempt 120 and 125 kg raw at 181 lbs, just to say that I did a competition bench with 1.5x bodyweight. I wanted very much to squat 2.5x bodyweight and pull 3x bodyweight, but that's going to have to wait a few months while I build my squat and pull back up.

I may also end up just going to the Dec 12 Florida Sunshine Games instead of the Dec 3-5 American Open. Again, cost is a major factor. I don't even know if I'll be employed come December. Even if I'm not, I could afford the drive to Fort Myers for the day.

Looks like it may be safe for you in the 90 kg at the American Open :D

Gary Gibson

07-02-2010, 01:34 PM

@180?
BP 240 x5 (2 w/ spotter's hand touching bar, so...)
SQ (45, 95, 135, 185, 225) 255 x5 x3
DL 415 x5 conventional

Brian spotted me so I certainly wasn't going to jump up and complain about his hands touching the bar because he's capable of breaking me into two neat pieces without much effort. I'm sure that he didn't give me any help on the fourth, but not as sure about the fifth. Either way, this isn't part of the progression so much as seeing how strong I am now. 240 for a triple means I'm good for 265x1. Five would wean 270x1. Nothing to cry about. I was hoping that I'd be good for 285 touch and go come meet time so I could get 275 paused in competition, but that's not going to happen. Looking at 120 kg max at the meet right now.

Took my sweet time warming up on squats because this was my first session in weeks. Did the first set without a belt then quickly thought better of it. A little depressed at how tough these felt and as of right now I'm a little worried at my ability to get back up to 315 for sets and reps by the end of next week and then getting in the high 300s in competition.

Deadlifts went so well, though. Still 30 lbs off my best 5RM, but that's still a helluva lot better than the 100+ lbs I've lost on my squats. Hook grip for first two reps, then mixed grip for the last three. The last one was an all out effort, but I was confident that I'd get it. I was also very tired because I'd just done the squats. I think I could do a little bit better if I weren't so tired. In fact, I nearly loaded 405 instead, but I decided just to slap another pair of 25's on instead of getting the deadlift fork to add more 45s. Aiming for 435x5 for next Wednesday on my last pull session before the meet. Would like to get 500 conventional at the meet, but I think that that's going to be just a little beyond my reach, but we'll see.

Gary Gibson

07-03-2010, 10:42 AM

Drained ~20 cc from the knee this morning. These days the effusion isn't getting to the point where the supra-lateral region is getting all full. The stuff I'm draining is very hard to get and comes from deep down in the knee.

Feeling bummed out. I can't jump again and my knees just feel so tired. And those sets with 255 yesterday were way harder than they should have been. I think it's the max set of five on the deadlift that has really messed me up, however. I think I'm going to have to stop training squats for another few weeks, take those token attempts at the meet and then work back up from 135 over several months. I hope to hit new highs in September and then again in December.

The plan was to go quickly through a novice and advanced novice progression with some comically light weights but 20-lb jumps. I may reduce that to 10 lbs.

Also I'm dropping weight pretty consistently even though I'm drinking at least a half gallon of milk each day and eating sloppy. I think it's a combination of eating less frequently and not squatting. I weighed just under 182 on the medical scale yesterday and the home scale says I'm 181 this morning which means more like 178.

K.Diesel

07-04-2010, 03:12 PM

Looks like it may be safe for you in the 90 kg at the American Open :D

HAHAHAHAHA! I was looking forward to a head-to-head match up. Perhaps we can plan on Raw Nationals 2011? Heard it will be in Scranton, PA. That's if I'm not in the 220's by then. Hell, you might be in 220s by then yourself.

Gary Gibson

07-04-2010, 09:22 PM

@181
SQ (45x10, 95x8, 135x5, 185x5, 225x3, 245x2, belt/sleeves 255) 275x5 x3
Quad stretching

Much, much better.

Looks like my inability to jump was just due to plain old DOMS because I hadn't squatted in a couple of weeks. Also that max set of five on the pull didn't help. I made it a point to keep stretching out my quads yesterday and today I felt really good. I could jump and my knees felt a lot more stable; not as much pain in the bottom position. I believe the stretching is key. I really lost a lot of ROM because of the effusion in both knees (the right was a lot worse, of course). I didn't realize how tight I'd gotten!

I included the warm ups in today's account because I think I need to pay more attention to them. I rode the stationary bike for three minutes today to get my body temperature up and felt much more ready for squatting because of it. I've been ramping up more carefully lately, too.

Form was very good up through the first work set. I kept the hip angle opening up at a good rate with no hip shooting till the last couple of reps on the last couple of sets. The hip shooting never got bad, however. And the weight simply felt light compared to how 255 felt last time. I slowed the reps down a bit on the eccentric so I didn't end up bouncing off my knees at the bottom. These were very much "low bar Olympic" and I might have gone a little too deep on some of the early reps, not staying as tight as I should have at the very bottom.

Finished up with a couple reps high bar with 225 and those felt awful. Weight got me onto the balls of my feet (I was flat foot in my deadlift slippers as my squat shoes are at the cobbler getting lowered a smidgen). Did an easy rep with 135, but couldn't help but feel that high bar was a step in the direction of overhead squats: Harder in their way, but doesn't mean better for strength.

After that I tried to start some speed benches, but my hip flexors were cramping so I never got past the empty bar. Instead wrapped everything up with single quad stretches by sitting on my ankles with one leg on the bench at a time. Then I did it with both legs.

HAHAHAHAHA! I was looking forward to a head-to-head match up. Perhaps we can plan on Raw Nationals 2011? Heard it will be in Scranton, PA. That's if I'm not in the 220's by then. Hell, you might be in 220s by then yourself.

220's in 2011 is indeed the plan. Next couple meets this year will be in the 198 for sure. I am exactly 181.5 right now consistently. I'm sure I'll get at least 20 lbs better than my last bench in this weight class, and I'm now cautiously hopeful about the deadlift and maybe even eking out another 2.5 kilos in the squat. Very cautiously hopeful.

We may go head-to-head yet at the American Open. Just don't want to say it's a definite thing yet.

Gary Gibson

07-05-2010, 11:03 AM

Stretched a lot more last night and woke up feeling pretty stiff and swollen in the knees. Decided what I needed was to get moving. It's been so long since I felt nimble, like I could run and jump. So I went into the backyard and did some bounding, long jumping and vertical jumping.

Started with a footstool to warm up and get up my confidence. Then I did a few jumps over a standing garbage can. Then I did some standing long jumps and worked up to just over 7'. I was sweating really good by then and my knees were feeling better. I then got some chalk and measured my vertical against the telephone pole outside. Sadly, my vertical is only 22' right now with a maximum touch point of 9'8", but part of me is just happy to be jumping at all these days.

I tried to finish up with pushing a car, but it turns out pushing cars on dirt and grass driveways is a whole other story from pushing them on paved roads. I got the car going one way for a few feet than stopped and seriously considered buying a sled.

PVC

07-05-2010, 04:26 PM

Sadly, my vertical is only 22' right now with a maximum touch point of 9'8", but part of me is just happy to be jumping at all these days.

It's a lot better than 4".

Gary Gibson

07-06-2010, 04:20 PM

It's a lot better than 4".

Too right.

@180?
SQ (45x6, 135x5, 185x5, 225x?, knee sleeves 275x2, belt 315x2) 335x5 x2

Haven't been eating much at all, but I'm feeling better each day.

The fatigue is dissipating and I read an article from Kelly Baggett (just go ahead and Google him and read every damn thing he's written) that explains what's been going on with me...

It seems I've made my body adapt to doing lots of volume with fairly heavy weights rather slowly. If this is followed with appropriate tapering and rest, then the the type IIa fibers made bigger by this process convert to type IIb and strength can then be expressed as explosiveness if explosiveness is then practiced. Or something like that. I need to read through all that stuff a few more times. The salient point is that I am clearly healing up and getting faster.

I've been mega-dosing the Ibuprofen lately as well as using the topical stuff on my left knee in between power icing (Google it). It's worked. This morning I woke up without pain in either knee and feeling fluid as well as full of pop. My vertical is almost as good as it's ever been. I've been bouncing around all day and getting my nose within three inches of the 8' foot ceiling in the house from a standing jump (I'm 5'10" in the morning).

Today my warm up weights moved incredibly fast. The three weeks off have clearly made me more able to move weight quickly even as fatigue has dissipated. My last un-belted warm up with 275 moved fast enough to make the bar pop off my shoulders a bit. I slowed down a bit with 315 and my 335 were kind of grinding, particularly in the second half of the set. Still, I am amazed at how quickly I'm moving all of a sudden. The volume I'd been over-using eliminated my pop, but this break has really brought it back for the reasons Kelly explained.

I'd gotten my shoes back from the cobbler. The heels were 1/2", but the sole was far from flat. So I spent the afternoon bending the toes back so that the shoes are flat from the ball back toward the heel with the toes sticking up in the air. Now the shoes are perfect. Slight heel, but with toes angled up to help keep the weight back on the heel. This is the same way the Rogues for SS are designed and it's probably the best design there is. Too bad those Rogues are so damned ugly. I still may end up getting a pair, however.

To my great shame, I got quite bent over on those last reps with the work weight. From the fourth in the first set and from the third in the second set. From now on I will not count reps that I get with such altered form. I know when the bending over gets to be too much and I need to start terminating the sets at the first questionable rep. Today I should have done 3x3 instead of going for a 2x5. This is, after all a taper. I'm supposed to be dropping volume and getting used to heavier weight without burning myself out. I could have kept much better form with a couple or three triples with 335 instead of pushing the envelope for non-reps in sets of five.

This is cutting it close, but on Thursday I want to get a couple of doubles with 375. I was going to go up to just a set of five with 365 or 375, but staying away from failure and keeping the bar moving faster and with good form with doubles is much smarter.

I'm just thrilled that I actually don't have to take token attempts in the squat. There is even a small chance that I will exceed my last meet PR on the squat! I will definitely do much better in the bench so there's a chance I will post a new higher total as a 181. Joy!

Gary Gibson

07-12-2010, 10:50 PM

Meet Report

Got all nine lifts. Bests: SQ 180/396, BP 115/253, DL 225/495

I am amazed that I got within 10 kilos of my last squat and 5 kilos of my last meet pull. I'm also still very disappointed with myself for training myself to injury and not handily exceeding my last performance.

Bench went up by 10 kilos, but it's still so far away from 300 that I can't take much comfort here either.

I don't want to fuck up my training again, obviously. Thinking of what I should do different. Giving a lot of thought to daily benching/squatting along the increasingly popular Bulgarian model. Mike blowdpanis sent me Matt Perryman's white paper on daily training in this manner and I have to admit that it's very, very tempting.

I'd have to alter my squat practices. No belt and the sort of weights that allow for faster, springy reps. Still heavy, but not the sort of thing that requires grinding and possible loss of form. I'm thinking of making my squat training more like that of a weightlifter, moving the bar fast and not burning myself out on trying to grind through to constant new personal bests.

Weightlifters manage to get their raw squats pretty fucking big and move them pretty fucking fast so they must be doing something right. Yeah, there's genetic endowment of explosiveness, but you also get what you practice for. I lost a lot of pop and mobility with my constant grinding with belted squats, losing form and back angle halfway through most of my sets. I'd like to perform crisp, fairly fast squats without losing the back angle and which actually train me for powerful leg movements instead of merely strong ones.

"But, Gary, perhaps you are just being an overthinking pussy. Can't you go heavy one day and then go lighter and faster on another?"

Yes, I suppose I could. Part of me wants to do the normal intermediate programming of two or three days per week with varying intensities. Part of me want to party like a Bulgarian weightlifter for PL and bench/squat/chin with moderate intensity and daily frequency.

blowdpanis

07-12-2010, 10:54 PM

Remember Gary, whatever you do, we love and support you <3

Gary Gibson

07-13-2010, 01:51 PM

Remember Gary, whatever you do, we love and support you <3

Awr shucks! Thanks, Mike.

I decided to go with the intermediate progression I had in mind. Nothing's broke yet, so I'm not going to try to fix anything. Bench was progressing fine that way before the meet. Speaking of the meet, I'm just using it as a test day and getting right back into the swing of things.

BP 227.5 x5 x3
SQ 315 x5 x3
Dip +65 x5, +70 x5

I benched 225 for a couple as my last warm up to see if I was ready to go much beyond that for the work sets. I didn't feel I was. Had my new 1.25 plates in my back and threw them on just so I could say I went over 225. The last set was the easiest.

Squats were a mystery. Took long warm ups w/ 135, 185, 225, 275 and one at 295 all without the belt. The 295 felt so smooth that I was confident that 315 would be a cinch. Not quite the case. First set was good enough, but I knew I'd be struggling by the end. Kept the bar moving fast even on the hard reps, however, and never lost the back angle enough to be upset about it. I was trying so hard to move quickly that I just got to parallel on a rep here and there instead of breaking parallel convincingly. The very last rep was a real grinder and I lost all upper back tightness and relaxed my grip on the bar as I concentrated on pushing my traps through the bar so my hips wouldn't shoot up.

Did back offs for speed with 225 (not that fast), 135 (much faster) and the bar (faster still).

Squats had to be done in the monolift today and that threw me off a bit. I walked all the squats back anyway because it's my habit.

Finished up with those dips. My last warm up was with 45 and felt really light. 65 felt easy, too, but the last set with 70 was challenging on that last rep.

Felt a little pain in my left hip near the top of my illiac crest on the drive home, but it went away as I picked up some milk at the grocery. Did some light stretching when I got home for my quads and hams. Tomorrow I'll do some hops and some mobility stuff.

The plan for squats is to do a max set at the end of the week and work from fives up to a single as the weeks go by. I'm shooting for a max single with 425 off of which I'll base an RSR to peak for Sep 25. The goal is to hit at least 200 kilos in the SQ at 181 and pull 240 kg. Would also be nice to bench another 10 or 15 kilos.

FAT BRETT

07-13-2010, 06:51 PM

Gary Gibson

07-13-2010, 08:09 PM

U go back to bodymore yet or are you still in town? Also congrats on the meet I know the squat and pull didnt go the way you wanted and you would have liked to bench more, but at least you made some decent progress from your last meet. If you focus on staying healthy (As healthy as you can while lifting competitivley) and don't try and force your gains I'm confidant everything will start moving again your bench is proof of that.

Vancouver next week, then Baltimore for at least a couple of weeks next month, but I really don't plan to stay. May head back to Orlando, may not. You managing to keep your weight up?

Jo showed up as I got to my work sets. There was another guy in the PL area and we both happened to have been barefoot, which did not seem to sit well with Jo at all. (I kick my flip flops off when I bench.) Jo was even less happy to see my new 1.25 pounders on the ends of the bar. Keep in mind he's the one who painted the 2.5's pink and does not look kindly upon microloading.

Gary Gibson

07-15-2010, 12:00 PM

@183
BP 235 x5, x4, 230 x4
SQ 245 x3 x2

Today made me feel like quitting. My best just before the meet was 235 x5, x5, x4. Today I got buried on the last rep of the second set. Lowered the weight a bit, but of course I still couldn't get five reps. Had to do the Sit Up Of Shame on the second set. Of course, this is all my own fault. This is a 7.5-lb jump from two days ago and I hadn't eaten anything all morning. What did I really expect? Back down to 230 for Friday and continue.

I was so out of gas after that that I just did some light "speed" squats that felt awful and which weren't particularly speedy. I still think a medium/repetition day followed by a light/speed day and a heavy/low volume day is a good idea for squats right now. It may be a good idea for bench too. Will see how I feel on Saturday.

I was supposed to weighted chins today, but I was really out of gas. Next time I'll eat something first.

poopmonkey

07-18-2010, 06:25 PM

"Sit Up of Shame."

That's an absolutely perfect description. Love it.

Gary Gibson

07-25-2010, 10:51 PM

"Sit Up of Shame."

That's an absolutely perfect description. Love it.

Hee hee. Thanks.

I've been in Vancouver all week and took the opportunity to rest. My knees are feeling better than ever and I can jump and run again. Turns out I had quadriceps tendonitis, which is exactly the sort of thing one can expect after squatting multiple times per week with ~80% 1RM for many sets for months on end.

Now I'm back in the gym, but I am very leery of squats and of doing too much volume. So I decided to focus on pulling for a cycle or two. I will pull heavy one day and then maybe BOX SQUAT light another. Why the box squat? Because it takes the stress off the knees at the bottom of the squat. No matter how you slice it, hips and knees take a bit of a beating when you bounce out the bottom of a squat. Correct programming keeps the connective tissue from accumulating damage faster than it can be repaired, but right now I'm just not sure my knees can handle squatting stress at all. So the pull's the thing for now.

I'm combining some different ideas right now, mostly from Prilepin and Sheiko. I'm concerned about maintaining good bar speed and form. I would like to concentrate more on actual power instead of grinding out reps with deteriorating form. To this end, I'm dialing back belt use on squats for a while and also dialing back the weights so I maintain back angle even on the last reps. The belt allows for those grinding reps with hip shooting. Also, I'm going to be keeping the reps a little lower on squats and making it up by doing a couple more sets. Form maintenance and power/strength-speed is the new focus there.

I like the idea of squatting twice per week, deadlifting once and benching thrice. But for right now, I'm not squatting at all. If I do squat, it will be onto a box so as to save my knees till they feel even more solid. The benching will probably follow a medium/volume, heavy/intensity, light/speed/active recovery format. Today I did benches with ~70% for 5x5 with some heavier attempts to see where my strength is (hint: 225 and 235 were too heavy for work sets today). Normally I would have followed that up with squats around the same percentage and volume, but today I just dicked around with t-bar and db rows (both of which I am discovering that I hate) and then did weighted dips and bodyweight pull ups.

@182
BP 135x5, 155x3, 175x3, 188x5, 225x1, 235x1, 188x5 x4
Dip +45x5, +75x5, +80x5
Pull Ups x5, x5

Really did notice bar speed staying high until I reached the prescribed limits (30 total reps at this weight). Also noticed that my right side seemed to give out entirely on the "heavy" reps. Some weird neurological thing going on there. Also noticed a slightly different feel on each side during heavy dips. Will see if this gets sorted out with practice.

Wednesday I will bench in the 80-89% range with the appropriate volume and then sumo pull 75 or 80% for sets of doubles. Maybe some isolation upper body work like flies, extensions and curls. Friday it's back down to 60-69% with speed and some supplemental overhead pressing and fairly heavy chinning. If I were squatting right now, I'd do light squats on Friday: after pressing, but before chinning.

To be exact: bench week I) 70-80-60, week II) 76-86-66, week III) 79-89-69. A moderate jump for each day, then half that in week III. Dip +90 next time, then +95. Just add sets for pull ups. Not sure which way to go for weighted chin ups.

The idea right now is to use the three weeks I have left in Orlando to get my bench moving and to let my knees finish healing. The break from squats is also a good time to get in some focus on the deadlift.

blowdpanis

07-26-2010, 05:54 AM

Hey Gary, just wanted to let you know that I got your e-mails, I'm just a bit late in giving you replies. They will be coming :)

Gary Gibson

07-27-2010, 02:45 PM

Hey Gary, just wanted to let you know that I got your e-mails, I'm just a bit late in giving you replies. They will be coming :)

Thanks, Mike. So much to discuss. Like Brett said, a lot of it comes from the fact that linear progression is no longer an option (and accepting that some guys start with 315 SQ and progress linearly to 585 SQ and I am none of those guys).

@180
BP
135 x5
185 x3
205 x1
215 x3, x2

(Added one-board.)
225 x3
245 x3 (Third rep slowed.)
235 x2

(No board.)
215 x2

DL (sumo, hook grip, no belt)
315 x3
355 x2 (felt lighter, moved faster)
405 x2 x5

BP Assist

On the advice of PL54 Jack Reape and in imitation of super-bencher "Fat" Brett, I added a board to a few of the heavy sets. Felt good, but I'm a little sad that my "heavy board work" is pretty near what my top sets were a few weeks ago. I'd stalled a couple of times with 230x5x2; today my heavy work before the boards was 215 for a triple and a double. Of course, this type of weakness is supposed to happen after a peak and it's normal for the first week back.

As I've mentioned, I'm paying a great deal of attention to bar speed these days. When bar speed slows down, I start backing off. I was hoping to get a triple with that 245 1-board and I did, but the third rep was half the speed of the second. So I backed down by 10 lbs and one rep for the last set on the board. One more set with just 215 to get a tiny bit more volume. Total volume in the 80-89% range: 15 reps. Optimal according to Prilepin. The board complicates things a bit, but I'm sure that the weights I used were still 80%-89% of my "board 1RM". 245 is actually about 92% of my board-less 1RM and that's close enough for government work.

DLs were the rare pleasant surprise in the gym. I worked in with someone as they hit 315. I've never gotten any benefit from warming up really light in the deadlift, though I acknowledge that this may change as I get older and stronger. This was the first time I'd pulled since the meet two weeks ago and I was a little slow with the 315 and worried that my plan to stay at 405 was misguided. But 355 felt lighter and moved faster than 315 had. I put on the belt for 405, but then decided to see how 405 felt without it. Felt great. Kept the belt off for all five sets of doubles.

Now I have much less worries about the deadlift altering my pull form than I do the belt altering my squat form. The belt aids the squat more and the tendency to go too heavy and sacrifice form getting prescribed reps is great. Less so with the deadlift where the difference between a max with and without a belt is less than 20 lbs. The belt can make a huge difference as the volume mounts and back extensor fatigue sets in, and I will use it without hesitation when I go for those last sets on x4x5 day.

Very last set started with a slower rep, but the second was fast and strong. Jo said I wasn't bringing my hips low enough, but I will always maintain that that's a function of my daddy long legs anthropometry. My sumo may have my hips high, but it very much a leg movement for me that I don't feel in my back at all.

Finished up with some "scapular shrugs" on the seated, supported row machine, though I did them while holding the wrong handles, supersetted with hammer curls dragged across the body (40-lb db's x6 x3). Biceps were feeling a little achy after bench presses (remember, they assist in humeral adduction) and I figured a little direct work would count as bench prehab and assistance.

Sumos did not aggravate my quadriceps tendons at all, but I felt I got a decent leg workout anyway. Very encouraging and makes me confident in using the sumo to keep some stress on the legs without having to squat. Plus it's how I pull in competition and a little concentration on them can't hurt.

Next: Light/fast bench, overhead work, heavy chins and lots of light flies for recovery.

Gary Gibson

07-30-2010, 12:15 AM

@182+

BP
135 x4
165 x3, x4, x4, x4
135 x4

Press (overhead)
95 x5
115 x4
125 x3
135 x2, x2
115 x4

Chin Up
+25 x4
+35 x4
+45 x3
+55 x3
+25 x4

Bench: Bar moved slowly on first reps because I didn't realize how important it was to pull the bar down quickly before reversing direction. These were NOT bounced, but that speed on the way down was crucial to getting speed on the way up. Jack wrote about this before and now I really get it.

Press: All sets were preceded by a clean and a 2-second pause. The clean definitely stores tension in the muscles and the weight is easier to move even after a few seconds pausing (It takes a while for tension to dissipate enough for it not to help). I could have done a third rep with the first set with 135, but I was trying to keep bar speed reasonably high. Bar speed slowed on second set so I called it quits at that weight even though I'd wanted to get at least three sets of doubles (This is EXACTLY the kind of discipline I mean to keep enforcing).

Chin Up: +25 moved very quickly and I gingerly increased the intensity much like I did with presses. Slowed on third rep with 55 so dropped the weight back to 25 to get a little more volume.

Did some jumping between sets of chins and was pleased to find I was getting 22-24". Back still hurting a bit from all the hard arching I'm doing on the bench. Refining split thus...

BP: heavy/medium bench press, pull up, weighted dip
SQ: heavy/medium squat

BP: light (fast) bench press, overhead press, weighted chin up
SQ: light (fast) squat, heavy/medium deadlift

Right now I'm not squatting so squats will be replaced with deadlifts: heavy day and a light day.

Gary Gibson

07-31-2010, 09:42 AM

Yesterday...

@182+
Power Snatch 95 x3
Power Clean 135x3, 165x2

Deadlift (conventional, no belt, hook grip)
315 x1
365 x1 x2
315 x1
315 x2 x5

Used the power movements as a warm up but also as a check. So depressed about how much I have not improved on these. I suspect that I'm not ever going to get to get a 315 clean. While I don't have any Olympic aspirations, I'd hoped that one day I'd be strong enough to get a 225 for reps on this movement. But ~185 feels as hard as it ever did.

Warmed up with 315 on the conventional pull with the intention of doing very quick reps with 365. 365 didn't move as quickly as I would have liked so I dropped it to 315 and ended up doing fairly fast sets of doubles with that weight. This is just over 60% of my best 490 conventional with a belt. Hours later lats feeling full and a little achy.

Today...

Drained my left knee for the first time in many weeks just now. I was squatting down like a Chinaman at an outdoor bar last night and this morning my right quad insertion was hurting a little. I also jogged a bit (in flip flops) from the car to the bar because parking was crazy and I ended up a half mile away from the bar. First time I've run at all in months. Drained the knee for the hell of it and the fluid was reddish and thick.

FAT BRETT

07-31-2010, 03:09 PM

Gary Gibson

08-01-2010, 01:16 PM

1st off what bar, and second your mistake was running, nothing good can ever come of this, and dont come back with I wasnt running I was jogging, just cause you did it slower doesnt change what it is.

You must understand: I was incapable of any sort of running for months. It's like I was touched by Jesus. I couldn't help myself.

This whole "knees not working" thing has been a good thing because it forced me to pay attention to my upper body again. I've also discovered the power of heavy partial work (not too "partial"). I want to use both high and parallel boxes for squatting when I get back to it

BP
130 x5
180 x5
200 x4 x2 (~78%)
2-Board 240 x2
2-Board 270 x3, x3 (Last rep really slow)
2-Board 250 x3
200 x3
210 x3

Pull Up x5 x4

Dip
+0 x5
+45 x3
+90 x2 1/2, x1

Used the 38-lb bar today, but rounded it up to 40 because it's easier for me to look at and compare numbers ending in 0 than those ending in 3 and 8. The first set w/ 200 moved like a speed set. The second set was a little slower. Added a 2-board this time and 240 felt easy so I jumped to 270. First set fine, but second set was a real grinder on the last rep. Dropped it to 250 and kept the bar moving quickly. 200 without the board felt much lighter and faster after holding 250-270.

Pull ups were no problem, but really failed on dips. My pressors were more exhausted than I realized. Need to start treating dip as a volume finisher instead of a max effort movement, especially if I'm going to be doing heavier top end work with the boards. I probably would have been better off with prone DB extensions or higher-rep partial dips for triceps hypertrophy today.

Still plenty of energy left at the end of the session. Had to load bags of salt in the trunk and then carry them around back when I got home. No wheelbarrow means I got some GPP. Tomorrow rest, then the next day triples with ~82% on the sumo deadlift. I was just going to add a rep to each set each week, but now I want to add a little weight each time too (2% then another 1% next week).

Edit: It was the Orlando Brewing Company.

Gary Gibson

08-03-2010, 02:08 AM

Just before midnight...

DL (sumo, no belt, hook grip)
315 x3
365 x1
405 x1
425 x2, x3, x3, x3, x3, x3

Warmed up by practicing box squat experimentation. I used the bar for a few from different heights and then 135 just for a rep or two just below parallel. Tried very wide stances and sitting so far back that my knees went behind my ankles. I really doubt now that I'd get much from these in terms of regular squatting, but they will definitely help my sumo pull! They're a sumo pull with the bar on the back.

Deadlifts went very well, but on the first set I forgot that this was triples, not doubles. All reps moved very quickly, but on the fourth set my legs started to quiver a bit. The second rep of the last set I lost my balance a bit and nearly fell backward. Last rep was fast and clean. I'm really amazed at how fast I managed to keep moving. That last set was just so I could say I got five sets of triples. I would have gotten the target volume by doing just a single, but I really wanted five triples.

Some chalk had built up on my quads from where my hands finished just above my knees. This caused friction on the last reps and it took me a while to figure out why. The skin there is a little ripped up on both legs now. Did foam roller on back and it felt great on my lower back. Stretched a bit with a side split and bend-overs. Lots of rest between sets (5-10 minutes) as I gabbed with another lifter and made sure I was recovered for each set. Thumbs felt like they were going to separate from my body after the last couple of sets.

hbriem

08-03-2010, 04:24 AM

Wow! Nice deadlifts, Gary.

FAT BRETT

08-03-2010, 06:39 PM

[QUOTE=Gary Gibson;149193]You must understand: I was incapable of any sort of running for months. It's like I was touched by Jesus. I couldn't help myself.

I used to get touched by Jesus all the time, turned out it was just a very persuasive transient.

Gary Gibson

08-05-2010, 09:36 PM

I used to get touched by Jesus all the time, turned out it was just a very persuasive transient.

That's gonna be somebody's sig somewhere.

BP light
45 x5
135 x5
175 x3 x4

Box Squat to just below parallel
135 x5
225 x5
275 x3
295 x2
Very loose briefs (44)
315 x2 x2
335 x2
365 x1
Reverse bands, light
365 x2
Belt 405 x2
Belt 405 x1 x2
No Belt 405 x1
No Belt 315 x3 back off

Standing Press preceded by one clean
90 x5
110 x4
130 x2
140 x2 x5

Chin Up
+0 x5
+25 x4
+45 x3
+60 x2
+70 x1 x2
+45 x2

I was initially going to put the box squats off till tomorrow, but was really eager to try them out tonight. From now on, put squats on separate days from presses and chins. Chins suffered a bit because I was just tired by the time I got to them.

Nothing special on benches, but I'm very happy that I got to 335 for doubles (maybe a triple or two, don't remember) and at least one set (maybe more, don't remember) without a belt and to a half inch below parallel with a full stop and 1-2 second pause. I THINK I hit 365 without the bands once before adding them (Brett was standing right there and maybe he can confirm this). Knees felt fine during and after. I'm not sure what to make of the reps with 405 because they had the light reverse bands on them, but they felt strong.

The other lifters were giving me shit for looking down (even though it felt stronger) and I looked up for the last couple of singles with 405. I like looking down better, but can't say that among lifters who look at the ceiling as they do very wide monolift squats. They were somewhat mollified by the fact that I was using bands and wearing loose briefs for the heavy sets.

I was a bit surprised that I managed to get so many sets with 135-140 with the presses. I was using the 38-lb bar actually had 138 on there; counting it as 140 with the collars. I actually lost count, but I know it was at least five doubles, maybe six.

Chins suffered. The singles with 70 @~180+ are almost as heavy as that max I did with 100 @165, and they moved much faster and I was a lot more tired. So I'm guessing I'm stronger, but won't know for a fact till I max out when fresh.

FAT BRETT

08-06-2010, 04:19 PM

Gary Gibson

08-06-2010, 05:35 PM

Didn't see the 365 so I can neither confirm nor deny, but the banded sets looked good. You did seem to have an easy time transistioning to box squats, most people tend to take a while to get used to it you took to it like a fish to dihydrogen monoxide. As for the bands don't worry about how it to compare weight wise to squat with straight weight, the only real way to know for sure the impact they will have on your squat is when you start squatting heavy again. At least with the overload at the top you will be much less likely to have a cns freak out when you do start squatting for realz, in the meantime just take it for what it is since you cant really accurately say if I do x with bands then I should be able to do y with straight weight, if you are able to do more weight or more reps next time you are getting stronger, run on sentance.

Thanks. All good points.

I was amazed at how heavy I was able to go on the box squat. I didn't ever feel the need for a belt and only put one on for 405 w/reverse bands to see how it would affect performance. I honestly don't think I could do those sorts of weights (315-365) without a box right now, so I thought maybe the box was too high or something was off with my technique. To be able to pause at just below parallel like that and with those sorts of percentages of my best squat...it just really surprised me.

I remember last year seeing a really buff brother at the gym squatting 315 to a parallel box set up (squatting to a bench while standing on 45's) and wondering if I'd ever be that strong. It ain't much in absolute terms, but it's one of those personal milestones.

Just thinking out loud here: Just read a few articles by Mark Reifkind over at DD. I'd read them before years ago, but now they make a lot more sense. I like the idea of rotating types of squat fundamentals--completely raw with lower percentages, box squats with briefs and a belt, belt and sleeves/wraps with lower bar position, single-ply/belt/wraps for peaking, even some occasional front squats to bring up that second pull strength.

I've tended to look for the holy grail in just one form of squat, but I'm starting to think that that's like trying to live off of just one type of food. The box squats are helping me to squat heavy while sparing my knees; they're complimenting my sumo pull training. I obviously shouldn't abandon free squatting if I plan on squatting raw in competition, but I do wonder if I shouldn't divert more time and cycles to box squatting exactly because it builds without breaking me down so much. Need to practice free squatting if I'm going to free squat well in competition, but I wonder if it should be the focus outside of meet prep.

K.Diesel

08-07-2010, 12:38 AM

Gary Gibson

08-07-2010, 01:14 AM

Unfortunately, I haven't checked your log (or too many others for that matter) in the last several days. I see you too have added box squats, and seemingly for similar reasons that I have. Before my first meet, I did them exclusively until about a month before the meet. Then I scrapped them for full squats. Worked just fine. Granted, I was a total novice, but still, I hit 2 squat PRs that day.

Hey Diesel,

I'm hashing this out on IGx. Lots of opinions on box squats, and I'm forming my own based on others' experience and my own burgeoning experience. They definitely spare the knees which is good if your knees are fooked or if you're a field athlete who can't afford to get too banged up by free squatting (and free squatting can/will take its toll even if you program carefully and keep good form!). They make the squatting/pulling muscles stronger, but they probably have much more carryover to sumo deadlifts and lifting in gear that supports/stops the lifter in the hole than they do to single-ply and especially raw squatting. If you have to support weight in the deep squat position (competition raw squats, cleans, snatches), then you'll need to free squat.

And I'm heading back to Baltimore next Friday! Don't know how long the job is going to last up there, but I expect/hope to be able to finish out my lease in November. Merritt is offering monthly memberships, but for the price of one month there, I could get a year at Dumbbarton which caters to Oly and PL. If you want, we can try to sync up some training time there. I think you have my email, but just hit me up with a PM if you don't.

Gary Gibson

08-07-2010, 08:20 PM

Slip slidin' away. Slip slidin' away hey.
The more you near your destination, the more you're slip slidin' away.

I've been feeling kinda upset lately about not being able to snatch or clean very much weight. So I went to the gym to kick some tires, tell some lies and to test out the ol' snatch.

I had a notion to tack on Broz/Bulgarian style daily training to my more Westside-ish approach to benches and deads this cycle. This was not a good notion. I lost a lot of enthusiasm as I approached my limits in the snatch today.

I did nothing but singles. With the lighter weights I did these singles with little rest between them. I got up to what I thought was 135. I didn't realize till later that I had on the 25, 15 and 10 bumpers for a total of 145. I got a good single with that weight and then added 10 lbs where I failed three times. In between my attempts Brett and Sam took cracks at it. Brett got it clean while Sam did something that looked like a front raise to overhead lockout. It was Sam who later realized that I had 155 on the bar, not 145.

My full squat snatches became power snatches as the weight increased. I like to think that if I were to devote time to learning to full squat snatch heavy, I could get bodyweight right now. It sort of irks me that I've pulled just under 500 lbs conventionally (with a belt), but have trouble cleaning more than 185. Of course, that just reflects the fact that I consistently powerlift and don't weightlift. It also reflects my average vertical jump/athletic ability and proportions heavily skewed toward the first pull over the second.

I tried to clean after the snatch, but my left wrist said "nyet!" I also got the weightlifting bug out of my system. I have to admit, I'm much happier overall making deadlift PRs than clean or snatch PRs. The deadlift is just purer and more primal to me. I'd also like to see some of my squat/deadlift improvements show up in my snatch numbers, but what can ya' do?

I've been thinking about my expectations. I need to bring them in line with reality so I'm not disappointed. I think I've used up my easy gains and probably went a little overboard and am now carrying a little too much fat overall (plus I've been getting 75% of my calories from beer this week). So 200 lbs is a fine goal to accomplish over the next couple of years. And I won't be "eating big" for it because my strength gains are bound to come but slowly at this stage.

A lean 200-lb body capable of 500-550 SQ, 300-350 BP, 550-600 DL, 200-225 Press, 250-275 Power Clean and 175-200 Power Snatch: this seems reasonable and worthwhile. Not enough to win anything important, but enough to feel strong and to intimidate the guys at the local spa gym before I get kicked out for deadlifting. I'm not making money from this and I don't really need all that extra strength in my life so I have to take my pleasures where I can.

Tomorrow is a real session: 2-board press with 275 for doubles. Maybe bench press triples with 225 and 235. Pull ups and light dips for reps. So excited! But I really don't have any bench PRs planned for this coming week. The PR will be on light bench day in the press in which I hope to get a bunch of doubles w/ 145. The most I've ever clean and pressed is about 155, so doubles with 94% of that would be good.

Then the next day (or day after that depending on how I feel): attempting sumos with 445 x4 x5, no belt. The idea is for next cycle to have 30-lb (6% 1RM) jumps as volume decreases: 475 x3 x4, 505 x2 x3, 535 x1 x2, then rest a week and pull 550x1 with a belt. Ideally this would coincide with a meet, but I don't know in which state I'll be living in a month.

Beyond that new PR in the sumo, I want to get back to free squatting, but break back in slowly. I was thinking box squats on Tuesdays and then alternating free low bar squats with sumo pulls on Fridays. I want to go for 450/275/550 @ 181 in a raw meet. That's 2.5x bodyweight SQ and 3x bodyweight DL and 1.5x bodyweight BP, which are significant milestones for me.

Gary Gibson

08-08-2010, 09:54 PM

BP
45 x10
135 x5
185 x3
225 x3
245 x1
4-board 275
4-board 315 (flared elbows too much)
3-board 295 (failed/brought bar low, but still didn't tuck properly)
3-board 295
2-board 295 or 275 (can't remember)
235 x4
225 x5

Pull Up x6 x3

Dip +0x5, +25x5, +45x3, +75x1, +90x5

Pull Up x6 x3

Played around with board presses today, but got frustrated. The plan was to work up to an easy non-board single and then go straight to a 4-board and work down to a 2-board, then finish with some no-board work. Got 245 as a no-board single, but had some slight uneven extension there and it was a bit slow. Still not too bad for 97% of my paused meet best and maybe 93% of my very best projected touch and go effort.

275 was so incredibly easy with the 4-board that I jumped straight to 315 on which I kept my arms flared. I don't remember what exactly happened next because there was a lot of critiquing and demonstration following. I missed when I tried to tuck with a lighter weight, but then got that weight when I tucked a bit better on the next. I forget whether I was using 275 or 295 and with which board. I think that I got 295 off the 2-board at some point because I was pretty thrilled by that, but it might have been just 275. I'll be able to recall better when I'm more comfortable with the board work in general.

There were a couple comments about how my arm length made my 4-board the equivalent of everyone else's 2-board. Heh. Next time around I'm just going to focus on one board thickness at a time and that will likely be 2-board. I can move about 10% more than way and it's still pretty close to my full range bench. I can work down to 1.5, 1 or 0.5 with a given weight over many cycles. Floor press will serve well for more overload with less ROM.

I was also thrilled that I was able to get 235 for four despite being a bit shot. Then 225 for five after that! Not exactly records, but a shock when the level of fatigue was factored in.

Did bodyweight-only pull ups next. First set felt so strong and fast that I decided mid-stream to tack on an extra rep to each set as well as an extra set. BUT I also decided to break it up with weighted dips so I wouldn't compromise my dip performance today. It seems to have worked. Last week I failed to get three dips w/ 90 pounds. This week I worked up to a relatively easy set of five. The fifth rep slowed, but the set was pretty easy up to the fourth. I doubt I'm that much stronger this week; I'm just wasn't as tired. I asked Brett "to call depth" and he verified that all the heavy reps had my shoulders a good three inches below my elbows.

Finished off with some horizontal shrugs on the rear delt machine.

This cycle is just about over for benches. Next bench day is a very light day on which I'll be attempting PRs for the overhead doubles. Based on how strong pull ups felt today, I suspect I may get a PR of some sort on weighted chin ups.

Tomorrow is supposed to be a PR attempt on sumo deadlifts, but I did those snatches yesterday and may need an extra day of rest and so do sumos on Tuesday instead. Supposed to do 445 x4 x5 w/o a belt to finish this cycle. If I get this, I'm confident I can hit 550 x1 with a belt after the end of the next cycle.

An observation: I believe that I've come to the point that both bodyweight gains and bar gains are going to come much more slowly. I also can't help but notice that I'm getting a bit dunlap-ish (my gut done lapped over m'belt) despite not eating very much and eating a lot meat without bread. I guess my diet is still too high in carbs and I'm going to have to start to address that. I think I could be a few pounds more muscular and a helluva lot stronger at 182 than I am right now.

Gary Gibson

08-09-2010, 09:03 PM

Power Clean for warm up
135 x3
155 x2
165 x1 x2
175 x1
185 x1
195 x0

Sumo DL (no belt, hook grip)
315 x3
405 x1
425 x1
445 x4 x2
335 x5

Warmed up with power cleans. First couple sucked and Brett commented that I was separating the two pulls way too much. Charlie noted that I was catching the bar on the lower chest and bumping it up to the rack position. My left wrist also hurt. I tried melding the pulls together on the second attempt with 165 and the bar FLEW up into the rack position and nestled there gently with no pain to the wrist. I'd finally done it right. 185 was feeling good too and I was surprised that I missed 195, but didn't try again because I was near my max and I had plenty of deadlifting to do.

I was supposed to get five sets with that 445 x4 tonight. Ha! I'd been doing dual progression, adding 20 lbs and an extra rep each week. I got 425 x3 x5 last week. But an extra 20 lbs (4% 1RM) and an extra rep meant that two sets was all she wrote. Brett noted that not having the belt to push against meant I was forced to go slowly as my abs got tired so my hips wouldn't rise faster than the bar and cause back rounding. If I'd had the belt on, I could have kept rocketing up without worrying about losing energy through a rounding back.

I've pulled 445 x5 conventionally, but that was with a belt. A belt gives me about 10 kilos/20-25 lbs on my deadlift perhaps a little bit more with conventional because I'm more bent over in that style. I'm guessing I could have done a max set of 465 x5 sumo style with a belt.

Either way, now I box squat on Thursday and then take a week off of pulling and squatting. Next cycle I put the belt on and try to hit a triple with 485 or 495, a double with 515 or 525 (my old meet best was 506) and then a single with 535 or 545. 545 would be triple bodyweight.

In other news, my knees feel like fucking oiled steel. Taking a break from squats has allowed the tendonitis to die down while the deadlifting and box squatting has kept enough tension on them to keep them strong.

Later reflection...

There's no reason I can't or shouldn't extend the ramp up to a single for a couple of cycles. I could just pull heavy twice in a three-week cycle: triples in one cycle, doubles in another and then a couple of singles. Or something like that.

I read that Bob Peoples would switch his focus from deadlift to squat and back as each lift went stale. That ain't a bad idea at all. If I had done this sort of thing months ago, I wouldn't have fucked my knees up so badly. Three or four months of deadlift and box squat focus probably is a good thing for long-term progress. A month or two or three out of the year of field movement--sprinting and jumping--in place of any squatting or pulling also probably isn't a bad idea. An in-season athlete with an actual sport (not that powerlifting is not a sport, but let's face it, the raw stuff looks a lot like general strength training for a sport) would do take a few months off. A couple months out of the year to focus on keeping the ability to run and jump while recovering from constant lifting of heavy loads = smart.

ZKP

08-10-2010, 04:38 PM

Check out Gary, using the dirty "Only good for geared lifters" conjugate shit! A machine thrown in there even! What in the Hell is this world coming too:D

Gary Gibson

08-11-2010, 10:25 PM

Check out Gary, using the dirty "Only good for geared lifters" conjugate shit! A machine thrown in there even! What in the Hell is this world coming too:D

Yeah, funny huh? Though I don't think I've ever thought this stuff was "useless" for raw lifters as it was "not nearly AS useful".

There's a very specific reason for everything I'm doing, however. The box squats are allowing me to train the squatting muscles while my knees heal. Adding bands after a top single allows me to feel a lot of weight on my back at the top so my CNS doesn't get too unused to having a really heavy bar atop my spine (very important not to have the body shut down a bit because the weight just seems heavy). The board press is also teaching my body not to panic under heavy weight. The down sets with fairly high percentages feel lighter and move faster after the board work. I don't think my bench is advanced enough quite yet to worry about bands and chains.

@181.5

Press from Clean
90 x5
130 x2
150 x1
160 x1
140 x2 x6

Chins with Weight
+0 x5
+25 x5
+45 x3
+70 x1
+90 x1
+105 x0
+95 x0
+45 x3 x4

Started with light and fast benches. Tried chains, but they weren't to my liking and Brett (who has managed to bench over 500 lbs raw at ~220) suggested that I stick with straight weight for a while yet.

Presses were with the 38-lb bar whose weight I round I round up to 40 with the collars (though I don't add the collar weight to other movements!). "160" felt like pretty close to my absolute max. I had Brett officiate by giving a press command after the clean to make sure I didn't cheat. Now, I freely admit that there's no way I could get this much weight without cleaning it first. But my last best clean-pause-press was 155 so this is a tiny PR. Did a bunch of doubles with 140 and could have kept going. In fact, the bar moved faster on the succeeding sets (same thing happened on chins).

Chins were a little disappointing. No matter what I can only ever chin with ~90 pounds added. This was the case when I weighed 150, 165 and now at a little over 180. At 165 I chinned 100 lbs so I'm only about 5 lbs stronger in absolute terms now. I like to think I could have gotten 100 lbs today if I'd have done it first.

Tomorrow is the final day before the back-off week. Box SQ (15" box, just below parallel) and I'd like to work up to a max of 375 of straight weight and 425 w/ the reverse bands.

Of final note: Brett mentioned that my power cleans have virtually no knee bend at the top. I'm probably losing at least 10 lbs and likely as many as 20 or 30 because I'm just not doing the movement right. He suggested working with a lower percentage and regrooving the proper motor patterns.

PVC

08-11-2010, 10:32 PM

Chins were a little disappointing. No matter what I can only ever chin with ~90 pounds added. This was the case when I weighed 150, 165 and now at a little over 180.

Are you doing any specific programming for chin ups?

Gary Gibson

08-12-2010, 12:29 AM

Are you doing any specific programming for chin ups?

I was this cycle. I think it will take me a few months/cycles to work up to that 115 at this bodyweight or a little heavier.

Meet Thoughts...

There's a USAPL meet in South Florida (again!) on Sept 25. I didn't think I'd be able to do it, but my knees have come a long way thanks to the corrective programming I've been doing (not squatting for a cycle then replacing squats with box squats for a cycle). I could do that meet. I'm still hanging around 181-182 lbs in the evenings while my deadlift is marching straight up. I could easily schedule a max single for Sept 25. I could maybe pull triple bodyweight then.

Sadly, my squat will not be up to par with the deadlift by then. I'd be happy just to break 400 lbs and I would be thrilled beyond measure to break my meet best of 418. This will be a chance for an interesting experiment, however. I can see how much box squatting carries over to competition raw squatting for me. Here's how I'd practice free squatting while peaking the deadlift...

Pull every other week, alternating with box squats to work the muscles in the same pattern without frying the grip too often. Straight weight on the box squat and using it as a sumo-builder.

Squat ever week and start relatively light and make diminishing jumps in the weight. Treat the belt use as board use in the bench; start off without the belt and focusing on maintaining the back angle, then belt up for a few singles. Work up to 90% of meet best after four weeks, dropping overall volume from four singles down to two.

8/23 Sumo DL w/belt 475x3
8/26 SQ up to 275, w/belt 315

8/30 Box SQ w/belt 315x3
9/2 SQ up to 295, w/belt 345

9/6 Sumo DL w/belt 505x2 (old meet max!)
9/9 SQ up to 315, w/belt 365

9/13 Box SQ w/belt 335x3
9/16 SQ up to 325, w/belt 375

9/23 Light SQ/BP
9/24 Openers
9/25 Meet!

SQ 165 kg/ 363 lbs, 185 kg/ 407 lbs, 195 kg/ 429 lbs (5 kg over last meet best and personal best)
BP TBA
DL 220 kg/ 484 lbs, 235 kg/ 517 lbs (5 kg over last meet best), 245 kg/ 539 lbs (personal best)

"No plan survives contact with the enemy, but no one survives contact with the enemy without a plan." White lights!!

Gary Gibson

08-12-2010, 10:12 AM

OK, I got the deadlift and squat peaking mapped out. Had some ideas for the BP this morning...

I got four weeks to train. I was thinking Sunday could be "heavy" day and Wednesday could be the "practice" day.

Sundays= boards
Wednesdays = paused

I never do paused in training because I've found using the stretch reflex is overall better for getting stronger. But I really ought to start practicing paused leading up to meets because I need to get better at accelerating from a dead stop on the chest. I've never missed a bench in a meet, but I'm not benching particularly heavy yet and I'm still shaky off the chest at higher weights. Need to practice the pause.

I was thinking of starting with 4-board and moving down 1-board each week. I'd start with 295 and drop it 10 lbs per week. I had trouble keeping form with 315 on 4-board last time, so 295 would be better place to start. If things felt good, I'd move it up to 305 and 315. I'd like to be able to do at least 275 on a 1-board.

Meanwhile on Wednesdays, I'd be starting with 225 singles paused and working up to 255 or 260 over the month. 255 is 2 lbs over my best paused and if I can get a solid PR with 255 or 260, then I'd be confident for a much bigger PR in the meet.

8/22 4-Board BP 295-315
8/25 Paused BP 225 x1 x4

8/30 3-Board BP 285-305
9/1 Paused BP 245 x1 x3

9/5 2-Board BP 275-295
9/8 Paused BP 255 x1 x2

9/12 1-Board BP 265-285
9/15 Paused BP 260-265 x1

Taper
9/25 Meet: BP 110 kg/ 242 lbs, 117.5 kg/ 259 lbs (2.5 kg over last meet best), 120 or 122.5 kg depending on how solid 260-265 was in training.

Assistance work? I should probably focus on various supported rows instead of vertical pulling. Should also watch the overhead pressing. I want to make things as specific for the intended event as possible. If I do vertical pulling or pressing, I should keep it very, very light and just to get blood flowing in my lats and delts. Maybe heavy DB rows on Sunday and light DB presses and pulldowns on Wednesday.

After the meet, three three-week cycles with one-week back off till end of year (Oct, Nov, Dec) with x5x5, x4x6 and x3x7 with 70%, 75% and 80%, adding 20 lbs in the second cycle and another 10 in the third. Basically a drawn out semi-Smolov base phase. Lighter BP on second BP day with the usual heavy pressing and chinning.

The goal is a 20-25 lb PR after three months. I'd like to get 295-305 touch and go bench at the end of December.

Gary Gibson

08-12-2010, 01:23 PM

Power Snatch to warm up
75 x1 x3
95 x1 x2
115 x1
135 x1
145 x1
150 x1
95 x1
95 + overhead squat x1

Box Squat to 13" box + 25# bumper
135 x3
225 x3
275 x1
315 x1
Belt 345 x1
Belt + loose Suit Bottoms 365 x1
Belt + loose Suit Bottoms 385 x1
Belt + loose Suit Bottoms 405 x1
Light Reverse Band, Belt + loose Suit Bottoms 455 x1
Light Reverse Band, Belt + loose Suit Bottoms 485 x0

Started off with power snatches. Form seems to be improving. Got a good jump on each rep. 150 flew up very well and wasn't a strain, but it did feel on a little on the heavy side. I was tired and slowing down and decided to end on a good note. I think I'm good for 160 before too long and maybe even bodyweight (180) before the end of the year. Wore the Rehbands on my shins to prevent scraping. Changed out of my modified WL shoes into Chucks...

I used a slightly thinner bumper plate today, about 1/2" less. Brought me to about 1" below parallel. Things started feeling really heavy on 345 with a belt. My right hip weakness caused the usual dip on that side that I get at heavy weights. Decided to put on the suit bottoms for the next weight jump (used legless briefs last week which I've since given away). Even though these bottoms are very loose on me (size 44 for my 180-lb frame), they made my hips feel much, much better at the bottom of the box squat. 365 went up with little trouble. Bent over a bit too much on 385, but 405 was pretty good if really slow.

Added the light reverse bands. I'd tested these at the start and discovered that they suspended the 45-lb bar about three inches below the rack height. From what I could tell, they gave almost zero support at lockout. I tested them again after I failed with the 485 and stripped the weight and discovered that it took 65 lbs or weight to get the bands to stretch down to where the bar would be at my sitting level. So about 65 lbs of help at the bottom and 5 lbs at the top.

455 with the reverse bands was my best rep of the day. It was only 395 at the bottom and I was able to keep from getting bent over at all. Knee extension was very even and solid, too, with no complaints from the hips. I knew full well that that 455 was my best for the day, but I just wanted to feel 485 on my back and to take it for at least half a ride. It felt heavy. Felt a little scary when I couldn't get up with it!

Forced to look in the mirror with the band set up, but that was actually a good thing. Helped me get centered better which becomes very important with overlimit work like this. Noticed some asymmetry and overall icky feeling in my right shoulder. It was much worse a year ago (when looking in the mirror helped me correct it back then, too).

McDouble and cheese before and after the session. Weighed 180.5 before I left the gym.

Last day of this cycle. Back off week will consist of push ups and very light front and high bar squats to re-acclimatize the quadriceps and insertions to work.

Gary Gibson

08-16-2010, 12:59 AM

(Trying to marry my love of WL and PL into my training. Thoughts during de-load week.)

Front SQ
105
155
195
215
belt, shoes, sleeves 245
belt, shoes, sleeves 275x0

Push Up "Warm Ups"
Hindu Squats x20
Push Ups, medium grip x25
Hindu Squats x25
Push Ups, medium grip x30

Just fucking around today really. Back in the apartment in Baltimore for a spell. Only have the 15-lb bar at home, the old York isometric rack and a shit load of plates.

Was curious about my front squat strength. I got up to 215 in just my underwear, then added belt, shoes and sleeves for 275. Failed to get through the sticking point with 275. Checked my log and discovered that I am no stronger on these than I was back in December of last year when I last tried them. Of course, my none of my squatting has really gone anywhere even though I'm 15 lbs heavier.

I believe I'm bumping up against my genetic limits. I'm very small-framed with narrow bones, a short torso and long limbs. I was able to get a lot stronger, but I have to accept that I'm never going to be anywhere near what most people consider big and strong. I'm on the left side of the strength and athletic distribution curve. Not whining, but I have to recognize my limits and program accordingly. Started at 125; meandered to 150 and then the gains came pretty quickly up to 185. They've since dropped off and ~180 has been very easy to maintain. It will take some work to get to 200 and I don't think I'd be able to gain much lean mass beyond that. A 500 lb low bar squat, 405 high bar and 315 front squat would be plenty for me at this point, done in the 198s. A 250 power clean, 200 power snatch would be nice at that weight, too. I'd wanted a 600-lb squat in competition and it looks like I'll have to be in single-ply to get it. A 600-lb sumo pull should be within easy reach, however.

Really wanted to address some shoulder and knee issues with repetition work during the back off week. I started with push ups, but there was a horrible pain in my left wrist. I did a couple of low-rep sets to see if it would go away. Switched to Hindu squats and was pleased as punch that I was able to do them with knees forward! My knees could not begin to handle these a few weeks back. They were too swollen to allow for that range and there was too much pain in the Q tendons. So I'm very happy about my restored knee health. Went back to push ups and was almost as pleased that a bit of warming up had cured the pain in my left wrist. Able to do medium grips almost pain free.

I haven't eaten a damned thing today and it's nearly evening. This seems very counterproductive for getting bigger and stronger, but adding 15 lbs during a force-feeding phase didn't do all that much for my strength levels. I'm 50% more massive than I was when I graduated from college and I'm a lot stronger, but I don't think I have all that much room left to go and that what I gain I will gain slowly. I will just be happy to get a 2.5x bodyweight low bar squat and 3x bodyweight sumo pull in raw competition at this point, and both these goals are within reach now. I think it'd be much smarter to accomplish them in the 181 class that I can maintain with ease these days than to try to move up to 198 before I'm really ready. 198 will be the endgame where I will peak in a couple of years.

Hours later..

Restless for a lot of reasons. Thinking about what I want to accomplish my training. I want to be a squattin' machine, but I want to be able to move with power. My ability to press heavy stuff just isn't as important to me as my ability to use my legs in a very powerful manner. I've posted on this before, but what I would like to try is to build up to more frequent squatting and frequent practice with the weightlifts. I'm not going to turn any heads with my abilities in either PL or WL, but I do want to be competent at both and to win the occasional local PL meet.

I could cycle my attentions. Work up to a point where I'm squatting and weightlifting frequently while hardly benching and not deadlifting at all. Then drop squats for a while (which I'd planned to do no matter what) while working on deadlifts, box squats, the bench and eventually gear use, while limiting the weightlifts to dynamic warm ups. In fact, that is exactly what I did last cycle! Further I could use high bar during my months of WL focus and transition to low bar during a PL focus.

Tonight I played round with high bar and low bar. Wore my modified WL shoes (1/2" rise to heel) and knee sleeves (fucking magic those things), but no belt. So I guess that counts as TANEAB (Totally Raw, Not Even A Belt!). I'd do a given weight both high bar and low bar to see how much harder it felt with the higher bar position. I worked up to a very hard 315 high bar TANEAB and then a slightly less hard 335 TANEAB low bar. I could have gone a little heavier with the low bar and a belt would probably allow me to do at least 375 at my current squat-detrained state. I then dropped the weight to 245 and did a triple with high bar just to see how fast I could move it (not especially fast it turns out).

What I learned: My knees are ready to squat again, though I'm sure they will get angry if I were to attempt hitting them with any real volume. I'm honestly going to take the rest of the week off of squatting. I just really wanted to see what heavy weights felt like on my back in different positions.

What I also learned: I'm not so sure low bar allows the use of all that much more muscle. My high bar is more than 90% of my low bar, which is close enough for government work. The big discovery is that high bar really does reinforce better position and may even enforce better hamstring recruitment. I wasn't hooked up to an EMG device or anything, but I couldn't help but notice that it was a helluva lot easier to keep good form (even though the squat was overall harder) with high bar. High bar has much less room for error--like the front squat--and too much hip shooting will result in a lost lift. With low bar, you can shoot the hips up a lot more and then good morning the sucker...which is exactly what I'd been doing on my heavy sets for the past year plus.

This is not to say that one couldn't end up good morning-ing a high bar squat, but the low bar makes it so much easier to slip into this, like alcohol makes it easier to wake up bleeding, diseased and arrested. I'd come to believe that the good morning tendency in the low bar was forgivable because of all the extra weight low made it possible to use, but now I'm not so sure. I got pretty damned close to my low bar weights with the high bar when the belt was removed from the equation. Took me a while to realize this because the belt likely helps out low bar a lot more (the belt seems to help the more bent over the torso has to get). The belt lets me squat almost 40 lbs more in the low bar version while it gives me significantly less (around 20, maybe less) in the high bar. So back when my best low bar with a belt was about 415, my best high bar with a belt might have been around 365 or so. But take the belt off and that distance shrinks a great deal.

I'm coming to agree with some notable others on this matter; low bar is a great way to compete, but high bar may be a better way to train. The extra weight used in low bar doesn't amount to much since low bar invites the loss of form that robs the muscles of work at critical points. It's possible to avoid this by lowering the weight to what can be handled throughout, but then one may as well place th bar higher and use really good form.

blowdpanis

08-16-2010, 01:08 AM

One of the oddities I noted recently was that my irritated hamstring (I strained it months back sumo pulling out of the blue) was actually hurting more HIGH bar squatting than low bar squatting, contrary to the conventional wisdom of low bar = more hamstrings.

My guess? High bar = less bent over = inherently more arched back/pelvic position, so my hamstrings were actually TIGHTER at the bottom of a high bar squat than low bar.

edit:

http://www.canadajewels.com/pages/WristMeasure0002.jpg

Btw, measure your wrist there and let me know the result. If you know the ankle size, that'd be fun(ny), too :P I want to see which of us has the more ridiculous skeleton for this strength stuff.

tertius

08-16-2010, 01:32 AM

Btw, measure your wrist there and let me know the result. If you know the ankle size, that'd be fun(ny), too :P I want to see which of us has the more ridiculous skeleton for this strength stuff.

I know I'm not invited to this contest, but it's one I might actually win...

6.25 inches.

Gary, glad to hear your knees are healing up well.
I'm too ign'nt to comment on much else, but it sounds like you've got a plan, and that's almost always better than nothing.

blowdpanis

08-16-2010, 01:39 AM

I know I'm not invited to this contest, but it's one I might actually win...

6.25 inches.

Gary, glad to hear your knees are healing up well.
I'm too ign'nt to comment on much else, but it sounds like you've got a plan, and that's almost always better than nothing.

Shit, we're tied. Let's see if Gary can take home the championship...

Gary Gibson

08-16-2010, 06:40 AM

Wrist = 6.25
Ankle = 7.75

http://weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

Height = 69.75 inches

At 10% bodyfat, maximum muscular bodyweight = 185, maximum "bulked" weight = 192.6
At 12% bodyfat, maximum muscular bodyweight = 191, maximum "bulked" weight = 198.7
At 15% bodyfat, maximum muscular bodyweight = 200, maximum "bulked" weight = 208

I'm currently 180 lbs and I'd estimate closer to 15% bodyfat than 10%.

At 10% BF, my lean mass would be about 167.
At 12% BF, my lean mass would be about 168.
At 15% BF, my lean mass would be about 170.

The 6-lb increase from 185 to 191 would be 5 lbs of fat.
The 9-lb increase from 191 to 200 would be 7 lbs of fat.

As you can see, the fat gains outpace the lean mass gains by an awful lot. This would be why I've been watching my pudge increase so rapidly while my strength has been stagnant on a diet of squats and milk once I got past 180 or so. 185 to 200 would be 12 lbs of fat and 3 lbs of muscle.

At 25% BF, my lean mass would be about 177 lbs. That would put me at just under 240 lbs. But from 180 to 240, I'd gain just over 10 lbs of muscle at the cost of about 50 lbs of fat.

My point in all this is that I am very near my potential for lean mass without having to put on ungodly amounts of fat. The cost in fat gain (about 50 lbs) for another 10 lbs of muscle is pretty damned high. The only way to alter the incurring of adiposity would be with exogenous chemical help.

I'd be a lot better of right now focusing on neurally-derived gains in strength, i.e. not worrying about volume to build mass but instead focusing more on frequency, quality ("practice") and cycling intensity.

blowdpanis

08-16-2010, 06:54 AM

Haha, 3 way tie for wrist measurement. I'll have to double check my ankle measurement, though I think it's like 8.25" or something. I'm an inch shorter than you, though, so all my numbers are less.

edit: actually, I take that back. With my slightly larger ankle size, that calculator predicts numbers that are almost literally identical for all of those between us.:)

tertius

08-16-2010, 12:28 PM

Heh.
My ankle is also 8.25. Ridiculous.

But I'm between 73"-74" tall, so my numbers are about twenty pounds higher for everything in the predictor.

I think I'll have an easy cruise to 200, and then slow gains from there.
Which I'm totally fine with.

misspelledgeoff

08-16-2010, 02:58 PM

Not to resussitate the shitstorm I caused about this particular calculator many months ago, BUT this model is not meant to predict the relationship between an individuals LBM vs. bodyfat percentage.

Reason 1: Data used to create the model didn't measure an individual champion bodybuilder at 8% bf for LBM and then measure that same person at 10% for LBM. The regression was not built on an individuals LBM at different bf% so there's no reason to believe it's useful in predicting this relationship for an individual.

Reason 2: Data used to create this model were from natural bodybuilder champions with bf% in the 8-10% range. Since there is no input data in the 10%+ bf range, there is no reason to believe model predictions are valid outside the 8-10% range.

It is only meant to predict a 'genetic potential' LBM at a relatively low bodyfat (8-10%). And it's probably a pretty good predictor if you have similar limb circumference, height, and training regimens as the natural bodybuilding champions in this study.

End rant and sorry to clutter you log. Just my $0.02

Wrist = 6.25
Ankle = 7.75

http://weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

Height = 69.75 inches

At 10% bodyfat, maximum muscular bodyweight = 185, maximum "bulked" weight = 192.6
At 12% bodyfat, maximum muscular bodyweight = 191, maximum "bulked" weight = 198.7
At 15% bodyfat, maximum muscular bodyweight = 200, maximum "bulked" weight = 208

I'm currently 180 lbs and I'd estimate closer to 15% bodyfat than 10%.

At 10% BF, my lean mass would be about 167.
At 12% BF, my lean mass would be about 168.
At 15% BF, my lean mass would be about 170.

The 6-lb increase from 185 to 191 would be 5 lbs of fat.
The 9-lb increase from 191 to 200 would be 7 lbs of fat.

As you can see, the fat gains outpace the lean mass gains by an awful lot. This would be why I've been watching my pudge increase so rapidly while my strength has been stagnant on a diet of squats and milk once I got past 180 or so. 185 to 200 would be 12 lbs of fat and 3 lbs of muscle.

At 25% BF, my lean mass would be about 177 lbs. That would put me at just under 240 lbs. But from 180 to 240, I'd gain just over 10 lbs of muscle at the cost of about 50 lbs of fat.

My point in all this is that I am very near my potential for lean mass without having to put on ungodly amounts of fat. The cost in fat gain (about 50 lbs) for another 10 lbs of muscle is pretty damned high. The only way to alter the incurring of adiposity would be with exogenous chemical help.

I'd be a lot better of right now focusing on neurally-derived gains in strength, i.e. not worrying about volume to build mass but instead focusing more on frequency, quality ("practice") and cycling intensity.

Gary Gibson

08-16-2010, 03:05 PM

FAT BRETT

08-16-2010, 08:31 PM

Gary Gibson

08-16-2010, 10:08 PM

Gary, I just clicked on that 10 yds to the endzone thing, at first I thought that you had put a side by side of you pulling with a stock news photo of someone from sub saharan africa (as sort of a joking embelishment of your progress) when i zoomed I was shocked to see that was actually a younger (possibly more innocent?) gary. Just to give me an idea of how close to ground floor that pic is what was the approximate bwt when that was taken. I know you have told me several times how you used to be small but the visual representation really hammers it home. Congratulations on your success so far, and when you start having doubts just remeber that Sandwich Conquers All.

Thanks, buddy! It may seem like a copout to some, but I want people to understand where I started. I was about 100 lbs in that picture, about age 15 or so and maybe 5'6". I finished college at age 20, 5'9"+ and 125-130 lbs. I hover around 180 now. I squatted 400+ with just a belt in competition, pulled over 500 in comp with just a belt, too, and can hit over 315 in a high bar squat without a belt. Pathetic compared to the wonders Youtube makes it easy for all of us to witness (not to mention far below even reasonably strong guys who do the Big Three even semi-seriously), but I never dreamed I'd get this far.

Not to get too sentimental here, but I appreciate a natural like yourself (who benches more raw than I've ever pulled and let's not even talk about your squat, pull and clean) recognizing the distance I've traveled, even if the starting point was low and the latter part of the journey is far, far, far from world-beating.

P.S. I called that bartender tonight. She'd just got her son home from his first day of school. Supposed to talk more later, but we'll see how that goes. :/ Would honestly rather hit that 405 high bar and 500 low bar, however. A man's got to have his priorities straight.

We're headin' back to the world's most famous double wide trailer/trash redneck bar if I come back in September and set the USAPL FL State raw deadlift record.

Tell Sam he's in my thoughts and I hope he hits that 1000-lb SQ before I get back.

Gary Gibson

08-24-2010, 09:02 PM

Doing just about all my posting/logging at IronGarmX. net these days. Spent a week doing a back off with a lot of push ups and autoregulatory high bar squats with my cheap/light/thin bar at home. Worked up to a 330 HBSQ single. Next three weeks are a ramp up on the comp versions of the Big Three with a back off week then a meet week. Here's how it started today...

SQ, high bar (WL shoes, NO belt)
135 x5
185 x4
225 x3
265 x2
305 x1
335 x1
345 x1

SQ, low bar (WL shoes, belt)
365 x1
385 x1
405 x1
415 x0

SQ, high bar (WL shoes, NO belt)
225 x5
275 x3 x3

BP, touch and go
135 x5
185 x5
205 x5
225 x5

BP, boards
5-board 275 x5
3-board 245 x5
3-board 265 x2

SQ, high bar
135 x3
225 x3
275 x2
315 x1
335 x1
355 x0

Went and got a 2x4 today and had it cut into four 16" pieces and one longer piece to make a 5-board.

Met up with Matt Nolan (716 DL raw in USAPL @ 215, NolanPower to those on this board) and got a lot of advice and help through the session.

Started with high bar and got up to 345, which was NOT a max. Very surprising because these weights felt so much heavier at home with the thinner, shorter and lighter bar. Went to singles with Low Bar and Matt pointed out I really should've started over and warmed up so my hamstrings were ready. I believe I will do that next time. Still, got to 385 and felt room for more left. Hit 405 and was so full of beans that I just had to try 415. Missed it, but Matt filmed it and I was happy to see that I hit depth (would have been 2/3 whites) and that I kept my back in extension. It looked like I would make it, too, but I was just too tired. I think when I low bar squat on Friday without any high bar first, I may very well hit that 415 without too much trouble.

Still! That's 405 low bar after over about two months not squatting at all and recovering from some seriously dinged up knees. If I can hit 415, 425 and 435 as I ramp up this month, I'll get that 440 I've been craving and maybe even that 450 2.5x bodyweight.

I should have gone to bench next, and THEN high bar squatted, but didn't do so. Next time. Bench was okay. Third work set with 225 was feeling heavy and bar slowed on fifth rep. Went to 5-board, but that was just too many boards and my ROM was nearly zero. Matt recommended I go down to three, which felt a lot better. 265 put me away, much to my surprise.

I was going to go home, but just couldn't stop myself from squatting. Worked up to 335 and wanted to see if I could push beyond that 345 today. I couldn't. 355 buried me after 3/4 of the way up. But I think I will get that this month; I was just tired today. 360 would be about double bodyweight, a real feat for me and high bar.

Still dipping on the right side with >80% weights because of some hip issue that's been there as long as I can remember. Any advice on addressing that would be appreciated.

stronger

08-24-2010, 10:22 PM

gary I missed in your old log (if you mentioned it) what happened to your knee. How long has it been/how has it been injured?

Paul Sousa

08-25-2010, 08:22 AM

I was wondering where you've been, but then I found out about your side gig as a kid's show host.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obzia0X_Vs8

tertius

08-25-2010, 11:36 PM

I was wondering where you've been, but then I found out about your side gig as a kid's show host.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obzia0X_Vs8

You should warn people to be really high before watching that video, man.

gzt

08-26-2010, 06:31 PM

Hey Gary. My calves have been growing. They're at 17" now. They used to be at 16.5". Must've been that 200kg squat.

Gary Gibson

09-01-2010, 09:30 PM

Logging mostly on IronGarmX.net these days. Doing what has worked for me in the past. Smolov Jr for BP (just 3x/week now) and a facsimile of RSR for squat modified to the constraints of meet time to get me over 440 on the squat. Going very well so far. Looking up these days on low bar squat. Training WL technique in the WL at this gym. Matt Nolan (716 DL at 215 raw USAPL) trains there and last night met Garrett, a former PLer whom I watched snatch 145 kg at ~97kg last night. Training around some very impressive people lately. Just left Orlando Barbell where Brian Schwab, Daniel Tinajero, Jo Jordan, Sam Wahnish and others, and of course the inimitable Fat Brett train. Good times.

Gary Gibson

09-09-2010, 11:38 PM

Still posting mostly at IGx (http://irongarmx.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=213486&start=50) where PL54 Jack Reape is giving me advice in my training thread and about which I'm pretty excited.

Smolov Jr for BP is going great. I just did the fifth session today with 185 x6x6 and I have the momentum to see this through. Hoping this will get me to crack 275 touch and go on the bench. If I get 280+, I will be ecstatic. Doing heavy DB rows as support work with the occasional bout of pull ups.

Only training low bar SQ for meets these days. I plan to train high bar beltless when there is no meet for which to prep. I think low bar squats with the belt are great for general strength (so a good idea for novices), but for specific leg/hip power, it does seem like high bar is better. I recently gained 1.5" inches on my vertical out of nowhere. I was stuck at 24" for years and I have on several occasions hit over 25" in the last few days. The only thing I did differently recently was a couple sessions of box squats with bands, a session of power snatches off the block, and two weeks of high bar squatting. This increase in vertical could have come from any of those or any combination or just be a result of me having rested from squats before that. But I'm guessing it was mostly the high bar squatting.

I don't know in which city or even country I'll be residing in a couple months so I'm not sure about any of the mid-Atlantic meets I'd been considering. Also, I've been feeling pretty beat up since I went back to low bar squatting on RSR. So with no meet in sight and since I really enjoyed high bar, I'm going back to it for the rest of this Smolov Jr. BP cycle and then will continue with it on a Smolov cycle of its own. If I get around to the intensive Feduleyev phase, I'll do that low bar and in whatever gear I'll be competing in (I'm thinking of doing the USAPL American Open in early Dec and there is no belt-raw division).

ColoWayno

09-10-2010, 12:23 PM

You should still start a funny thread in Ends every once in a while. I've tried filling the void, but it's not the same.

Happy travels sir!

Paul Sousa

09-11-2010, 09:29 PM

Hey Gary, I checked your log on IGX but my account hasn't been activated yet so i can't post over there. I was reading your recent experience going to high bar and wanted to let you know I made the same switch about a month ago. Since then my knees, hips and low back feel great. I was actually surprised about the knees feeling good as I always heard high bar was harder on them, but for me my knees haven't felt better in a long time. Just figured I'd share my experience to let you know it isn't just a coincidence.

Gary Gibson

06-27-2011, 07:28 PM

Still weighing 180, but switched to high bar as main training vehicle. Working on speed and power via jump training and sprints. In the middle of a Smolov base mesocycle and am working up to a heavy single each day before the work sets. Got a PR with high bar yesterday right before I did 85%+20 lbs x 3 x 10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECxtWU-Zfoc

Went home and drained the knee, but I am going to try more conservative treatment for a while: wearing neoprene sleeves throughout day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPpquLoUNSk&NR=1

Will train low bar and sumo deadlift only when approaching meets. Low bar squat with a belt is consistently 80 lbs over high bar squat while sumo deadlift is about 100 lbs over low bar squat. The idea is to get the high bar beltless squat up to mid-400's and then work low bar + belt and sumo in the winter for a meet in early 2012.

Got vertical from 23" to 28" recently with high bar at 315-325. Will try to jump distances it up again after getting high bar up to ~400 during the switching phase between Smolov and Feduleyev. Hoping to break 30" on the standing vertical and 10' on the standing broad jump. I've managed to dunk a small soccer ball on a 9'10" rim from a double leg running jump a few times. Hope to get much higher after the Feduleyev in August when my high bar beltless should be pushing into the mid-400 region.

Mr.City

06-27-2011, 08:07 PM

I always wondered how you drained those knees. Good luck, Gary.

Gary Gibson

06-28-2011, 02:47 PM

I always wondered how you drained those knees. Good luck, Gary.

Now you know. Thanks.

More PRs warming up for Smolov.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCBydFWB7Pc

Mr.City

06-28-2011, 03:04 PM

Nice squatting.

The Emancipated Freak

06-28-2011, 03:23 PM

Hey, good job with the squats, and good luck with the the knees.

hamburgerfan

06-28-2011, 03:29 PM

Paul Sousa

06-28-2011, 03:34 PM

Gary, as I know you select your lifts for very specific reasons normally, I am wondering why you have the clean grip snatches in your warmup? Curious if you read something about them translating to your current goals, would be interested if so.

Gary Gibson

06-28-2011, 03:53 PM

Those were some interesting videos. I've never heard of anyone else with the same knee problem as you. Have you heard of/talked to anyone else who had to drain their knees, or did you have to figure that out for yourself?

Did a lot of reading before I resorted to that. One specialist did it for me a couple times, but that wasn't enough and he didn't want to do it anymore or do anything surgical and told me essentially to get used to limping. I've asked around, but no one has been able to share experiences on chronic joint effusion.

Gary, as I know you select your lifts for very specific reasons normally, I am wondering why you have the clean grip snatches in your warmup? Curious if you read something about them translating to your current goals, would be interested if so.

I started out by doing clean grip overhead squats because they're harder and really reinforce an upright torso. I snatched the bar into position. Smolov or Feduleyev (I forget which) recommends a "long pull" or a snatch with minimal knee bend (power snatch) as a great warm up. I think Pavel elaborated this to snatch+wide grip behind the neck press+overhead squat as a way to practice upright torso, loosen shoulders and get the knees and hips warmed up. I like the clean grip because it's a lot easier on my wrists. And again, it's a little harder because you have to snatch the weight a little higher. But it's also easier in that it's not very technical at all (at least that's what I find).

I like to keep other athletic elements even when I'm focusing on strength. Quick lifts for speed/power and some low level plyos for reactivity make a very effective warm up and keep me from getting all stiff and slow from just squatting.

Paul Sousa

06-28-2011, 04:06 PM

Cool. I actually started using power snatches (instead of power cleans) as a warmup on my DL days and really like them. Even with the snatch grip I find my wrists take less of a beating than when I was power cleaning (my form was terrible).

brianb

06-29-2011, 04:25 AM

Did a lot of reading before I resorted to that. One specialist did it for me a couple times, but that wasn't enough and he didn't want to do it anymore or do anything surgical and told me essentially to get used to limping. I've asked around, but no one has been able to share experiences on chronic joint effusion.

Back when I had large-breed dogs they would often develop hygromas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygromas) on their foreleg "elbow" joints from lying down on hard surfaces like concrete. The vet would initially just drain them with a hypodermic, but occasionally they would have to install a drain that would allow the fluid to drip out. The drain would be removed after a week or two, and after that the dog was fine and the hygroma would never return.

Gary Gibson

06-30-2011, 02:01 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgB8K5WYEp8
PR in loose wraps, no belt: 375 and then 385. 20-lb PR from two days ago and 30-lb PR from start of cycle.
Smolov Day 10: 295 x 7 x 5 in loose wraps, no belt

Paul Sousa

06-30-2011, 02:17 PM

Gary Gibson

06-30-2011, 02:30 PM

Gary, what are your thoughts on programming pressing work during a Smolov? Specifically overhead work (strict and push presses). I am tempted to try running a Smolov cycle as my squat has always lagged, but with strongman as my focus I wouldn't want to really sacrifice any overhead strength.

Smolov is an off-season cycle meant to be done when you can put everything else in maintenance mode or, even better, drop everything else. I think a lot of people don't take that seriously enough. I know I didn't in the past. One of the reasons this is proving to be my most successful cycle ever is that I've been doing almost zero other training. I think I might have done a few pull up triples a couple weeks ago, but that was about it. The only "other" stuff I'm doing right now is what's actually recommended by the program: "long pull" (essentially a power snatch) for warm ups. I've even dropped the overhead squats I used to do after the long pull and just warm up my knees now with bodyweight Hindu squats. I also do some rapid tuck jumps to help fire the nervous system up and some very, very light and high-rep hamstrings curls as prehab for the hammies and to get some blood in the knees. No upper body work, nothing resembling heavy pulls, just some fast pulls as a warm up and some globo gym leg curls as part of a cool down. I foam and PVC roll as if it's my religion on the off days.

Smolov only works properly if you let the body put all its resources to squatting and healing up from squatting. The benefits of a bigger squat (bigger pulls, higher verticals, faster sprints) are worth a drop in bench strength and pull up prowess to me. May not be the case for others.

Paul Sousa

06-30-2011, 02:40 PM

Thanks Gary. I may give it a go at some point, but think I'll wait until I hit a point with my overhead strength that I'm okay with taking a hit on it while focusing on my squat. And I am sure the increase squat strength will allow me to get my push press up quickly after I finish the Smolov cycle.

Carlos Daniel

06-30-2011, 05:54 PM

I only wish there were a Smolov thing for deadlifts...

Gary Gibson

06-30-2011, 06:28 PM

I only wish there were a Smolov thing for deadlifts...

Smolov squatting is for the deadlift. What do you think will happen to your deadlift if you add 100 lbs to your squat?

hamburgerfan

06-30-2011, 06:31 PM

What programs, if any, would you recommend using to prepare yourself for the volume and frequency of smolov?

Carlos Daniel

06-30-2011, 06:38 PM

Smolov squatting is for the deadlift. What do you think will happen to your deadlift if you add 100 lbs to your squat?

Last time I added 50 lbs to my squat my dead stayed pretty much the same. My dead and squat are exactly the same as of now, my squat probably being higher actually.

EDIT: Now, if you promise that my dead will go up and at least keep up with my squat, you bet your ass I'll be doing smolov in a couple of months or so. If it doesn't can I bitch and moan and bother you incessantly ?

Gary Gibson

06-30-2011, 07:28 PM

Last time I added 50 lbs to my squat my dead stayed pretty much the same. My dead and squat are exactly the same as of now, my squat probably being higher actually.

EDIT: Now, if you promise that my dead will go up and at least keep up with my squat, you bet your ass I'll be doing smolov in a couple of months or so. If it doesn't can I bitch and moan and bother you incessantly ?

I had a feeling I'd hear something like this. It could be that you just got better at squatting, but not really that much stronger in the legs. Did you alter your squat technique? Clean up the squat technique you kept using? Just practice the squat more? 50 lbs from improvement in coordination within and between muscles--and without actually getting much bigger and stronger in a way that can be shown in other endeavors--is very possible depending on how much of a novice one is.

In my case, I could deadlift 315 when squatting 185 was the best I could do. I got to about 225 in the squat from just getting better at squatting before my squat gains started to push up my deadlift. (I started at as a weak 135-lb man; your initial numbers will look different.)

Every time I've increased my squat since then without doing deadlifts, I've come back to find my deadlift has gone up 4 lbs for every 5 I've gained on the squat. With a little practice with the deadlift itself I can then use the new strength with better inter and intra muscular coordination in the deadlift itself and get another 10-20 lbs. (My conventional deadlift remains ~100 lbs over my Olympic squat while my sumo deadlift remains ~100 over my low bar PL squat.) I get stronger with the squat and then get better at the deadlift.

In fact, just pounding away at the deadlift doesn't work very well at all, at least not in my experience. The squat is what drives strength. The deadlift not nearly as much. The deadlift is a demonstration of strength built in the squat. That's why the squat is the movement of choice across power sports and the deadlift takes a backseat. You don't build as much strength with the deadlift because it lacks range of motion, useful negative plus stretch reflex, and it beats up the nervous system more than the muscles. The squat beats up the muscles more, makes you bigger and stronger a thousand times more efficiently. So keep making gains on the squat and then refine it for the deadlift every now and again.

Olympic level weightlifters often have crappy deadlifts for how much they squat because they avoid the deadlift because of the needs of their sport. Yet those "crappy" deadlifts are like 700 lbs compared to a 750-lb squat. How many 700-lb deadlifters are there with squats below 500? Even in people whose builds favor deadlifting (like mine) the deficit of the squat won't be more than 150 lbs below the deadlift. The squat clearly drives the deadlift.

What programs, if any, would you recommend using to prepare yourself for the volume and frequency of smolov?

I cut my lifting teeth on stuff I read on DragonDoor. I lifted every day with low volume and then used high volume stuff like Pavel's "Bear" routine. Do a cycle or two of bear in which you start with a a couple heavy sets of five, drop the weight about 10-20% and then do a shit ton of sets of five. As many as you can. You can (and should) wave the weight up and down. Go for total volume, but how much you can do will vary each session. Sometimes it will be ten sets, sometimes three. Try to keep the rests periods between sets fairly short. Don't kill yourself, but don't lollygag either. Do it MWF or TThSa or whatever. Three-six weeks.

Carlos Daniel

06-30-2011, 07:35 PM

Those 50 lbs were real strength gains, I was well beyond technique gains at that point, we're talking about going from around 280 to 330 for sets on the squat. My deadlift is barely holding up as it is, being trained once a week with a heavy triple. I did think about o-lifters, but they do a shitload of pulling (in the form of cleans and snatches) all the time. They might not do a whole lot of heavy pulling, but it's still pulling.

hamburgerfan

06-30-2011, 07:36 PM

I thought the Bear program was just presses and deadlifts. Would it be better to do squats instead of deadlifts?

Gary Gibson

06-30-2011, 07:57 PM

Carlos Daniel

06-30-2011, 08:12 PM

Maybe your body suck for deadlifts.

I excel at the deadlift relative to my squat because I'm built for the first pull. My long arms inhibit the second pull, however, so I suck at cleans and snatches. My deadlift goes up with my squat. My cleans and snatches do, but only a little, certainly not enough to get me to the ideal ratio of 100:90:80:65 between BS:FS:CJ:Sn.

Are your arms really short? Beyond that, I don't know. I self-coach and try to make sense of things. I don't have all the answers. With my build, my squat very efficiently drives deadlift gains, but not clean gains. Maybe you're the opposite. I also have long hands and fingers and that helps. Stubby fingers and hands usually go with stubby arms. Maybe everything about your build makes you one of those people whose deadlift will always suck. I dunno.

Actually no, I have rather large hands for a guy of my size, my fingers are not chubby, my arms are of medium length and my legs are a little bit on the short side. I should be an amazing deadlifter, actually. Well, worse case scenario, I'll do smolov and end up a 550 squat and a 450 deadlift or something equally strange.

Gary Gibson

06-30-2011, 08:13 PM

Actually no, I have rather large hands for a guy of my size, my fingers are not chubby, my arms are of medium length and my legs are a little bit on the short side. I should be an amazing deadlifter, actually. Well, worse case scenario, I'll do smolov and end up a 550 squat and a 450 deadlift or something equally strange.

I like how you think!

I stopped worrying about what my pulls "should" be at a given amount of squat strength and decided to just keep getting my Olympic squat numbers up. Everything else will fall where it should when the time comes.

Carlos Daniel

06-30-2011, 08:17 PM

I like how you think!

I stopped worrying about what my pulls "should" be at a given amount of squat strength and decided to just keep getting my Olympic squat numbers up. Everything else will fall where it should when the time comes.

One thing's for sure: I'll get very strange looks on my next PL meet!

jgh

06-30-2011, 08:24 PM

Man, I admire the dedication it takes to drain your knee like that. It was pretty hard to watch that video-- I can't imagine actually having to do it!

Gary Gibson

07-01-2011, 04:48 PM

Man, I admire the dedication it takes to drain your knee like that. It was pretty hard to watch that video-- I can't imagine actually having to do it!

I may not have to do that anymore. I started using topical ibuprofen last night and it looks like I broke the inflammation cycle. The knees are both pain free and the effusion in each is going down on its own. This is entirely new territory for me. I can't believe I was able to drop into a deep squat first thing in the morning without pain and that not only do I not have to drain after a heavy squat day, but there is actually less excess fluid than there was the night before.

hamburgerfan

07-01-2011, 04:59 PM

That is great news. Also, thanks for the tip about the bear program. I'm going to do a cycle or two after my meet.

Eanderson

07-01-2011, 06:12 PM

and decided to just keep getting my Olympic squat numbers up. Everything else will fall where it should when the time comes.

Are you now pretty much on board with conventional (non-rippetoe) wisdom that HB squats drive LB squats, but not vise-versa? Would you say HB squats were easier on your knees that LB? Knee pain is my biggest fear about switching to HB.

Gary Gibson

07-01-2011, 06:30 PM

Are you now pretty much on board with conventional (non-rippetoe) wisdom that HB squats drive LB squats, but not vise-versa? Would you say HB squats were easier on your knees that LB? Knee pain is my biggest fear about switching to HB.

In short: yes. But that doesn't mean I hate low bar. I think high bar is prettier. I think it's more affletik in that it is more of a pure leg move (slightly skewed toward quads over hams perhaps), but I think low bar does a better job of inducing growth. Low bar is also more of good morning and will develop hamstrings probably more than a little better than high bar, but at the expense of quad development. I tended to low bar with a slightly wider stance (just outside of shoulder width) and my adductors were much bigger then. So low bar is probably a better all around posterior chain developer if one includes the adductors (one should) even if it's almost a wash in the hamstrings department. I wouldn't say it used "more" muscle; just shifted emphasis from quads to adductors, probably slightly more hamstrings and provides better leverage for moving weight.

So I'm not anti-low bar. It's perfect for skinny people who need to gain weight and strength. But it's more of a whole body movement, like a deadlift with a stretch reflex. That makes it king for getting bigger (the most weight you can move in a squat; even though that's partly because of leverage, you are still bearing more weight atop your shoulders/back and that seems to count for something), but the high bar is a better developer of balanced leg and hip strength I'd say (and I'm far from the only one who says this). I'm glad I used low bar to get some weight on me. It got me stronger to use more weight on the high bar. And I will perfect my low bar strength in the weeks leading to a meet where I will have to demonstrate how much weight I can squat with the most advantageous bar positioning. But when I'm after balanced leg power (like I am now), I will use high bar. Nothing blasphemous about realizing that different tools are required for different jobs.

I have been setting personal records in the high bar for the past week as I finish up the Smolov base phase. I work up to a heavy single so the work sets feel lighter. Sometimes I use wraps for the heavy single and sometimes I don't. Loose wraps give 5% extra, but the knee protection is worth it; it's actually less than my belt "gives" me in low bar. My best ever low bar + belt was 418 in the USAPL raw division about 16 months ago. My high best high bar + loose wraps was 385 this week. I expect to get a bigger high bar + wraps than I ever got low bar + belt when I take a rest week and then test. My no-no-no high bar should be just a little below or at my previous best low bar + belt, or 400+. As a matter of fact, right now my best high bar without wraps (355) is around the best I've ever low bar squatted without a belt (~355: the belt let me handle 55-60 lbs more in the squat). I am prouder of these high bar numbers than I am of those low bar numbers because they mean I am much stronger. I can lower the bar on my back a couple of inches and immediately handle ~30 more pounds in the slightly more bent over squat. I can put a belt on and get another ~30 lbs right away and with a few weeks' practice with the belt get another ~30 lbs again. It isn't unreasonable to expect to get 80 lbs when I go from high bar without a belt to low bar and a belt with the same level of knee protection.

The low bar did indeed drive gains in the high bar, but I still think that it's more efficient to treat the high bar as the driver, at least past the newbie stage. The transferability is higher high bar to low than low to high. It's not quite the same situation as the squat-to-deadlift relationship (squat transfers much, much better to deadlift than the other way around), but you get the idea.

One last thing: I fully expect to gain more weight when I optimize my low bar strength than when I'm working on high bar.

Gary Gibson

07-02-2011, 02:55 PM

Paul Sousa

07-02-2011, 03:22 PM

Nice work Gary! Only you would be mad enough to push heavy singles during a Smolov cycle, but it seems to be working well for you.

HamptonMike

07-02-2011, 08:58 PM

Impressive. Most impressive.

blowdpanis

07-02-2011, 09:26 PM

Testicles dropped today. 365 @180, high bar, no belt, no wraps. Double bodyweight the "real" way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFEDE59jFKc

I have one more day of Smolov left. Hope to get at least 20 lbs more from the resting back off week and end up well over 405 after the intensive phase. Then I can work on getting low bar + belt to 500 for a meet.

Hi Gary, just wanted to say I am extremely impressed with your squatting, as per usual. Is it my imagination, or am I seeing different oly shoes? I know you had the Ristos, but those look like VS Athletics or one of its variants.

Gary Gibson

07-03-2011, 12:21 AM

Thanks, guys.

Mike, good eye. I passed the Ristos on to a young lifter who fell in love with them after I let him try them out. He's a football player, but squats nice and deep regularly. I gave him a really, really good price. These were part of that problematic first batch from Risto and they came with a few imperfections that always irked me. I also gave up on my weightlifting dreams and just wanted a good shoe to squat in. The white hard leather VS Athletics came highly recommended for exactly that purpose on Adarq.org. If I were going to keep up with the full classic lifts, I would have given Risto another go.

Gary Gibson

07-03-2011, 10:33 PM

Failed yet again to get all the sets on the last day. Got four sets, which is exactly where I ended up a couple years ago when I last tried this shit with low bar + belt. But this time it was because of honest injury, not (just) lack of strength.

I'd pulled something in my lower leg, somewhere between the lateral head of my gastrocnemius and my tibialis anterior a couple weeks ago during overhead squats. It was kind of bothering me, but today it got really bad. I tried to massage/PVC roll away the pain and that just made it far worse. After the fourth set I couldn't put any weight on the right leg at all and I am still hobbling around several hours later. One of my buddies got a bag of ice for me to rest the leg on at the gym. I've since taken a couple naps, had a couple big meals and used lots of different NSAIDS and ointments. Nothing is really working.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfrodrIrgig

So again my last day of Smolov sucked and I didn't finish. But I've been starting each session by working up to a max with or without knee wraps. The results:

Start
Max without wraps: 335
Max with wraps: 355

Finish
Max without wraps: 365
Max with wraps: 385

So I put 30 lbs on my squat. This should come as no surprise since that is the amount I increased my working weights by week three. Note, however, that testing each day is emphatically not standard protocol for what is already an incredibly tough cycle. The gains are supposed to manifest after a week deload. 40 or 50 lbs is the usual result. It's likely that I already uncorked some of those gains and there's only a little bit left in the bottle (so to speak), somewhere on the order of 10 or at best 20 more pounds. I don't believe for a second that I'm going to get ANOTHER 40 or 50 lbs on top of the 30 I already gained. A reasonable hope would be to get 385 without wraps and 405 with wraps on the two test days six and seven days hence. I may surprise, but that would be realistic. Plugging the last week's numbers into a couple different calculators also yields very similar results.

Looking out a little further, good results from the Feduleyev intensive phase would be to get my unwrapped Olympic squat to a little over 405 and my wrapped squat to 425. Feduleyev's phase is supposed to be good for 35-45 lbs and that would mean 425/445, but 405/425 would be a good minimum to expect. Feduleyev requires the lifter to do three quadruples with 95% of the max. That means the lifter should be strong enough to do 95% for a max of five or six reps. That yields an increase in 1RM of 10% +/- 3%. A wrapped squat of 425 will have increased to 455 or as much as 470. That would be an unwrapped max of 435 to 450.

440 @ 185 (assuming a little more weight gain) would be maddeningly close to 2.5 x bodyweight. It would also represent a nice 100-lb increase for the megacycle. I would hope that it would also mean a 35" standing vertical jump.

Gary Gibson

07-05-2011, 03:18 PM

I called ABG and spoke to John Broz today. Turns out the entire team will be out of town at Nationals the entire time I'll be in Las Vegas on business. Ugh. I'll have to fly out on my own dime later in the year. Works better that way I guess. I can get a sublet for a month and train with those guys the entire time. They're moving to a bigger facility because they have nearly 20 lifters on just the three platforms right now.

I wanted to capitalize on my growing Olympic squat ability in a meet. The belt is gear and its use is maximized by a different squat form than the one I'm training now. I'll eventually get back to that style of squatting, but right now I really want to focus on the Olympic squat (high bar, close stance, no belt or wraps) and I want to compete where low bar won't give as much of an advantage because of a belt. So I'm looking at the RAW United meet which offers an "Ironman" division in which only a belt is allowed and they note whether or not a belt was used.

The Ironman Open NO Belt record for 181 is a 400 squat and 490 for deadlift (also the 45-49 -year-old record). The 35-39 record is 315 and 425. I can already beat the record by age, but I mean to take the Open record too. I was at 335 SQ and 450 conventional DL a few weeks ago. I'm at 365 SQ (and probably 475 DL conventional and 505 sumo with practice, both without a belt) now. I fully expect to get at least 405 Oly SQ by the end of the intensive phase, but I'm counting on 425-445. A 405 Oly squat alone would put my conventional beltless DL easily over 500, and probably as high as 525 with a beltless sumo of around 550.

The Raw United Tony Conyers Extravaganza is October 8-9 in nearby Tampa. If I'm still living in Florida at the time, I'll try to get those Ironman No-Belt records there. After that there are the USAPL Florida Sunshine State Games December 11 in nearby Lakeland. Again, if I'm still based in Florida at the time, I'll compete, but this time I'll bring my best low bar+belt game.

I still have a USAPL FL State record in Raw/Unequipped, http://www.florida-powerlifting.com/FloridaStateRecordRM.pdf, but it lists my 496 pull and not my 506..? That may be because I'd just gotten to Florida when I pulled 506 and wasn't here long enough to be considered a resident. Either way, I plan to beat both of those pulls by a lot in December and easily take the squat and total record as well.

I want to do all this as a 181-lb lifter. This would be promising because at 181 and 5'9"+ I am still extremely skinny for this sport. I look forward to being notably strong at the top of the 198 class in a couple of years. I also look forward to being able to a standing vertical approaching 40" at that time, and maybe a lot sooner.

The lower right leg is feeling much better since I strained the tendons there on Sunday. I could barely walk on Sunday, but today I'm able to move around well enough and even drop into a squat with heels raised, though that's still painful. I definitely can't run and jump right now and I'm worried about what this will mean for my speed work (jumping and running) during the switching phase. I may have to spend both this week and next avoiding top end efforts involving violent plantarflexion.

ello

07-05-2011, 03:38 PM

It's always awesome to see someone push through injuries. I'm rooting for ya, Gary. Keep it up.

Gary Gibson

07-06-2011, 10:10 PM

It's always awesome to see someone push through injuries. I'm rooting for ya, Gary. Keep it up.

Thanks, ello.

Got another injury too! Turns out that extreme dorsiflexing--like putting your heels up on a high block--and then trying to squat a lot of weight is not so good for the peroneus muscles on the anteriolateral portion of the lower leg. This can cause an acute injury--a first degree tear--that becomes a worse injury--a second degree tear--if you try to fix it by rolling it on a hard cylinder like a PVC pipe.

The first insult to the muscle came from those relatively heavy overhead squats with my heels on a block. I remember the muscles twitching badly there. Then on the last day of this cycle it got really bad and I thought I just needed to do some rolling to clear it up. Wrong. Basically bruised the already injured muscle even further. Couldn't even stand after that. Iced it for 30 minutes and went home.

Felt better the next day and even better the day after that. I definitely couldn't run or jump, but I figured I go in and just test drive the squat. Eeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhnnnnnnt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAKossX8n3Y
The injury was giving me warnings that got louder as the weight went up. 335 didn't feel all that bad, but as things got heavier and I had to strain, the lower leg really started complaining. I'd been warned the day before and that very day by a former athlete: "You will think you're fine until you go for top end performance. Then something bad will happen. So take it easy. Let it heal."

Uh huh. At 355 I folded like a house of cards in an earthquake. Pain in the lower leg was amazing at the bottom of the squat. Before that the weights were feeling heavier than they should have because I wasn't moving as aggressively due to the building pain. This also caused a little form breakdown that hurt the base of my spine.

So looks like I won't be testing a new max at the end of this week after all. Then I have to travel internationally for a few weeks and I really should use that time to let the small tears in my lower leg musculature heal. Luckily, it seems to be muscle and not tendon. Right now the pain is pretty much what it was earlier today. I hope it will be mostly gone by next week and then the leg will be solid by August. I still want to test a max and tackle Feduleyev intensive phase. I got a 30-lb PR in the squat already during the base phase so it wasn't all in vain. I'll probably lose a lot with nearly a month off, but strength is always easier to reclaim than it is to build in the first place.

Good news is that the knee inflammation and pain are down to nearly zero. I still drain occasionally, but all seems to be old stuff and there seems to be little or no refilling. And the right knee is proving amazingly stable and looking normal. The left was worse and may be refilling a little (it's the one I still drain more). Still a little puffiness on the distolateral area, but nothing at all like it used to be. And the refill isn't there the next morning after heavy squatting!

Bronan the Barbarian

07-07-2011, 10:12 AM

Gary, congrats on the gains and best of luck with the knee issues. Only a BOSU ball and reiki can save you now. On the topic of training for speed, vert, and general athleticism: I have a post up on Pendlay's forum (under the name Master Splinter) about his comment from a recent T-Nation article that athletes need to train at a variety of speeds.

Watching some of Defranco's videos with his off-the-wall explosive movements made me think of the Pendlay comment. On a broad level they are probably doing basically the same thing, a variety of exercises on a continuum that looks like this:
Heavy and Slow<------------------------------------------>Light and Super Explosive

I want to learn more about how they put it all together and why they choose the exercises they use.

Paul Sousa

07-08-2011, 10:02 AM

Hey Gary, out of curiosity have you ever tried TKE's? I read something from Dave Tate on them and it made me realize my VMO was pretty much asleep. I've started doing them daily, 10-20 per leg with 5 second holds per rep, and I am noticing a definite improvement. Things like going down stairs or landing from a jump are much easier on my knees now. Just figured I'd mention it as it's an easy thing to try.

Gary Gibson

07-11-2011, 02:35 AM

My knee issues go way beyond TKEs! I found a topical NSAID that did the trick to break the inflammation cylce. So lately when I've drained, the results have been lasting longer. Haven't had to drain in days now. But I'm starting a month-long back off right now and I suspect that heavy squatting, pulling, running and jumping will bring back the effusion.

My lower leg really is injured. I've been trying to pretend it's not that bad, but it is. I hate to whine about an injury, but this one really is keeping me from doing much with my lower body. Can't squat heavy and can't run and jump at all. I tried pulling (beltless conventional) instead on test day with abysmal results. 405 went fast enough, but then 435 had my ears ringing. 3% decrease from the 450+ I've hit twice this year. Usually the squat strength increases are right there in the deadlift, but I suspect that this is the result of my insistence on doing max singles at the start of each Smolov session.

The lower leg didn't bother me that much during the pull, but it feels like it's gotten worse since. I hope this is healed by August when I start training again.

Paul Sousa

07-11-2011, 06:01 AM

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest they would help with your current injury, or even take away your effusion issues. I just wondered if you had ever tried them, and if not I wanted to share my experience with them. Pretty random, I know.

Gary Gibson

08-04-2011, 09:21 PM

Stopping back into Orlando for a few days before another bout of travel. Not enough time to restart a membership and train. Maybe for the best.

Lower leg is 99% healed up because I stayed off it. There were days were just walking really hurt, but now it doesn't hurt unless I jump really high a few times.

I did some triples in the vertical jump yesterday and got my head within an inch of the 8' ceiling after four sets. So vert is back at 27" after being detrained. Lower leg started to ache a tiny bit, but nothing major.

Going to work back into jump training very slowly, but don't know when (and if) I will squat again. I didn't do any jumps at all today and may not do any again till Saturday. Twice a week really is plenty. Will start using the bands again too. Maybe even start sprinting!

Knees are doing amazing after weeks without squatting. I thought I would have to drain them, but the Voltaren (really cheap in Canada and available on the shelves) has really been keeping the inflammation under control which has led to the excess fluid going down on its own.

I thought that I might need to drain at least the left knee, but now that I'm back, I notice that the knee doesn't really need it. Wouldn't be worth it to go in at all right now.

Not sure what effect squatting will have on this improvement and really won't be able to find out any time soon, until I figure out where I'm going to live permanently. Got a few cities in different countries to try out over the next 18 months. I'll use the time to keep jumping and running, but recuperate from overdoing it with the back squats for the past three years.

Carlos Daniel

08-04-2011, 09:55 PM

Gary, I'm about to run Smolov for the first time in a couple of weeks. Any tips from a Smolov veteran such as yourself?

Gary Gibson

08-06-2011, 04:24 PM

Gary, I'm about to run Smolov for the first time in a couple of weeks. Any tips from a Smolov veteran such as yourself?

Don't do it too often, only once per year or less. Knock off as much of any other training as possible, going so far as to do nothing but squatting if possible; this is even more effective than just getting extra rest or eating more. Pick a starting weight that will have you using 92-94% of your max on the last day. 94% is actually pushing it and 95% will very, very likely be too much. Don't psyche yourself out; believe you can get the reps and that it will actually get EASIER each session as your body adapts to the frequency and loading.

****

Voltaren seems to have knee issues up entirely. The problem seems to have been inflammation all along and the Voltaren killed it dead and has since kept it under control.

Lowering volume and frequency also seems to be wise. I had/have some deep down overtraining issues from trying to do Smolov way too frequently (I just did it recently and gained 30 lbs on my squat).

Today's jumping:

Still breaking in slowly. Just a few triples and some singles. Using the head touch point to measure. Grazed the top of my head on the indoor ceiling after about four sets. My scalp actually pushed up against the 8' ceiling; felt it through my hair (my fro is laying incredibly flat today, looking like a semi-permed Frederick Douglass). Took the jumping to the porch where the space between floor and ceiling is four inches greater. Hung the scotch tape and had an observer. Managed to push the tape up when it was hanging at the 8'2" level and get within an inch of the 8'4" ceiling. Jumps really deteriorated after that peak, however, and I gave up after a couple more.

It's not the most scientific method, but I'm still confident that my standing vertical is about 8'2.5" minus my 5'9.5" height. That would be 29" and even if I'm off a bit and only actually getting 28", that's still as good as I was before I took the layoff because of injury and travel.

I've lost five pounds and am probably a little faster if weaker because I've allowed for so much rest. So it makes sense that after a couple of sessions I'd be able to get a little higher. I won't be able to retrieve my training shoes and bags of various sized balls till Tuesday. I'll then go to the really good basketball court with various rim heights and try to dunk.

Gary Gibson

08-10-2011, 01:41 AM

Pogo hops

SVJ triple w/o bands

Hit 27"+ each time on first warm up triple. Hair hit 8' ceiling.

SVJ triple w/ heavy-medium-light bands
SVJ triple w/ medium-light bands
SVJ triple w/ light bands

Tried to hit my head on the 8'4" ceiling outside. Nothing doing. It was 2 am so I was obviously alone at the time and didn't have observer to let me know how close I was getting and if I was hitting the strips of tape I had hanging.

Depth Jumps from 18" three triples
Tuck Jump variations

I was feeling a little bummed because I couldn't see any improvement after feeling so keyed up tonight. Then I came inside and did one more standing jump with the expectation that I'd only get within an inch or so of the ceiling because I was so tired. Was wrong about that. Absolutely bashed my head on the 8' ceiling. Really hard. I have a bit of headache now. I could only graze my head earlier in the evening and I figured I was tired and could only barely hit the ceiling at best. Almost put a hole in it instead.

Paul Sousa

08-10-2011, 09:41 AM

ColoWayno

08-10-2011, 09:55 AM

Absolutely bashed my head on the 8' ceiling. Really hard. I have a bit of headache now.

* told you so look *

What happened to the device your dad helped you make? (If I recall this correctly).

Gary Gibson

08-13-2011, 06:23 AM

Gary, this may seem blasphemous to you, but have you ever tried or considered box squats? Should be a lot less taxing on your knees and they are still a great option if you aren't looking to compete as a raw PL.

I don't think box squats will induce the adaptations I seek. They have their uses and I've done them before and I considered doing them again to spare my knees. But they emphasize the hamstrings when done properly with the sit back method, while the high bar squats balance the development between quads and hams better. Box squats can be done in a manner that emphasizes quads--you can even box front squat--but my knees are better and I can just squat now.

* told you so look *

What happened to the device your dad helped you make? (If I recall this correctly).

It's on the back porch where using it might have woken some people up.

Hindu squats
Pogo hops

SVJ head touch 7'9" x 3
SVJ head touch 7'11"
SVJ head touch 8'+

SVJ w/ heavy-medium-light bands x 3
SVJ w/ medium-light bands x 3

SVJ head touch 8'+ x 2

SVJ w/ medium band x 3

SVJ head touch 8'+

Sun can't shine on the same dog's ass every day. I got 27" at best today. I have squatted 365 in the past couple months, but that was a peaked max. I'm probably back down to 315 right now since I haven't squatted in two months. I'm also back in New York for a couple weeks and walking around a lot. I wonder if that isn't making me a little tired and inducing the wrong kind of adaptations.

I think I need to get double bodyweight squat for a few comfortable reps before I can expect to hit 30" on the standing vertical. I'd like to get on a six-week cycle as soon as I stop traveling and settle somewhere for a little while.

hamburgerfan

08-13-2011, 11:15 AM

Do you think you'll be powerlifting any time in the foreseeable future?

Gary Gibson

08-15-2011, 03:52 PM

Do you think you'll be powerlifting any time in the foreseeable future?

Maybe next year. My knees were banged the fuck up from all that squatting and they are feeling sublimely good now that I've stopped and found an NSAID that works. I am in no rush to go fuck them up again. Also I am traveling a lot these days with lots of international jaunts in my future. Competition must necessarily take a back seat in my life from now on.

Hindu Squats
Pogo Hops

SVJ x 3 x 2 to 8' head touch
SVJ w/ heavy + light bands x 3 x 3
SVJ w/ medium band x 3 x 2
SVJ w/ light band x 3
SVJ x 3 x 2 to 8'+ head touch
Results: 26.5"

Set up a camera to monitor my last couple of attempts with the plumb-pen hanging at 8'3". Came no closer than 3" on any of those jumps.

Now I know I can't set personal records every time I go to jump. But a personal record would be nice. I figured I'd up the volume every other day as long as I'm not squatting. Build a base, so to speak.

Carlos Daniel

08-15-2011, 10:09 PM

Don't do it too often, only once per year or less. Knock off as much of any other training as possible, going so far as to do nothing but squatting if possible; this is even more effective than just getting extra rest or eating more. Pick a starting weight that will have you using 92-94% of your max on the last day. 94% is actually pushing it and 95% will very, very likely be too much. Don't psyche yourself out; believe you can get the reps and that it will actually get EASIER each session as your body adapts to the frequency and loading.

Let me see if I get this right. My "true" 1RM is around 450. 94% is 423, rounding to 420.

What you mean is that the last Saturday of the base mesocycle should be 420x3x10?

Gary Gibson

08-16-2011, 12:21 AM

Let me see if I get this right. My "true" 1RM is around 450. 94% is 423, rounding to 420.

What you mean is that the last Saturday of the base mesocycle should be 420x3x10?

92% would be 414. 415 sounds good.

The Emancipated Freak

08-16-2011, 01:14 AM

Man Gary, you've had a lot of progress. And your knee draining video was both intriguing, and arousing. Good luck.

Carlos Daniel

08-16-2011, 10:09 PM

92% would be 414. 415 sounds good.

I get 413x3x10 when I put 450 as my 1RM in the calculator, which is pretty much what you recommended.

And in the name of god, how the fuck am I supposed to do 415x3x10 if my 1RM three weeks ago was 450? Am I the only one who thinks this is utterly insane?

tertius

08-17-2011, 12:26 AM

I get 413x3x10 when I put 450 as my 1RM in the calculator, which is pretty much what you recommended.

And in the name of god, how the fuck am I supposed to do 415x3x10 if my 1RM three weeks ago was 450? Am I the only one who thinks this is utterly insane?

Is that ten sets of triples, or three sets of ten? Cuz ten sets of triples would seem doable, if long. Anyway, isn't Smolov about crushing yourself with insanity?

hbriem

08-17-2011, 03:10 AM

I get 413x3x10 when I put 450 as my 1RM in the calculator, which is pretty much what you recommended.

And in the name of god, how the fuck am I supposed to do 415x3x10 if my 1RM three weeks ago was 450? Am I the only one who thinks this is utterly insane?

That's Smolov for you. Utterly insane. That said, 10 sets of 3 with 92% is "sort of" doable, but takes maybe 4 hours.

Gary Gibson

08-17-2011, 07:38 AM

I get 413x3x10 when I put 450 as my 1RM in the calculator, which is pretty much what you recommended.

And in the name of god, how the fuck am I supposed to do 415x3x10 if my 1RM three weeks ago was 450? Am I the only one who thinks this is utterly insane?

Your 1RM will be ~480 at that point. After a week to dissipate fatigue it could be 490-500.

Carlos Daniel

08-17-2011, 01:18 PM

Your 1RM will be ~480 at that point. After a week to dissipate fatigue it could be 490-500.

This gave me the chills.

hamburgerfan

08-17-2011, 11:51 PM

Thanks. It's my favorite quote from a movie. Any guesses which movie?

I know this is a very old post, but it's Serenity, right?

Gary Gibson

09-15-2011, 07:56 AM

I know this is a very old post, but it's Serenity, right?

Yup.

Been on the road for a month. Initially kept up with the jump training, but realized that I was just not making progress without strength training as well and gave it up after two weeks.

I'm still prone to travel, but will be staying in place long enough to go to a given gym consistently for a month or two. Will get back into a regimented barbell program within the next couple of days.

Down to 170 lbs in the morning! This is from a high of 188 last year and a norm ~180 a few weeks ago. My natural eating habits have me eating only once or twice per day most days. I often don't eat anything at all till around 5 pm and may then eat again a few hours later. About once per week I have breakfast.

LeonidasfromSparta

09-15-2011, 08:06 AM

Down to 170 lbs in the morning! This is from a high of 188 last year and a norm ~180 a few weeks ago. My natural eating habits have me eating only once or twice per day most days. I often don't eat anything at all till around 5 pm and may then eat again a few hours later. About once per week I have breakfast.

I hope this is voluntary.

medwards

09-15-2011, 02:53 PM

Been on the road for a month.

What do you do for exercise/training when you're traveling? If I'm not traveling, my wife is. If both of us are home, then having two young kids makes getting to the gym difficult.

Gary Gibson

09-15-2011, 09:38 PM

What do you do for exercise/training when you're traveling? If I'm not traveling, my wife is. If both of us are home, then having two young kids makes getting to the gym difficult.

If I'm going to be somewhere at least two weeks, I get a monthly membership at a gym if there is a good one nearby. But my travel plans this last time had me in places for 3-10 days at a time for two months. I was never anywhere long enough to justify getting a membership. So I lost 15 pounds of muscle and fat, 90 lbs off my squat and 20 lbs off my bench.

Here are this evening's results.

Back Squat, high bar, no belt, no sleeves
45 x 11, x 9
115 x 5
155 x 3
185 x 2
225 x 1
245 x 1
275 x 1
225 x 3 x 2

Bench Press
45 x 11, x 8
95 x 5
135 x 4
185 x 2
205 x 1
215 x 0
165 x 4 x 3

Chin Up x 6 x 3

Amazing how much size and strength can be lost in a month or two. High bar squat is down from 365 to a shaky 275 or 25%. My quads started quivering with 135! Left quad hurting more than right and left adductor hurting where right is not. Left clearly taking over still. Reps felt impossible.

Bench Press down from all time best of 245 and recent best ~230 to 205 or ~15%. Able to do more reps with similar percentage of weight than I could in the squat (though not exactly because I'm not counting bodyweight in the squat calculation and I really should at least count head+torso+arms weight).

Chin up numbers unchanged because loss of strength balanced out by loss of 15 lbs of bodyweight, especially in the lower body. My mother even commented that I looked really skinny when I got home. She wondered what had happened.

Hardy Taco Bell dinner and a quarter gallon of whole milk. Not going for GOMAD anymore because it's probably not as effective at my age and with my prior experience, but definitely want some extra nutrients and calories before bedtime.

Gary Gibson

09-20-2011, 01:39 AM

Depth Jump x 4 x 3
Standing Vertical Jump x 3 x 5 (24"+)

Front Squat
135 x 5
165 x 3
185 x 2
205 x 1
225 x 1
235 x 1
185 x 3 x 4

Press
45 x 5
65 x 3
95 x 3
115 x 2
125 x 1
95 x 5, 4, 4

LeonidasfromSparta

09-20-2011, 04:25 AM

So what's next? What are you objectives right now?

Gary Gibson

09-21-2011, 11:18 PM

So what's next? What are you objectives right now?

Strong, powerful legs. Same as always. 2.5x bodyweight Olympic squat, 3x bodyweight deadlift, 35" vertical, sub 5 sec 40 yd.

Standing Broad Jump x 3 x 8 to 7'4" multiples times.

Romanian and SL Deadlift to 315 x 1
Deadlift 355 x 1

High bar back squat down from 365 to 275
Deadlift down from ~450 to 355
Standing vertical jump down from 28" to 25"
Standing broad jump down from 9'3" to 7'4"
Weight down from ~185 to ~170

So much ground to recapture. Bought a couple gallons of whole milk tonight.

Carlos Daniel

09-22-2011, 07:18 PM

Currently doing Smolov.

FUCK THIS SHIT, I'M NEVER DOING THIS AGAIN.

How the fuck did you manage to do this more than once?

K.Diesel

09-22-2011, 11:33 PM

Currently doing Smolov.

FUCK THIS SHIT, I'M NEVER DOING THIS AGAIN.

How the fuck did you manage to do this more than once?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

I'm not answering for Gary, but I'm laughing because I've thought the same thing and said it to myself during my run last spring with Smolov Jr. Then I tested my squat at the end. I went from a raw 457 to a raw 490 in 5 weeks. And there's the answer to your question. As much as I hated Smolov, his bastard son Jr, and squatting when it was all over, I haven't been able to stop thinking of that 33 lb jump I achieved with it. It's like a drug. Nobody in their right mind actually likes needles or heroin, but it must be one hell of a high to make someone stick themselves with a needle at least once a day to get it.

I don't know how Gary has done Smolov or variations so often, but I know that while I hated every set of Smolov after Day 1, Set 2, there's a good chance I'm going to do it again at some point. If you get the right payday from it, you'll consider doing it again too. :)

Gary Gibson

09-25-2011, 09:43 PM

Well, I doubt I'll ever do a real Smolov again. I am afraid of inducing chronic inflammation again so I'm trying to keep the loaded knee articulation to two times per week. If I do Smolov or Russian Squat Routine again, it will be modified to twice a week (six weeks for a stretched out Smolov and nine weeks for RSR).

Clean grip power snatch + overhead squat: 45, 95, 115, 135

Back Squat, high bar, no belt
45 x 10
135 x 6
195 x 3
235 x 2
275 x 1
300 x 1
235 x 4 x 5

Bench Press
45 x 10
95 x 6
135 x 4
175 x 2
195 x 1
205 x 1
215 x 1
175 x 4, x 3, x2

Pull Up: x 5, x 1, x 2, x 3, x 1, x 2, x 3
Weighed 173

Regaining squat strength. 275 for a shaky single last week and 300 for a much more solid yet difficult single this week. Able to do more than twice as many sets with back off 80% weight too. Bench w 215 was absolute max. Defaulted to ladders with the pull ups. Surprised I was able to cg snatch so much weight still.

Carlos Daniel

09-25-2011, 10:25 PM

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

I'm not answering for Gary, but I'm laughing because I've thought the same thing and said it to myself during my run last spring with Smolov Jr. Then I tested my squat at the end. I went from a raw 457 to a raw 490 in 5 weeks. And there's the answer to your question. As much as I hated Smolov, his bastard son Jr, and squatting when it was all over, I haven't been able to stop thinking of that 33 lb jump I achieved with it. It's like a drug. Nobody in their right mind actually likes needles or heroin, but it must be one hell of a high to make someone stick themselves with a needle at least once a day to get it.

I don't know how Gary has done Smolov or variations so often, but I know that while I hated every set of Smolov after Day 1, Set 2, there's a good chance I'm going to do it again at some point. If you get the right payday from it, you'll consider doing it again too. :)

If I do it right, I might be able to do 550 with the right knee wraps. I'm pushing for 600+ with a single ply suit. At that point I should weight just under 200 lbs, making this a 3x BW squat. If Smolov is the price to pay for that, I'm willing to pay it. If I can do it, then FUCK, maybe I'll do the full Smolov (I'm just doing the base mesocycle), see if I can do 700 one day.

Gary Gibson

09-27-2011, 09:54 PM

Standing Broad Jump x 3 x 4 to 8'7"
Sprint 40 yards x 6 to 5.7 seconds

Clean Grip Snatch + Overhead Squat
95 x 1 + 1
115 x 1 + 1
135 x 1 + 1
140 x 1 + 3

Deadlift + RDL
135 x 1 + 4
225 x 1 + 3
275 x 1 + 2
315 x 1 + 1
335 x 1 + 1
355 x 1 + 1
375 x 1 + 1

Press out of rack
45 x 5
85 x 3
100 x 2
115 x 1
125 x 1
130 x 1
110 x 4 x 3

Chin x 3, x 4, x 5, x 3, x 4

Got over a foot back on the standing broad jump. Jumped barefoot on grass instead of in squat shoes on garage floor. Much better. Consistently 8'7". Sprinted a couple hours later and got timed at either 5.7 or 6.3 repeatedly for 40 yds. Painfully slow.

Tried to RDL after deadlifts from floor, but honestly it turned into a touch and go double for a regular deadlift. Made me decide to default to a Texas Method set up:

Back Squat
Front Squat
Back Squat, Deadlift

alternating Bench/Pull Up day with Press/Chin Up day.

Quads and IT Band already seizing up. PVC rolled last night and will do so again tonight.

Gary Gibson

09-30-2011, 09:27 PM

Drained left knee yesterday and then had to drain it out again at night. The refill seemed to be reactionary. The left knee hurt and the fluid seemed to be support for whatever derangement I caused with the broad jumps.

Back squat, high bar, no belt
45 x 9
135 x 6
195 x 3
245 x 2
275 x 1
295 x 1 (barely)

Bench Press
45 x 9
95 x 6
135 x 3
175 x 2
195 x 1
215 x 1 (barely)

Chin Up x 1, x 2, x 3, x 4, x 5, x 1, x 2, x 3

I just barely got the same weights I managed at the beginning of this week. Was trying to segue into 2x/week back squatting, but my rate of progress may not improve with the extra frequency. Still can't believe I'm struggling with the squat under 315 and with the bench under 225 and with the conventional deadlift under 405.

hamburgerfan

09-30-2011, 10:10 PM

How many times total did you do smolov?

Gary Gibson

10-04-2011, 09:22 PM

How many times total did you do smolov?
Six I think. Successful thrice I believe. Too many in the past two years. You don't believe you're racking up a toll when you do this shit, but you are. I'll probably do it a couple times more as I try to get as close to a 2.5x bodyweight high bar squat as possible. Take very seriously the need for explosive work with all that volume, however. Very seriously. Power and speed go away if you only train for long time under tension.

Jamie

10-04-2011, 09:52 PM

Six I think. Successful thrice I believe. Too many in the past two years.
damn son you crazy. I was squatting everyday for a while and made good gains, but I've since backed off a bit. what were your gains like on smolov?

Gary Gibson

10-09-2011, 08:14 PM

damn son you crazy. I was squatting everyday for a while and made good gains, but I've since backed off a bit. what were your gains like on smolov?
About 40 lbs.

Sunday 2011-10-02
High bar squat, no belt
45 x 10, 135 x 6, 185 x 4, 225 x 3, 255 x 2
275 x 1
(loose wraps)
245 x 5 x 3
255 x 5
265 x 5

...

Bench Press
45 x 11, 95 x 6, 135 x 5, 175 x 3
205 x 1
165 x 5 x 3

Chin Up
x 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (15)
x 1, 2, 3 (6)
x 1, 2 (3)
x 1, 2, 3 (6)
x 1
-----
31

True fact: knee wraps save lives.

Once again, let me point out that the wraps allow me to train more while drastically reducing strain on the knees. They give me another 20 lbs on my lifts, but they prevent post-workout pain and effusion. It's the bottom part of the squat where the harm is done, when the knees are fully stretched and bearing the load, especially with any bouncing. The wraps bear the brunt of the load in the knees' most vulnerable position.

Used heavy singles as warm up and stayed away from maximal effort. A fairly heavy single makes the work weights feel lighter. Was surprised to get 265 for reps, even with the wraps. Very good form too. Didn't lose back angle except for a rep or two. Lots of hours between squat and upper body work. A little sad that 165 x 5 x 3 was pretty much all I had in me. Fairly satisfied with the chin up ladder results.

Tuesday 2011-10-04
Clean Grip Overhead Squat from Clean Grip Snatch
45 x 5, 95 x 3, 115 x 3, 125 x 2
135 x 2
140 x 1

Back Squat, high bar, no belt
135 x 6
185 x 3 x 6

Press out of rack
45 x 6, 85 x 4, 105 x 3
120 x 2
130 x 1
115 x 3 x 3

Jerk out of rack 135, 145, 155, 165 (pressout)

Pull Up ladders
x 1, x 2, x 3. x 4. 5 (15)
x 1. x 2, x 3 (6)
x 1. x 2 (3)
x 1
----
25

Light squat day with fairly heavy pressing not to failure. Bar was popping off shoulders during squat and during one especially enthusiastic rep I started to attempt a jerk from behind the neck but missed and ended up bruising my upper back a little. Press with 130 was the easiest yet and I might have gotten 135 if I went straight for it. 115 triples were not to failure. Did some jerks after that because I wasn't going to get any jump training in tonight. Needed to do something explosive. And was curious as to how much I could jerk with a 300 1RM high bar squat. I was tired and 165 was shaky. I like to believe 175 is possible when fresh.

Thursday 2011-10-06
Clean Grip Overhead Squat
from clean grip snatch 45 x 5, 95 x 4, 115 x 3, 135 x 2
from clean and push press 145 x 1, 155 x 1

Squat, high bar, no belt
45 x 12, 135 x 6, 185 x 4, 225 x 3
(knee sleeves)
265 x 2
285 x 1
305 x 1
320 x 1
(knee wraps)
335 x 0

Bench Press
45 x10, 95 x 6, 135 x 3, 175 x 2
195 x 1
210 x 1

Deadlift, conventional, no belt
135 x 3, 225 x 3, 275 x 2, 315 x 2, 355 x 0
(hook grip)
355 x 1
(mixed grip)
385 x 1
405 x 0
(hook grip)
315 x 3 x 3
335 x 3
355 x 3
365 x 3

Chin Up ladders
x 1, x 2, x 3, x 4, x 5, x 6 (21)
x 1, x 2, x 3, x 4 (10)
x 1, x 2, x 3 (6)
x 1, x 2 (3)
x 1, x 1
-----
42

Wind Sprints ~30 yds x 6, barefoot in parking lot

Weighed 178 nekkid. The extra weight helped add 20 lbs to the 295-300 I was struggling with the past couple of weeks at 173 on the squat. Bench sucked after that, but deadlift really disappointed with a mere 385. 405 felt stapled to the floor. Went down to 315 for triples and worked back up when that weight started feeling light and moving fast. Got to within 20 lbs of today's best, for a triple. Also got some practice with the hook grip at moderate weight. New volume record on chins and felt really fast on those untimed sprints. Like the idea of ending sessions with some wind sprints. Good for conditioning and for making sure I can still run (I really couldn't for a long while).

2011-10-09
Back Squat, high bar, no belt
45 x 12, 135 x 6, 185 x 4, 225 x 3
(knee sleeves)
255 x 2, 275 x 1, 295 x 1, 315 x 1, 325 x 1
(knee wraps)
265 x 5 x 3
275 x 5
295 x 5
315 x 1

Press
45 x 5, 85 x 5, 105x 3, 115 x 2, 125 x 1

Standing Vertical Jump
x 3 x 3
x 3 w/ 2 light bands
x 3 w/ 1 light band
x 3 x 2 up to 1/4" under an 8' head touch = 26"

Squats felt good. Good form on all, minimal segmenting even on heaviest weights. 325 single felt and looked better than 320 single a few days ago. Weighed 180 and I'm hopeful that I'll be back at 365 by the time I get to 185. 275 felt so good that I jumped to 295 for the next set. That felt so good that I went to 315, but was clearly too tired to get any reps. Used the new white Altus knee wraps. About the same assistance as the heavier wraps, but I can keep them on longer. Didn't have time to get into the press session today or do pull up ladders.

Did jumps at home. Knee immediately filled up after one particularly bad landing. Drained 22 cc, but had to drain 32 a couple days ago after walking around. In my experience. it's the light, repetitive impact from walking that really pushes the knee into the danger zone after lots of loading. Of course, it fills after squatting, pulling, running and jumping, but simply walking can be even worse! I've been in the same place with the right knee WHICH IS ALL BETTER NOW. I know it just takes continued training and draining and eventually the knee will strengthen up. I spent most of 2008 draining the right knee in the same manner and now it's fine.

In any case, a legit 26" vertical ain't anything impressive, but I'm happy to be able to do it after all the deconditioning and with my Olympic squat only at 325.

hamburgerfan

10-12-2011, 05:41 PM

Take very seriously the need for explosive work with all that volume, however. Very seriously. Power and speed go away if you only train for long time under tension.

Not that I was ever even remotely fast or explosive, but in my second week of the base mesocycle, I think I'm already noticing this. Do you think that's one of the purposes of the switching phase? And how important is speed for powerlifting anyway?

Gary Gibson

10-15-2011, 06:28 PM

Not that I was ever even remotely fast or explosive, but in my second week of the base mesocycle, I think I'm already noticing this. Do you think that's one of the purposes of the switching phase? And how important is speed for powerlifting anyway?
Depends whom you ask. But why wouldn't you want speed? Strength without speed is like having an 11" cock while being three feet tall and ugly: impressive but not convertible to real world use. The difference between being fast and strong (powerful) instead of just strong is like the difference between a fired cannonball and a bowled bowling ball.

I used to be a real grinder. All my heavy lifts were slow. I noticed the more natural athletes I lifted with moved even over 90% fairly quickly. I wanted to be like that. Not just strong but powerful. And it doesn't even take that much time to work it. Benedikt Magnusson sprints and box jumps for his explosive work and recommends most lifters do it too. I do much the same, except I just do standing verticals (often with bands) instead of box jumps now. I do very short sprints after deadlifts. I also do some clapping push-ups occasionally. I think it is helping my PL total a bit. The heavy weights are moving more quickly out of the bottom. My maxes are moving so quickly that I often (wrongly) assume that they aren't really my maxes and then get completely stopped when I add 5 or 10 lbs to the bar.

jmoye

10-15-2011, 06:52 PM

That's good stuff man. But would dynamic effort work not accomplish the same goal?

Gary Gibson

10-15-2011, 07:51 PM

That's good stuff man. But would dynamic effort work not accomplish the same goal?
Maximal effort jumping, sprinting and throwing are simply more dynamic than any barbell work could be, unless you throw the barbell which I do not recommend for bench and squat.

(Yet cleaning, jerking and snatching are indeed throwing and catching the barbell and if you want to be good at throwing heavy barbells and catching them, you have to practice throwing around those big weights and moving yourself around and under the barbell at high speed.)

The classic "quick" lifts work the middle part of the strength-speed curve. The big three powerlifts obviously work the far end of low speed, high force. I find that working the other end of low force and high speed is the perfect compliment. You could use the big three with light weight to move fast, but why would you? The big three make you stop toward the end instead of "pushing through" the way jumping, sprinting and throwing do. Plus the barbell is meant to be loaded so it's heavy. If you want to work on speed, remove the weight and use movements that don't have you decelerating (the opposite of going faster) toward the end.

Despite my improvements in low force/high speed and the improved speed on my heavy powerlifts, I still rather suck at weightlifting, but I suspect that's largely a matter of sucky proportions; long arms make for a very long second pull with horrible placement of the bar relative to the optimal position near the hips at the start. I still do some snatching, however, just to work the middle part of that strength-speed curve. But most of my energy is spent on the opposite ends: squatting, benching, pulling on one end and jumping, sprinting and clapping push ups on the other.

Carlos Daniel

10-15-2011, 08:49 PM

Maximal effort jumping, sprinting and throwing are simply more dynamic than any barbell work could be, unless you throw the barbell which I do not recommend for bench and squat.

(Yet cleaning, jerking and snatching are indeed throwing and catching the barbell and if you want to be good at throwing heavy barbells and catching them, you have to practice throwing around those big weights and moving yourself around and under the barbell at high speed.)

The classic "quick" lifts work the middle part of the strength-speed curve. The big three powerlifts obviously work the far end of low speed, high force. I find that working the other end of low force and high speed is the perfect compliment. You could use the big three with light weight to move fast, but why would you? The big three make you stop toward the end instead of "pushing through" the way jumping, sprinting and throwing do. Plus the barbell is meant to be loaded so it's heavy. If you want to work on speed, remove the weight and use movements that don't have you decelerating (the opposite of going faster) toward the end.

Despite my improvements in low force/high speed and the improved speed on my heavy powerlifts, I still rather suck at weightlifting, but I suspect that's largely a matter of sucky proportions; long arms make for a very long second pull with horrible placement of the bar relative to the optimal position near the hips at the start. I still do some snatching, however, just to work the middle part of that strength-speed curve. But most of my energy is spent on the opposite ends: squatting, benching, pulling on one end and jumping, sprinting and clapping push ups on the other.

If you do jump squats, you don't have to decelerate at the top.

jmoye

10-15-2011, 08:58 PM

Interesting take on things. Thanks for the explanation.

Would be fun to get some throwing in.

That goes with the Ricky Bruch movie when they looked at a sample of his muscle and it was something like 80:20 fast:slow, which the doc said was on the high end but higher is extremely rare.

Gary Gibson

10-15-2011, 09:26 PM

If you do jump squats, you don't have to decelerate at the top.
Jump squats didn't do dick for me, but they did increase the load that I had to land with which wasn't exactly good for my beat up knees. Light band resistance with jumping was infinitely more productive in terms of making me faster which means I jumped higher. Bands are usually used on the squat or box squat, but light band resistance is the perfect compliment to jumping.

Gary Gibson

11-25-2011, 12:09 PM

2011-11-25
Back Squat, high bar, no belt, w/ knee SLEEVES
45 x 12
135 x 5
225 x 3
275 x 2
315 x 1
345 x 1
315 x 1, x 2, x 1, x 2, x 1, x 2, x 1, x 2, x 1, x 2, x 1, x 2
325 x 1

Deadlift, conventional, no belt
315 x 3
365 x 1
405 x 0
(What was I thinking?! Exhausted from all those squats...)

Bilateral Lying Leg Curl 60 x 10 x 3

345 was trouble. Spend 5 minutes trying to convince myself to keep going, but thought better of it. Decided that today was the day to start upping the volume with those 2-rung ladders. Got 18 reps with 90%+ as opposed to 2-5 had I gone straight sets. Felt I mastered 315 so tried 325 after I got unexpectedly got all six of my ladders. I am ready to attempt 325 next squat session. I want to sneak up on my current max and end up doing that max for ladders. I am stalled at ~350 and need more volume or frequency. Exhausted and stupidly tried to deadlift. Knees felt great. Stretched afterward. Left knee still a little effused and just a little tight at extreme flexion. Dosing with Voltaren and hoping won't have to drain tonight.

Gary Gibson

11-26-2011, 06:37 PM

2011-11-26
Sprints x 40 yards x 5.61 to 5.24 seconds

Bench Press
45 x 12
95 x 6
135 x 5
185 x 5
205 x 2
225 x 1
235 x 1
240 x 1
245 x 1
215 x 1, x 2, x 3, x 1, x 2, x 3, x 1, x 2, x 1

DB Row 80 x 6 x 4
Pull Up x 6
Standing Bar Curl 75 x 6, 80 x 5

-Timed at under 5.5 seconds. Former track guy said I could get below 5 seconds now if I just upped some basic short sprint skills. Raising back immediately now and slowing down a lot after the 30 yard mark.
-Surprised to get that 245 today after struggling to hit 235 again for the past month. Thought I was going to get all the ladders with 215 today. Next time.

Gary Gibson

11-27-2011, 07:43 PM

2011-11-27
Clean Grip Overhead Squat from Snatch 95 x 3, 135 x 2
Back Squat, high bar, no belt, with knee sleeves
135 x 6
225 x 4
275 x 3
315 x 2
345 x 0

Power Snatch complexes
95 x 3
115 x 2
135 x 1
145 x 1
135 x 1
135 x 1 + Overhead Squat x 1
135 x 1 + Overhead Squat x 2
135 x 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2

Dunk Practice on 9'10" Rim
From Standing: touches, grabs no hangs, dunk squishy ball,
From Run off two legs: dunk tennis ball x 4

Sprint Starts x 15 yards x 6

-Dedicated stretching. Straight leg palms to floors and hold, unilateral quad stretch, Cossacks.
-This was mostly what I planned to do for dynamic lower body day, but I started out hoping to hit squat ladders again. Not nearly recovered enough. Treated squats as low volume heavy stimulation for power work and moved on after I failed with 345. Probably need another day of rest before upper body vertical plane (press, chin) ladders (and sprints!) and a couple days beyond that before I'm ready to tackle squat ladders again. But I like the idea of low volume squats on speed/power day just to keep the squats in practice during the week.
-Unable to draw any fluid at all last night and knee feeling empty today. Taking naproxen sodium and still applying Voltaren.

Gary Gibson

11-28-2011, 07:16 PM

2011-11-28
Pogo Hops
Tuck Jumps

This is work to make ankle tendons stiffer and better able to transmit the energy from hip and knee extensors into the ground and back. This is changing the flat tires, not putting in a bigger engine. (Sprints do this, too, while also working the engine.) Stretched. Too tired for much else today. Press (130 lbs) and chin (45 lbs) 3-rung ladders tomorrow, squat (330 lbs) 2-rung ladders Thursday.

Gary Gibson

11-29-2011, 07:48 PM

2011-11-29
Standing Press out of Rack
95 x 5
115 x 3
125 x 1
130 x 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1 (total = 22)

Early morning airport run. Didn't think to bring bag with chin/dip belt, but decided to swing by gym on the way back and get the presses done. Did way better than I thought I would, completed three 3-rung ladders with 130 and then some. Ready for 135 next week. This rate of progress for the rest of this 6-8 week cycle would have me at a bodyweight press by my birthday.

Chin x 3 x 2, w/ 45 x 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1 (total = 19)

Sprints 40 yds x 4, from walking start x 3, best times 5.24 and 5.19 seconds

-As with the presses, these chins took about 30 minutes. Last triple was really hard. Last single even harder. Not quite grindy, but slow. I think I should only add 5 lbs next time.
-Felt slow and tight on the sprints. Just too dark with too many people at the gym and going in and out. Just couldn't relax. Still did as well or better than last time (though hand timing with different timing partners will create some measuring error).
-A routine has taken shape. 1)Squat or Deadlift plus assistance. 2)Bench plus assistance. 3)Front squat and Oly variants. 4)Press and Chin. Finish sessions with some jumping and/or sprinting. Take days off as needed (fer instance, bench the day right after squats shouldn't usually be a problem). As for progression, the total volume is a target range. If I get within the lower portion of that range, I'll make a smaller jump; If I get well over it, I'll make a bigger jump. If I'm far below it, I'll stay with the weight till I get within the range. Jumps for presses are 0-5 lbs, for bench and chin 5-10 lbs and for squats and deads 10-15 lbs.
-Knees doing amazingly well. All that inflammation was very likely because I just wasn't giving the joint time to recover between high volume sessions.

Gary Gibson

12-01-2011, 07:29 PM

2011-12-01
Back Squat, high bar, no belt
45 x 15
135 x 8
225 x 4
275 x 2
315 x 2
335 x 1
345 x 1
355 x miss
315 x 1, 2, 3...1, 2, 3...1, 2, 2...1, 2* (total = 20)

Stiff Legged Deadlift
225 x 5
275 x 3
315 x 2
345 x 1
365 x 1
385 x miss
335 x 5

Wanted to do power snatches + overhead squats as a warm up, but it was way too crowded in the corner by the racks where's there's normally a little breathing room.
--Re: Third session stuck at 345. Knew I didn't have 355 in me on the squat. 345 did move a little faster this week and I probably could have gotten 350. Maybe I just need to accept 5 lbs every week or two. Still would lead to more than 100 lbs on squat in a year. I did handle 315 much better this time and for more reps per top rung and more reps overall.
--Tried triples this week figuring maybe I need a little more time under tension on some of those sets in order to induce some growth. Seems to be working for press, bench and chins.
--*Absolute grind...going for all three ladders with 320 next week after getting 350 on the top single.

P.S. Dear body, if you don't start moving on the squat again, I'll be forced to engage in Smolov. Is that what you really want?

Gary Gibson

12-02-2011, 09:25 PM

2011-12-02
Power Snatch
135 x 1 x 3
140 x 1
145 x 1
150 x 1 x 3
155 x 0
145 x 1 x 3 (alternated w/ High bar squat, no knee sleeves 135 x 4, 225 x 2, 315 x 1 - hard)

Bench Press
135 x 5
185 x 3
205 x 2
225 x 1
235 x 1
245 x 1
225 x 1, x 1 (-hard)

Standing Bar Curl 85 x 6 x 2

Sprint Starts x 15-20 yd x 6

-Snatches made me too tired for bench tonight, but I really had a jonesing to snatch since last night. Curls getting better.
-Only got 15 cc from knee today day after squats. Feeling better overall. Kept sleeves off tonight.

Gary Gibson

12-03-2011, 10:37 PM

Okay enough. Squat really isn't moving on this attempt at something like linear progression. Will try to get it to nudge toward my personal best of 365 and then hit Smolov in the New Year. I will do speed/power work with jumps and sticking point half squats in the switching phase and then actually do the Feduleyev intensive phase. I would start now, but I'm going to be doing too much traveling during December to commit to four day/week squatting. So I'll use December to keep my winners running (press, chin, curl) and try to get my squat a little closer to my best.

Warming up will include power snatches and clean grip overhead squats (these really ingrain good high bar squat positions). Auxiliary lifts should be kept to a minimum, I know, but I found higher rep leg curls a good compliment to Smolov last time around. I also like the idea of light stiff-legged deadlifts, mostly as a weighted stretch at the end. Very short sprint starts have also proven a good way to wrap up training days. As long as I keep them under 20 yards. Knee wraps have also proven to be a lifesaver. They prevent the knees from getting beat up with the volume and frequency. I also like the feeling of wraps OVER sleeves, wrapping over the sleeves for work sets and keeping the sleeves on for the entire session.

Power Snatch
Clean Grip Overhead Squat

Back Squat, high bar, knee wraps, no belt

High rep Lying Leg Curl alternated with LIGHT Stiff Legged Deadlift
Sprint Starts

As for upper body, I'd want to maintain press and chins more than bench press (Could focus on bench and deadlift in another cycle). My press and chins are progressing well right now with ladders. I'm doing 135 for sets in the press and adding 55 lbs for sets in the chin next planned session. I'd like to be up to 150 for the press and 70 for the chins by the time I embark on Smolov. Just looking to maintain them there for the 11 weeks of Smolov-Feduleyev, either after squats or on off days (Wednesday and Fridays). Curls are progressing well, too, and I could be at sets with 100 or more by January and would definitely keep in sets of curls at least one day per week during the squat specialization (after the 10x3 on Sundays).

I power snatched 150 -- my previous best ever single -- for three singles last night, but missed 155. But I dream of getting at least one 165 snatch before I embark on Smolov. Whatever I hit, I'll be using 95% of it in the warm ups.

So for the next thirty days till January: Oly Squat to single with 365, Press ladders to 150, Chin ladders to +70, Standing Bar Curl to 105 x 5, Power Snatch to 165.

Gary Gibson

12-04-2011, 06:32 PM

2011-12-04
Snatch
135 x 1 x 3 (high catch)
145 x 1 x 4 (high catch) x 1 (medium catch), x 1 (low catch)

Back Squat, high bar, no belt
135 x 6
195 x 5
235 x 4
275 x 3
295 x 2
315 x 1
335 x 1 (knee sleeves)

Jumps
-Standing vertical x 3 x 2 to 25"
-Standing broad jump x 3 x 3 to 7'10"

-Fatigue is a great way to improve the speed of the third pull. As I got tired, I couldn't pull the bar as high and found getting lower to be the most natural thing in the world. My last rep was a fluid, textbook full squat snatch.
-Jumping distances down a good bit due to fatigue. Probably a waste of time to do them after classic lifts and squats.

Gary Gibson

12-05-2011, 08:07 PM

2011-12-05
Standing Press out of Rack
45 x 10
95 x 6
115 x 3
125 x 1
135 x 1, 2, 3...1, 2, 3...0...1, 2, 3...1, 2, 1 (total = 22)

Chin
+0 x 3
+55 x 1, 2, 3...1, 2, 3...1, 2, 3...1 (total = 19)

Short sprints, walking start x 20 yd x 6

Gary Gibson

12-06-2011, 07:56 PM

2011-12-06
Snatch, high catch
135 x 1 x 3
145 x 1 x 2
150 x 1
155 x 1 *
160 x miss

Back Squat, high bar, TK knee sleeves, no belt
45 x 12
135 x 6
195 x 4
245 x 3
285 x 2
315 x 1
335 x 1
350 x 1 *
355 x miss

Jerk out of rack, high catch
45 x 5
135 x 1 x 3
155 x 1
165 x 1
175 x 1
185 x 1 (pressout), x 1 (pressout), x miss

Short Sprints 20 yds, walking starts x 4

--* All-time personal best snatch high or low catch. And local maximum on squat. My power snatch is ~46% of my back squat and my power jerk and presumably clean are about 54%.
-- If my arms were normal length for my height (about three inches shorter each), I would have gotten these without pressout. Of I could have dropped lower. Personal best here too.
--Tommy Kono sleeves are amazing. Knees couldn't be warmer.
--Preceded session with dunk practice on 9'10" rim. Got tennis ball and mini-basketball, not soccer ball. Running 2-legged Jump only 1-2" higher than standing now.
--Drained 24 cc from left knee. Still less than usual and encouraging considering all the jumping, snatching and squatting from today.

Gary Gibson

12-07-2011, 08:21 PM

Uff da. Knees have both been feeling off all day. The old (and initial) injury in the right knee from 2008 was acting up. Right knee seemed a little full. Left definitely puffy. Drained 32 cc from the left and 24 from the right. I had to get into a full squat and make the right bulge in order to provide the pressure to get the fluid moving.

I'm rubbing both Voltaren and ibuprofen gel on both knees these days. Considering all the use I put these knees to (jumping, sprinting, squatting) and considering that they've proven that they'll fill up just from me standing or walking too long, I'd say that this isn't that bad.

Gary Gibson

12-08-2011, 08:11 PM

2011-12-08
Jerk out of Rack, high catch
45 x 3
135 x 2
155 x 1
165 x 1
175 x 1
185 x 1
190 x 1
(Walked out with 195 and thought better of it)

Back Squat, high bar, TK knee sleeves, no belt
135 x 5
205 x 4
265 x 3
295 x 2
315 x 1
335 x 1
345 x 1
355 x 1
325 x 1, 2...1, 2...1, 1

Stiff Legged Deadlift 225 x 5, 275 x 3, 315 x 1, 345 x 3 + 1
Standing Bar Curl 95 x 4 1/2, 90 x 5

Voltaren and ibuprofen gel all day. Knee felt unstable today, but fine during squats. Ready to add Rehbands or wraps, but never felt I needed it. More gel tonight. Best jerk ever from what I can recall and with almost zero knee dip.

Gary Gibson

12-10-2011, 08:01 PM

Having serious knee trouble.

I believe I really mucked up both knees with the dunk practice a couple days ago. Landing after hanging from the rim (only 9'10") must have caused quite a bit of trauma. Last night I stood for several hours and drank at the company Christmas party. That night at the hotel I had to drain 40cc from each knee. Today both knees are incredibly achy and swollen. Upping the squat frequency probably didn't help either.

I'm especially upset because the knees had been doing so well. I hope I can get back to the level of health they'd reached. I need to be more careful in considering total stress on them in a given period. Upping squats must mean decreasing jumps for example.

Squats are out this week. I'll restart next Friday with 315-335 and try to run at 375, I'll devote my energies to the press, chin, bench and curl for the next two weeks. Particularly happy with my progress on the press (135 for reps) and the curl (100 lbs for reps soon).

Update: long walk from hotel to bus terminal for trip to Port Authority. Knees were painful and weak after both legs of multi-hour bus trips. Drained 42cc of usual stuff from left knee and 28cc of orangish stuff from the right. Range of motion back now and pain greatly diminished. Wearing the Konos to bed tonight to fight refill.

Squat went up 5 lbs. Was it the slightly increased frequency...or was it just because I finally accepted a smaller jump? Probably the latter. Although a low volume squat day during the week may still be a good idea. The sensitivity of my knees to stress complicates things.

Update: drained 20 cc from left. Used about 15 minutes of coaxing to get out as much fluid as possible. Drained 15cc from right. Knees felt extremely unstable afterward, however, and I immediately reapplied the knee bands.

Gary Gibson

12-12-2011, 09:45 PM

2011-12-12
Drained again last night and feeling achy and tired this morning. But slightly better than last night. Felt better again after a nap on the plane. When I got home I drained 26cc from left and 40cc (!) from right. Knees at last feeling almost normal in terms of fluid levels and overall integrity. I can squat down again tonight for the first time in days. Right MCL (site of the injury that started all this) still feeling stressed and tight. Going to try to stick to my original plan of not squatting this week and not squatting to max next week Friday.

Trying to figure out where I went wrong and how to prevent a recurrence. Obviously landing improperly from jumping had a lot to do with it. Also squat frequency and the fact that I kept going at 90% and over every time I squatted. I need to land better when I jump (amortize the energy by dropping into a crouch), watch the total loading of squats and jumps, cut squat frequency back down and perhaps spend a lot more time in the higher rep ranges with lower weight in order to do some tissue-building work.

Edit: Left knee still full. Went back and got another 20cc out of it, which makes more sense. Total of 46cc for the night.
Going to try pause squats for a while. Used them as part of last couple of warm ups. Much less stressful on knee. And they've been recommended by two guys I trust.

Gorlox22

12-12-2011, 11:08 PM

Hate it about your knees man. Youre strong as hell, keep at it. Hopefully the paused squats will help you out...I've never heard of anyone doing them.

hamburgerfan

12-12-2011, 11:17 PM

Are those paused on a box or just paused free squats?

Gary Gibson

12-13-2011, 10:29 AM

Hate it about your knees man. Youre strong as hell, keep at it. Hopefully the paused squats will help you out...I've never heard of anyone doing them.

Thanks. Ricky Dale Crane designed a program several decades ago that include paused squats: Two sets of regular squats, remove fifty pounds then do two sets of paused squats. Pavel T in Beyond Bodybuilding gave the details. Marty Gallagher prescribed the same routine to Kirk Karwoski. Here's the excerpt. http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/progressive-overload-cycling/

Paul Carter of Lift-Run-Bang also recommends them. http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2011/08/5-tips-to-improving-your-raw-squat.html#comment-form

Are those paused on a box or just paused free squats?

No box.

Drained 15 cc of fairly bloody fluid from right knee again this morning. Now I'm doing sets of slow paused Hindu squats and knees are feeling better. I think high rep work will be crucial to my continuing with leg training. Unweighted/Hindu squats, leg extensions (also recommended by Paul Carter), leg curls (LanceSTS over at Adarq.org recommended these), terminal knee extensions maybe even abductor and adductor machine for the hips eventually. I think at least one day a week, perhaps up to three or four should be devoted to this very light, repetitive work.

I've tried pausing during warm ups and it felt great. I'm hoping pausing will allow me to keep squatting in relative health and actually boost my strength for the regular squat when I go back to it. I don't know if avoiding using the stretch reflex forever is ideal for continuing to build strength, or else the pause squat would be used more widely. But I'm sure it makes a great accessory and even a substitute for a while. But the rebound at the bottom is something that has to be trained to be used to full effect.

Gary Gibson

12-13-2011, 09:21 PM

2012-12-13
Press out of Rack
45 x 10
95 x 5
115 x 3
140 x 1*, 2, 3...miss
(*The bar I used for first rep might have weighed 55 lbs so that might have been 150. It was incredibly hard to press.)

Chin
+0 x 3
+45 x 2
+65 x 1, 2, 3...1...1...1

Hindu Squat x 5 x 5 (Done this morning)
Leg Extension light x 50 x 3
Sitting Leg Curl light x 50 x 3

Knees did feel a bit more solid after those high rep leg curls.

This all makes me wonder about trends and "lost" training knowledge. Back before the Internet, powerlifters often did isolation work, at least from what I've read. Nowadays, everything's all "Bulgarian" and minimalist specialization, but there seems to be a lot of wisdom in including bodybuilding/isolation work, especially as a trainee ages.

I think we all assume that the main lifts will take care of everything, but that ain't necessarily so. The main lifts can really beat up the joints and connective tissue without developing them, especially as things get heavier. It's high rep work that beefs up the connective tissue.

And also training more often over time may not be for every trainee. Those blessed with unusual resilience and recovery (and aided by drugs) may thrive on it, but a lot of us may be better off cutting the frequency over time.

Things I'm going to implement or keep up:
-squatting lighter more often, saving heavy low rep work for every second or third cycle;
-usually squatting only once per week;
-high rep isolation work, especially leg curls;
-foam rolling and stretching.

My knees were finally stabilizing. I could sprint again and jump high enough to grab rim. This lapse in knee health really has me bummed out and I want my knees to get resilient enough to prevent it from happening again.

Gary Gibson

12-14-2011, 10:02 AM

2011-12-14
It's the next day and my knees are feeling way better than they should be at this point. I think it was the leg curls.

We keep hearing how we need to balance upper body pushing (pressing) with upper body pulling (chinning/rowing) in order to avoid imbalances that could easily lead to pain and dysfunction of the shoulder. Yet we're told that leg curls are a waste of time...as if the relatively delicate load-bearing joint of the knee doesn't need some balance.

I've spent a couple of years training the extensors of the knee to get much, much stronger. Meanwhile I haven't trained the flexing function at all. The common wisdom now says that it's fine just to train the proximal function of the hamstrings (hip extension). But I think a horrible imbalance has built up in my case by avoiding the distal hamstring function (knee flexion).

I suspect the high rep leg curls from last night created some residual tonus that restored a semblance of balance. That's my theory right now anyway. It's too soon for the curls to have induced any benefit from actual thickening of the connective tissue.

I went searching for a sensible argument to corroborate my sentiments.

http://www.physiqology.com/ask-the-expert/are-leg-curls-valid-hamstring-exercise/1/

ARE LEG CURLS A VALID EXERCISE TO STRENGTHEN THE HAMSTRINGS?

Q: I am curious about the choice of leg curls to strengthen the hamstrings. Why bother? Isn’t deadlifting enough? Eric Cressey says...

"Strengthening the posterior chain with closed chain movements like deadlifts also reduces the risk of injury. Weak hamstrings are a serious risk factor for anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injuries, patellofemoral pain, and a host of other problems in the knee, hip, ankle, and lower back. Conversely, leg curls simply won’t get the job done because they don’t require co-contraction of the glutes and hamstrings. They’re open chain and occur in a fixed line of motion. Our body is far smarter than some piece of inflexible equipment."

DEADLIFTS VS LEG CURLS - WHICH IS BETTER?

Whenever you read anything, you have to evaluate it within the context that it was said. That quote is from an article espousing the deadlift as a superior posterior chain exercise. And it is. Typically, the population that will read that type of content is not interested in reading about general preparation. General preparation is inherently boring, especially when compared to the relative glamour associated with hefting 800 lbs off the floor while blood shoots from your nose. While there are some truths to what he says, the article addresses one part of training, without looking at the whole picture.

Let's start with what is completely accurate. It is true that training the hamstrings with hip extension work and closed chain movements like the deadlift prevents injury... in some cases. It is also accurate that strong hamstrings help to prevent knee injuries. It is furthermore very true that deadlifting is a superior exercise for training the posterior chain. To understand the value of leg curls, you have to understand the dual anatomical function of the hamstrings, the law of specificity, and the difference between general and specific preparation.

The Law of Joint Integrity
Strong Agonists Lead to Strong Antagonists – The Law of Joint Integrity
Ultimately, a stronger hamstring at the level of the knee allows for stronger quadriceps, because of the law of joint integrity, which states that the body will shut down continued strength development on one side of the joint if there is not enough strength on the other side to maintain relative balance. From a standpoint of deadlifting then, leg curls actually make a great deal of sense, because of the secondary indirect contribution to greater quadriceps strength-potential.

The Law of Specificity
The above is an example of the concept of specificity – that form follows function. So, though it is true that a deadlift competitor would never approach the limits of his ability by performing only leg curls, to say that they are ineffective hamstring exercise makes no sense. They are half of the hamstring equation, and address an entirely separate function of the hamstrings from pulls.

General vs Specific Preparation
Finally, there is a continuum in performance training between general preparation, or structural balance - what the French and French Canadians call musculation, or "general strength training that is specific to the purpose of the competition" - and specific preparation, or peaking. General preparation is concerned with exercise that improves the structural integrity of the system, or balance; specific preparation is concerned with taking that new, balanced platform to a higher level of performance. Long term planning demands that attention be paid to both of these aspects of training, or injury or overtraining invariably occurs.

In the example of the deadlifter, then, leg curls could be a useful general preparation exercise. During specific preparation, however, they would not make such sense. The more advanced the lifter becomes, and the closer he gets to the upper level of his weight class, and the closer he is to competition, the less important leg curls become.

If the athlete were a sprinter, however, the same rule would not apply. In running, the hamstrings serve as both active knee flexors and hip extensors. As such, leg curls become much more important.

To understand the concept, think of the sprinter, running down the track. Now take away the posterior muscles that cross the knee (we're talking about the hamstrings) and see what happens when there is no eccentric force to counteract the powerful concentric forces of knee extension from the vastus medialis. Indeed, sprinters at the world class level report less incidence of hamstring pulls when leg curls are added to their strength training routines, so leg curls are actually, depending upon the sport you are involved in, a very appropriate general and specific preparation exercise.

--Mark Diaz

I think getting my (completely raw) Olympic squat to double bodyweight while completely ignoring knee flexion exercises has left me ill prepared for other functions like running and jumping, and has left my knees incredibly vulnerable to injury and chronic pain.

One must keep in mind that I'm a delicate reed with small, sensitive joints (i.e. the kind of guy who wasn't designed by nature to be squatting even this paltry amount of weight) so I'm more inclined to joint injury from imbalances. Others may be able to get to relatively high squat numbers without any knee flexion work and not have as much joint trouble. So arguments of "well, I got to triple bodyweight squat without any knee flexion work and I'm fine" don't apply. I'm not structurally designed to cope with heavy weight training and I do other joint-intensive things (landing from jumps, sprinting) besides weight training. A structurally suited trainee who only weightlifts, squats and deadlifts will not need the preparation I do.

In short, I need knee flexion work. I need high rep isolation work, especially for my knees -- and perhaps in the hips, too -- since the squat is the lift I would like to take to my highest potential.

Knees feeling pretty good throughout day, but a little creaky toward the end. Drained 20cc from left, 22cc from right.

LeonidasfromSparta

12-15-2011, 05:03 AM

Gary, I definitely think you should try leg curls. Bill Starr himself suggested their use (and of leg extensions) to support the musculature and ligaments around the knee.
But the most important thing here IMO, is that you needed to change something. Obviously the way things were going, you needed to fix something. In the large scheme of things, I think that health (and in your case knee health) should be more important than your squat numbers. I don't want to sound to pessimistic here, but those are my thoughts right now.

I'm looking forward to see your progress on your knee rehab through leg curls, or with any other means necessary. I'd again suggest Glucosamine & Chondroitin. They might help, along with the other things.

Gary Gibson

12-15-2011, 12:45 PM

2011-12-15
Lying Leg Curls 70 x 8 x 4 (heavy hamstrings work)
Seated Leg Extension 50 x 50
Seated Leg Curl 60 x 100
Seated Leg Extension 50 x 50
Seated Leg Curl 60 x 100

I will regularly do high rep blood flow work for the knees along with knee flexion work. I will also regularly use high rep isolation work to warm up and cool down for the squat.

Gary, I definitely think you should try leg curls. Bill Starr himself suggested their use (and of leg extensions) to support the musculature and ligaments around the knee.
But the most important thing here IMO, is that you needed to change something. Obviously the way things were going, you needed to fix something. In the large scheme of things, I think that health (and in your case knee health) should be more important than your squat numbers. I don't want to sound to pessimistic here, but those are my thoughts right now.

I'm looking forward to see your progress on your knee rehab through leg curls, or with any other means necessary. I'd again suggest Glucosamine & Chondroitin. They might help, along with the other things.

If I sit down and think about it, I realize my knees simply can't handle what I'm asking them to do. So they are chronically full of fluid because the supportive structures need to be buttressed by the pressure the fluid creates. I'm guessing I need to beef up the connective tissue as well as enhance the hamstrings pull on the joint to counteract that of the quadriceps. The best ways to achieve that are probably heavy knee flexion and lots of high rep knee extension and flexion. We'll see.

I'm skipping squats entirely this week and then trying a cycle or two of pauses and high reps. Now is no time to beat the joint up with heavy weight and bouncing.

ZKP

12-15-2011, 01:38 PM

In true Gary form "Throw in some leg extensions/curls" turns into 300+ reps. Bless your heart. My own training has evolved quite a bit in the last few years, primarily from a disdain of how things got too complicated. Like anybody who's been lifting for any period of time, you're figuring out what works best for you and I have to admit I truly enjoy reading the process and really appreciate your Tate-esque "blast or dust" mentality about anything; be it milk, squats, or leg extensions. I will only throw in two ideas which are to serve as food for thought.

1) Wear wraps on all your work sets. All of them. We're not going to the Olympics and I'd feel really stupid having to pay for a fucking knee replacement or two in my late thirties. They don't have to be PL tight, just wrap the fuckers. Going for that thickened knee integrity over time by training uber raw is over at this point. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
2) Jumping. Fuck jumping. Jumping can be productive, but you have to look at the cost benefit ratio. I have a good friend who's a pro volleyball player (no Homo) and his knees are fucking trashed worse that any athlete I've ever known. Of course that's aside from epic, one bad hit, tibia blasting out the side of your leg, torn ACL shit, but you get the picture. Jumping up and down is hard on you. At the very least try to eliminate some of the negative(landing) and spare whatever is left that you can.

I'm sure you've thought of these ideas but I thought I'd throw them in there anyway. Keep up the good work and remember that the particular strength of your training lies in your ability to use discretion and think for yourself about these things. You illustrate this wonderfully and I look forward to reading more. Good Luck

Gary Gibson

12-17-2011, 06:20 PM

ZKP

12-17-2011, 06:35 PM

It's not about admitting defeat. It's about finding a way to train which will allow you to do it for the next twenty or thirty years. Thats what makes us genetically less gifted the chance to be great.....time. It won't be optimal(neither is mine) but I'll be fucked if I cant shovel my own drive or teach my kid to do squats or cant lift because I tried to pour too much of every type of training in too soon. Fuck defeat... Prioritize. You got this. you just have to make a plan that works and thats what you're doing. Good Lick and keep it up.

Gary Gibson

12-19-2011, 10:37 PM

LeonidasfromSparta

12-20-2011, 04:24 AM

blowdpanis

12-20-2011, 06:47 AM

Drained 33cc from left, 10cc from right.

If this refilling is just from inflamed synovial linings from overuse, then rest should take care of it. But it's not. Is it possible that I dug so deep a hole that it will take months or years to calm down the inflammation?

I'm a little curious what would happen if you simply stopped draining the knees. Admittedly this might suck at first, but instead of draining every time things go wonky, you might want to try...not...draining?

I'd actually be curious if you draining your knees is somehow perpetuating the cycle of inflammation you have going on.

Gary Gibson

12-20-2011, 07:19 AM

Gary, in no way my post (and I don't think ZKP's post) had the purpose to put you down. I just think you'll have to try different things until you find what exacerbates the knees - is it squats in general, high volume, high intensity, jumping, running? For the moment I'd just train around the injury - train the upper body (time to get those gunzzz bro). When knees stop filling, add some deads, and see how it goes from there.
Again, pull yourself together, and train smart. But you have gone too far in this game to quit now.
Thanks, LfS, I never took you post in a bad way at all. My fear is that I will "lose my legs". I took ten weeks off from squatting this year after a lower leg injury and lost almost 100 lbs off my squat (high bar, no belt/wraps down from solid 365 to shaky 275). My knees still required draining during that time, too. Granted I was doing some vertical jumps, but very low volume and frequency and that was only after not jumping for six weeks because of my lower leg injury.

I'm a little curious what would happen if you simply stopped draining the knees. Admittedly this might suck at first, but instead of draining every time things go wonky, you might want to try...not...draining?

I'd actually be curious if you draining your knees is somehow perpetuating the cycle of inflammation you have going on.
Good question. I have tried not draining. In the past that would just cause the fluid to stick around. It would accumulate and get to the point where I couldn't walk without pain. This could be my body's way of trying to keep me quiet so it could heal, I admit. In fact, you have a really good point in that draining does indeed beget a cycle of excess fluid production. That's how things started with the left knee which was a little full. After the first time I drained it the fluid came back with a vengeance and has been doing so ever since. The right knee had been quite for over a year when it began to fill again a couple weeks ago. I started to drain it and it too has produced excess fluid since. There's clearly a correlation, and you'd think that that would be enough for me to knock off the draining. But the fluid doesn't seem to go down on its own.

That's how things went with the right knee after the ligament damage that got all this started. I assumed that it was my draining that eventually led to the knee quieting down after a year. But the knee may simply have healed up. I kept draining it, however, because the effusion was there for months. The muscles of my right leg had wasted away and I was in constant pain. As depressing as things are now, I am far, far better off than I was with the knee effusions of 2008 and 2009.

It's hard to say die and I'm thinking of ways to squat at least a little bit. Wraps take enormous pressure off the knees. They were why I was able to get through my last Smolov without a hint of knee pain (the Smolov before that I could barely get in and out of a the car for the entire month).

Thing is, I'm afraid of having my knees be happy during any layoff and then getting them immediately fucked up even from careful light work (wraps, pause, lower weight for higher reps). If I do decide to keep at it, I think lowering frequency in addition to all those other things will be key in allowing me to keep at this.

I read somewhere that those "Russian" routines like Sheiko are really designed to see who the genetically elite are for the sport. The elite survive and even thrive on that sort of frequency and loading and everyone else gets damaged. The further from elite the trainee, the more damage. I'm pretty fucking far from elite potential and I'm now paying for all that squatting I insisted on doing. My purpose in the training world is to serve as a warning. There is wisdom in the old school American way of lowering frequency over time so that eventually one is squatting only once per week or every other week. After the initial effusion in the right leg ceased, both knees were actually okay. It was repeated bouts of Smolov and attempts at daily squatting that got my left knee to start acting up again.