A Clarification

[stef]

by Mark Rippetoe


YNDTP



Full Article (http://startingstrength.com/articles/clarification_rippetoe.pdf)

Resources Page (http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/resources)

[MAD9692]

Rip,

You forgot the F.
YNDTFP

[Mr.City]

I lost 10 lbs the first couple weeks of doing SS as a 240 lb man. In fact, my weight has never gone beyond the 230-240 range on the program. It is not that difficult.

[Ryan Long]

This was needed. The kids were starting to act like they knew better than Uncle Rip.

[Patrick]

Perfect.

[Johnson]

5 stars

Thanks, Rip

[paguiob]

As a skinny guy, I didn't know when to stop GOMAD and ended up putting on much more fat than I should have. The good thing is that it came off without too much effort.

[JStrong]

What's the expression? "It's simple, not easy." There's a difference.

135 lb. gain in my squat in 3 months, and that's with a few silly mistakes along the way I could have avoided.

I would have been too intimidated to do some crazy Men's Health routine with 40 exercises. Heck, I was too intimidated to incorporate the power cleans.

But just dragging my ass to the gym more or less on schedule has made me very happy and much stronger in 12 weeks, with 5 basic lifts.

So, um, thanks.

[iskandar]

First time poster but long time lurker here.

Good article. It should be a reference point to some true novice.

But, in a way it's kind of sad that all of these need to be explained to such details.

What happened to the old "just get under the bar" adage?

[Mr.City]

I believe this will take care of a certain poster or two who believes the program can only be done by "getting fat."

[cervicornis]

Wonderful and much needed article. I love the fact that Rip's hypothetical novice lifter describes my experience to a tee.

I have a feeling that for every skinny, too-afraid-to-get-fat, not-doing-the-program novice lifter out there, there's also a chubby, over-20% body-fat-and-climbing, just-looking-for-an-excuse-to stuff-your-face novice lifter out there.

Unless you've added an ungodly amount of weight to the bar, if you find yourself in either category, here is your wake up call.

[ColoWayno]

Um, duh, I think I've been almost all of those guys. :(

[LaHabra]

That is real good article Rip, I will make sure that those I train read it. Shit, I'm going to make sure everyone I talk to reads it so they know why the fuck I've done what I've done.

Last year at this time I weighed 165 lbs and could not squat my body weight for five reps. On tuesday I weighed in at 215 and squatted 140kg 5x5 for my first volume day of the TM, after doing 100 straight burpees for being late on a work assignment. Any fluffiness is being handled through using common sense eating habits and some sled pulls/prowler pushes.

I could have made more progress and faster progress had I strictly stuck with the program from the onset, but all in all squatting 155kg for my last 3x5 was pretty sweet.

[Wayne Riddle]

Loved it. I was going to do a blog post this weekend about posts from people that say they are doing SS but it is obvious from their post/questions they aren't, or haven't even bothered to read the book.

[LeonidasfromSparta]

Thanks Rip. A useful article, especially for some much needed "benchmarks" on progression.

[damonwells]

Well done. We've made this required reading for the class.

[paguiob]

Maybe you already thought of this, but I think this would be a great addition to a 3rd edition SS as a supplemental chapter or subsection.

[homerj742]

Perfect.

Seriously. Basically mirrored my progress. I went from 150-200 in about 3.5/4 months GOMAD. the past few months I've been doing a bit less than half gallon of milk, cleaned up the carbs (used carb curfew I learned from John's Q&A). I'm still 200lbs, but my bf has decreased and strength has gone up.

[gamedog]

I'm glad I read this article and paid attention.

My mother, a nutritionist and aerobics instructor balked when I told her I started eating 4500 calories per day PLUS one gallon of whole milk on top of it. And don't get me wrong, it was HARD for ME to wrap my head around that.

But I told her this... I said "This will NOT give a healthy, active individual a heart attack. This will not make a healthy, active individual obese. Even a guy like me who was sedentary 4 months ago and who just quit smoking at the beginning of the year. This will help me avoid injury. This will help me fulfill my genetic potential. This will, in the short term, help me get to 'where I'm supposed to be.' And what is more healthy than that?"

And we both agreed. I admit, I had issues with it until I vocalized it. I had doubts... But I'm not sore this morning. I just finished up ALL my Friday work, here at the office EARLY. I have a shit-load of energy, and I'm going to lift this afternoon. And whilst lifting, I will add more weight on the bar. And when I'm done I won't feel dead, I'll feel good, energized and happy, just like last time. And I will not beat myself up for not having a physique like what Men's Health says I should, because not long from now, maybe two, or three years, I'll be grinding up the bones of those skinny, nancy-boy fitness models to make my bread.

[ZKP]

Lets hope teaching pigs to read and comprehend isn't in the same category as to sing......

[JAL]

I'd say this should be a postscript in a third edition of SS, but most of the guys to whom YNDTP applies haven't read the book anyway.

[Koalala]

First time poster but long time lurker here.

Good article. It should be a reference point to some true novice.

But, in a way it's kind of sad that all of these need to be explained to such details.

What happened to the old "just get under the bar" adage?

We have been told different so many times by people who were supposed to know about it than we do.
Now this Rippetoe tells something completely different its not weird we question wether this is the same bullshit we have been told.
Despite logic etc...

[Ian Kovtunovich]

If you think YNDTP, just ask yourself, WWRD?

[Patrick L.]

Most of the whiners say they have done the program but have not even bought the books...

Thumbs up

[Michael Liao]

First time poster but long time lurker here.

Good article. It should be a reference point to some true novice.

But, in a way it's kind of sad that all of these need to be explained to such details.

What happened to the old "just get under the bar" adage?

Better you Sir, than some phony bleeding-heart, chicken-necked, milquetoast, demagogue, that's for sure, indeed!

Isk, I don't mean to be contentious but I DO believe things need to be explained to such details.

The old "just get under the bar" adage was what kept me from true enlightenment for years.

It started with me as a skinnier kid than I'm now, so confounded with actual strength training that I diverted my energies over to the gimmicks before any solid foundation. Distractions of mine in the form of such things like serious gripper training at a body weight of 150 soaking wet; ala IronMind Enterprises. Can't say Dr. Strossen did too much for me there...

Super Squats (R), was a joke! The advice was solid but way too hyperbolic and allegorical for me; but a wispy breath of a boy, then...

Ohh well, thanks for the clarification Coach.

:)

[tallison]

"If you do the program as written, and you are a novice male between the ages of 18 and 35..."

I know there are sections in most of the books on populations outside this one, but I really think most of them deserve more and could probably sustain a book devoted to them (so, 1. women in the same age group, 2. children and early teens, and 3. Logan's Run survivors). As a mid-40's male reader, I'd love to read some examples of training trends with increasing age and recommendations (1/2 GOMAD? Just watch your waist?) all gathered into one solid narrative structure, put together by (or at least supervised in the putting together by) Mr. Rippetoe (as opposed to chasing it all over the boards and having to sift through a lot of loud, and variously informed opinion to find the good stuff). I'd love to be able to give book 2 to my niece and nephew and I imagine my sister and wife would be interested in 1 -- while my mom could likely benefit from more focus on the truly elderly in 3. Dude, you could take care of my entire Christmas list this year! Then, once they're hooked, there's the whole back-list of books to choose from for the next several birthdays and holidays... Now, if you also sold/recommended equipment and clothing...

[Kyle Aaron]

The link on the resources page doesn't take you to the pdf, I had to get it from the link in this thread.

"Okay kids, it has come to my attention that quite a few of you are not doing the program and then bitching about the results of The Program"

As Patrick said, you can't do the thing if you've not got the book. This is the bad side of the internet fame. Most of the insults and the praise come from people who've not got the whole story, because reading is hard, man.

You have to take the good with the bad, unfortunately.

Good article, though, lays things out nice and clearly. As the book does.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The link on the resources page doesn't take you to the pdf, I had to get it from the link in this thread.


Sure it does.

[JayvH]

I like the article and think it was really time for something like that. GOMAD is all over the place and also took me from 17% BF to 23%. Another diet approach would 've been more appropriate.

Anyway another question regarding the body fat ratio decrease doing the program. For a decrease of a 80kg BW guy with 20% BF to 19% he needs to add 4.85 kg of LBM while only gaining 0.15 kg fat adding up to a new BW of 85 kg. Is something like that doable with the correct food choice?

[WaWa Bird]

-

[the big chill]

who cares about body fat percentages? Use the mirror test. Eat a surplus until you get strong as shit. Once you feel/look like you are getting too fat and think the strength gains aren't worth it anymore, dial down the calories and so some hill sprints. Once you cut and maintain for a while, start eating at a surplus again. Rinse and repeat.

It's fairly simple.

[Mr.City]

who cares about body fat percentages? Use the mirror test. Eat a surplus until you get strong as shit. Once you feel/look like you are getting too fat and think the strength gains aren't worth it anymore, dial down the calories and so some hill sprints. Once you cut and maintain for a while, start eating at a surplus again. Rinse and repeat.

It's fairly simple.

Could that back and forth being prevented by dialing in a smart diet? Just look at KSC who become stronger while loosing weight.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes, if you want to do the dialing. Sheaffer can help with this. But I'm primarily concerned with novices and intermediates, and the simple way works fine for them.

[iskandar]

Better you Sir, than some phony bleeding-heart, chicken-necked, milquetoast, demagogue, that's for sure, indeed!

Isk, I don't mean to be contentious but I DO believe things need to be explained to such details.

The old "just get under the bar" adage was what kept me from true enlightenment for years.

It started with me as a skinnier kid than I'm now, so confounded with actual strength training that I diverted my energies over to the gimmicks before any solid foundation. Distractions of mine in the form of such things like serious gripper training at a body weight of 150 soaking wet; ala IronMind Enterprises. Can't say Dr. Strossen did too much for me there...

Super Squats (R), was a joke! The advice was solid but way too hyperbolic and allegorical for me; but a wispy breath of a boy, then...

Ohh well, thanks for the clarification Coach.

:)
Taikor Liao,

Perhaps I should make some clarifications at my end.

My post was in relation to someone who wants to do Mr. Rip's Novice Program ("Mr Novice") (I've had my fair share of the Hardgainer's one workout a week with HIT and BB splits thank you).

This forum, the Aasgard books and DVD, Mr. Rip's CF vids (collectively referred to as the " Novice Program Resources") are available for Mr. Novice to make some appreciable gains (I know I had after 10 months of SS which ended late last year. My 2010 goal on the TM is a humble 5-rep 2.25x BW on Squats and DL (at BW of 98 kg) and so far I appear to be on track).

I'm not trying to be some macho bad-ass with my earlier post, but what I meant was:

Mr Novice who wanted to do the Novice Program should know where he is, where he wants to be, apply knowledge gained from the Resources (and some common sense so that when you've started to become a fat ef, you know you're going too ape with the calories) and then get under the bar without over-analysing stuff.

On a side note, the said article was a reiteration/ summary (though not verbatim) of the Resources and its KIND of sad that Mr. Rip had to address this specific group or Mr. Novice of what is/is not the Novice Program, despite the availability of the Resources( not to mention the potential BB.com-type questions).

And I never said details were bad (refer to SS: BBT). Detailing what is/ is not the Novice Program MAY be.

Kind regards.

P/s: Like I said, I've been lurking (and LEARNING) from this forum, ever since it was housed under strengthmill forum and this had only been my second post.
Only now do I appreciate that the internet is a tough place to express yourself, especially since English is not my first language. Perhaps I should type less and just get under the bar.

[the big chill]

Could that back and forth being prevented by dialing in a smart diet? Just look at KSC who become stronger while loosing weight.

This shit is a marathon, not a sprint. You aren't going to wake up one morning with a 600lb deadlift, 500lb squat and 400lb bench, and a chiseled body overnight. It takes years to get your strength where you want it to be as well as your body.

[indian_lifter]

Thanks Ripp.

This article is basically a roadmap of what im going to be doing for the next 5-8 months.

[vince]

Thanks Mark, there are a lot of concise details outlined here. Very useful as a quick reference document.

[Qvistus]

After 3 months of not doing the program, I thought that 30 kg increase in squat is good progress until I read this article and started to really drink the milk.

[Joshua Denny]

This article was gold for me as I am the fat guy wanting to do SS after such a long absence from the iron it is sad. So thanks for clearing it up for me. I finish the gym in the garage Saturday and then I am back under the bar. Thanks.

[Elgar]

This program has worked well for me and is working well for me. Before last summer I was on the program just two of those months and saw 100lb increase in my squat and dead each and 50lb in my bench. Only 30 or so in the press. This however was just on my hearsay about the program, looking at some random videos and what not. Then course started in the summer and because of all the cardio and the hectic schedule I lost those gains. Now after getting the book over a month ago, I am near back to where my previous gains were and am again squatting my body weight and am almost at 1.5X bodyweight for deads. This is an awesome program and I can't wait to see where it takes me.

Reading the book really helped me out in areas I actually had no idea about.

I have to do cardio though while on the program so it may slow my progress, but it's the army life.

I can't wait once I improve to start teaching it to my troops so they have an alternative to do in the gym besides 10 different kinds of bicep curls or half squats.