The Supplement Thread

[Sami]

Basically, what do you take and why? If it's obvious basic stuff (protein, creatine, steroids... wat?), no need to explain why. But if you're on something like ZMA, or BCAAs or whatever the latest thing is, brief one line explanation or experience might be useful. BRIEF.

This could be a useful resource, I think.

[tnumrych]

Whey, creatine, vitamin D, multivitamin, Fish Oil, ZMA because I bought it with the creatine to bring the order to the magic free shipping amount.

[Sami]

I'll go. I've only JUST started using any supplements at all.

The basics I just started using:

Whey protein
Creatine monohydrate
Multi vit
Vit D3 - 5000IU
Fish Oil

I also wanted to try a couple of things just because of good reviews, not that I think I need them.

ZMA - No, I don't think my testosterone will go through the roof. But I do think my sleep might be better. I've only tried one night so far, seems to work.
BCAAs - meh, heard good stuff about them.

I think that's it.

[Ian Kovtunovich]

Whey protein has a ton of BCAAs in it, from what I understand. I dunno what the benefit of additional supplementation would be, but I don't know much about them, except for having inferred that you need them for protein synthesis.

I take Vitamin D for the hell of it, because some clown on the CF message boards was spraying about it, and it seems to be relatively harmless. I take 5k IU per day, which I have been doing for several months, and I don't think I feel any different, yet I keep taking it because why not.

I take fish oil as well, for general health reasons, as those little Omega-3's seem to be good for you. I take some that give me about 600mg of combined EPA and DHA per day, I think about 70/30, former to latter.

I think the evidence for most supplements is pretty thin to nonexistent, and a lot of them are a waste of money. I believe the NIH has a section on supplements and alternative therapies, where they give a rundown on the substance and its typical uses, general safety concerns, and then they grade the quality of the evidence (A through D, like school) for each use of the supplement. It's funny, most of the stuff never gets better than a B, and the bulk of it is C or worse, i.e. poor quality to no evidence. I also have a subscription to Consumer Labs and I get their reports on testing of various supplements, and a lot of supplements have a lot of lame shit in them (lead or other heavy metals, bacterial contamination, actual prescription drugs) or have wildly varying amounts of the advertised ingredients, etc. Many test OK, though, but if you are really into supplements, I think it's a valuable resource to avoid getting poisoned or ripped off.

Understanding the placebo effect, confirmation bias, and other foibles of human thinking goes a long way toward evaluating supplements and their effects, or lack thereof.

[WaWa Bird]

Flameout fish oil, vitamin D-3, ZMA, Optimum Nutrition protein powder, and a multi-vitamin.

[MikeHawk]

These common supplements are fine and all, but you probably won't see much or any effect in your training from them. You gotta take steroids or certain prohormones to cause a significant change in progress.

[cervicornis]

Vitamin D (Costco brand, 2,000 I.U. daily)
Fish Oil (Costco brand, 1,800 mg combined EPA/DHA daily)
Multi-Vit (Costco)

I share Ian's view on this topic. I'm somewhat skeptical that any supplements are worth taking, but these are the three that I bother with. Been taking them for a year and I haven't noticed any changes in health or recovery. I hope the fish oil will help counterbalance my strong family history of heart disease.

[NKT]

whey protein
creatine monohydrate
fermented cod liver oil
grass fed butter
milk thistle extract

I take the CLO and butter for its retro-charm and bone-and-tooth-building properties.

The milk thistle extract is to reinforce liver function.

[MikeHawk]

whey protein
creatine monohydrate
fermented cod liver oil
grass fed butter
milk thistle extract

I take the CLO and butter for its retro-charm and bone-and-tooth-building properties.

The milk thistle extract is to reinforce liver function.

Why did you list butter as a supplement? I'm thinking 'supplement' means "in addition to one's diet."

[NKT]

Why did you list butter as a supplement? I'm thinking 'supplement' means "in addition to one's diet."

The butter acts synergistically with the CLO, so I consider it part of the supplement. I agree that it's blurring the line between "very nutritious food" and "supplement".

Edit: most supplements are really just concentrated and/or isolated foods. If it's not, it's usually considered a drug rather than a supplement.

[fnet]

Fish Oil, whey protein, post work-out creatine, multi, vitamin D and probiotic supplement. The probiotics seem to help aid in the digestion of milk and keep things moving along, if you catch my drift...

[gzt]

Whey. More protein is always good.
Fish oil. Heart health, joint health. Not sure I notice, but we'll see what my blood panel says at the next doctor's visit.
Creatine. Just started. I think it definitely prolonged novice gains a little when I started.
Multivitamin. Just insurance, don't notice anything, but it's probably good for me.
Vitamin D. When I'm not getting enough sun or enriched milk. Not noticing a difference, but people say it's good.

Experimental:
I bought ZMA and have been trying it. I haven't been keeping a good sleep journal, but I think, anecdotally, I might be sleeping a little better with it. Not sure if it's worth it, but it's worth a shot. The constituent ingredients are all things that you might need.

[rdp]

Whey - make sure I get enough protein
Creatine - can't hurt
multivitamins/minerals - don't want any deficiencies

[Sami]

Seeing patterns.

[tnumrych]

Seeing patterns.

No surprise here. The most frequently occurring supplements (in this case, whey protein and creatine) will probably be the ones that are the most proven and efficacious. The over-hyped supplements have a way of weeding themselves out of usage.

[jameson]

Windexerol.

[utexas61]

Fish Oil
Whey Protein
Creatine Monohydrate (just started using this week)
Vit D
Vit C (once I finish this bottle I am just going to switch to a normal multi vit)

[Sami]

I agree, supps will not have the profound effect that they want us to believe they have. Food, training and sleep will have vastly... VASTLY greater effects than supps. But they can still be helpful and they have their place.

When any one of my supps runs out, I will go off it for a few weeks to see if I notice a difference. It will be hard not to rule out bias and the mental aspect associated, but I'll do my best.

[ZKP]

It's not food, But listening to Slayer while lifting, particularly the 'God Hates us All' album, is more useful to your training than most powders, pills, or formulas.

Good luck.

[Dastardly]

I will probably be seen as a pussy for my choices but:

Fish Oil (for my recurrent hamstring tendinitis & general health/recovery)

Vit D (only in winter)

Vitamin C ( I read that it is good for asthma, which I have)

Zinc (I am actually deficient, and it has something to do with testosterone production)

I am considering some whey protein, but with the prices I have seen, convenient protein food is better value. Whether it be canned fish, yoghurt or cottage cheese.

[StickFigure]

In addition to the above mentioned I have been taking BCAA's, Glutamine (supposedly suppresses cortisol) and CMZ. The idea of taking calcium and magnesium is to help with the breakdown and usage of the vitamin D. The zinc in it is just a bonus.

I am also contemplating getting some Glucosamine, Chondroiten and MSN to help with my plethora of joint issues....has anyone experimented with these and had any beneficial effects?

Lastly I am not taking fish oil yet, but when I start I will be taking the "recommended" (i have my sources) 1g per 10-15lbs of body weight. Though this is expensive, it will give you the best benefits of your fish oil. Also take it right before bed to help you sleep like a baby.

[LimieJosh]

Has anyone had any sleep/tiredness problems with ZMA?

Background - I have to be out of bed by 4.30 to get my training in before work and generally get to bed some time just after 10. It's short of 8 hours, but my body is very used to this after doing it for years. I rarely ever feel the need to hit the snooze button when my alarm goes goes off and even on morning when I could stay in bed longer I will naturally wake no later than 5 and feel ready to start the day.

About 3 weeks ago I decided that ZMA couldnt hurt and could possibly enable me to make better use of my sleep. However, I now actually feel tired in the morning when my alarm goes off...every morning.

[Ian Kovtunovich]

It's not food, But listening to Slayer while lifting, particularly the 'God Hates us All' album, is more useful to your training than most powders, pills, or formulas.

Good luck.

There's a fucking hilarious Henry Rollins bit about him working out to 'God Hates us All'. I think he's talking about doing cable crossovers or something, but all the same, hilarious. I read an interview with him where he alluded to having a 500+lb deadlift, too, and he mentioned squatting heavy.

But just search youtube for the workout bit. Very funny.

[Ian Kovtunovich]

I will probably be seen as a pussy for my choices but:

Fish Oil (for my recurrent hamstring tendinitis & general health/recovery)

Vit D (only in winter)

Vitamin C ( I read that it is good for asthma, which I have)

Zinc (I am actually deficient, and it has something to do with testosterone production)

I am considering some whey protein, but with the prices I have seen, convenient protein food is better value. Whether it be canned fish, yoghurt or cottage cheese.

The thing with the whey, specifically whey isolates, is that it's very quickly and readily absorbed (or whatever the fuck happens after you eat stuff--you know what I mean). So, post workout, you can get a big hit of a lot of protein very quickly. It's also a lot easier to have, say, 30g of whey protein in a 16oz glass of milk, for something like 45g of protein, than to eat a chicken breast or a can of tuna or what have you. At least, for me.

[ZKP]

There's a fucking hilarious Henry Rollins bit about him working out to 'God Hates us All'. I think he's talking about doing cable crossovers or something, but all the same, hilarious. I read an interview with him where he alluded to having a 500+lb deadlift, too, and he mentioned squatting heavy.

But just search youtube for the workout bit. Very funny.


That's really funny.....so don't just take my word for it, good ole Hank...

[Dastardly]

I found a good deal on ZMA:

http://www.discount-supplements.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=13299

270x800mg for £12.50

You have to order today I think though, last day of 50% sale.

I am expecting some good things from supplementing minerals.

[Misciagno]

Interesting thread.

Multivitamin - basically insurance
Chondroitin/Glucosamine -- previous joint issues, seems to help, maybe just placebo effect
MSM -- ditto; chiro recommended it
Fish oil pills - the Omega-3s seem like a good idea
Fermented Cod Liver Oil -- Heavy doses of A and D, plus the Romans and Vikings used to take it...
Whey protein -- b/c there's not enough protein in my diet otherwise
Creatine -- supposed to help recovery; seems to work

I may be wasting my money, but these things all seem harmless at worst, beneficial at best. I have ZMA but haven't taken it because you're supposed to take it before bed on an empty stomach. With my job, I tend to eat late. One of my best supplements is contrast showers - I believe there is a lot less soreness post-workout doing these.

[2big2fail]

1. Whey Protein
2. Red Line
3. Synthesize or NO Shotgun from VPX. ( try it , you'll like it ).
4. Bee Pollen

[Sami]

1. Whey Protein
2. Red Line
3. Synthesize or NO Shotgun from VPX. ( try it , you'll like it ).
4. Bee Pollen

You see, it's crazy wacky shit like "bee pollen" that I was talking about when I said some things need explanations. You can't just put some hippie shit like "bee pollen" and expect all of us to pop down to the local incense shop and ask Bill and/or Ted about 'bee pollen'. WTF?

[2big2fail]

You see, it's crazy wacky shit like "bee pollen" that I was talking about when I said some things need explanations. You can't just put some hippie shit like "bee pollen" and expect all of us to pop down to the local incense shop and ask Bill and/or Ted about 'bee pollen'. WTF?

Bee Pollen was suggested to me by someone when I went to work on the graveyard shift. They say it boosts engery and improves the imune system..and you know what ...it really does work.

[Sami]

Izzy Bizzy, let's get busy.


Sorry.

[Greg C]

Standard stuff here: Whey protein, fish oil (try carlson's in liquid form - this (http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-The-Very-Finest-Liquid-Fish-Oil) was a decent buy), Vit D, Vit B-complex and Vitamin M (Motrin ;)) as req'd.

I've done creatine and glutamine in the past, and saw no significant differences on or off in about 6 months of consistent use followed by another 6 off on the same programming.

I used Glucosamine-Chondroiten when doing some higher-impact stuff about 3 years ago (started mid-program) and did notice an improvement in joint health although that could have been adaptation as well.


In addition to the above mentioned I have been taking BCAA's, Glutamine (supposedly suppresses cortisol) and CMZ. The idea of taking calcium and magnesium is to help with the breakdown and usage of the vitamin D. The zinc in it is just a bonus.

I am also contemplating getting some Glucosamine, Chondroiten and MSN to help with my plethora of joint issues....has anyone experimented with these and had any beneficial effects?

Lastly I am not taking fish oil yet, but when I start I will be taking the "recommended" (i have my sources) 1g per 10-15lbs of body weight. Though this is expensive, it will give you the best benefits of your fish oil. Also take it right before bed to help you sleep like a baby.

[LondonTiger]

Have you supplement nerds looked into the mineral proterties of your regular food intake before you lashed out to buy supplements?

e.g. Vitamin C is VERY EASY to intake from a couple of oranges, or OJ.

Tjough I agree with whey protein, as it's a very good solid sorce readily available protein..

However, I wouldn't use whey to substituate meat too often, it lacks far too many micronutrients that you would find in a chicken breast of the same protein content.

I'll be honest I don't know much about nutrition, but I do know that people are ever too quick to get on supplements and lap up the marketing created by the supplement industry, before doing their research..

I find it how whey protein is branded by the big players, and bump up their price, and have these crazy "dickcrack" labelling like flamed/halogen writing in bold letters on a black canvas and have words like POWER, STRENGTH, FAST, etc written all over them.

When you can buy white labelled whey which is just as good in a 5kg bucket for £34 from myprotein.

[2big2fail]

However, I wouldn't use whey to substituate meat too often, it lacks far too many micronutrients that you would find in a chicken breast of the same protein content..

Have you ever tried eating 1.5 to 2 grams/bw of protein in chicken breasts ?? Not an easy feat my friend. Especially at a bodyweight of 250lbs. Two or three liquid protein feeds a day are a necessity.

[Sami]

Have you supplement nerds looked into the mineral proterties of your regular food intake before you lashed out to buy supplements?

e.g. Vitamin C is VERY EASY to intake from a couple of oranges, or OJ.

Tjough I agree with whey protein, as it's a very good solid sorce readily available protein..

However, I wouldn't use whey to substituate meat too often, it lacks far too many micronutrients that you would find in a chicken breast of the same protein content.

I'll be honest I don't know much about nutrition, but I do know that people are ever too quick to get on supplements and lap up the marketing created by the supplement industry, before doing their research..

I find it how whey protein is branded by the big players, and bump up their price, and have these crazy "dickcrack" labelling like flamed/halogen writing in bold letters on a black canvas and have words like POWER, STRENGTH, FAST, etc written all over them.

When you can buy white labelled whey which is just as good in a 5kg bucket for £34 from myprotein.

There is no natural Vit C in OJ, it was put back in during the packaging. Oranges are good, but don't want to eat them all the time. I take a multi vit anyway, not specifically Vit C.

Whey's good, and if you're in the UK, there's no reason not to get it from MyProtein; they've literally got everything (well almost, when they get steroids they'll have everything), and they're the cheapest.

[Dastardly]

In my last post I wrote things Im thinking of getting,

well I have ordered up now.

Glucosamine 1000mg HCL - from Healthspan

(been taking this for a few months for knee problems, I share my dads! It made a significant difference to his arthiritis but I have not noticed much)

ZMA 800mg - Optimum Nutrition (just ordered)

Vitamin C Powder 2500mg - Holland & Barret (just ordered)

Going to experiment with hyperdosing as a asthma cure.

Cod Liver Oil - Lemon Flavour liquid - Healthspan

I take a big gulp of this about 4x week.

Vitamin D 400 iu - Healthspan

Take 3 per day during winter.

Whey Protein - Holland & Barrett - Just ordered.

Was cheapest place for small tub, wont be best quality. Need to see what its like before ordering 5kg from a better source.

Homemade Stuff:
I have a good amount of nettles & borage nearby.
Nettles are good as anti-allergy treatment, borage is good as an anti inflammatory & for skin conditions.

[Sami]

In my last post I wrote things Im thinking of getting,

well I have ordered up now.

Glucosamine 1000mg HCL - from Healthspan

(been taking this for a few months for knee problems, I share my dads! It made a significant difference to his arthiritis but I have not noticed much)

ZMA 800mg - Optimum Nutrition (just ordered)

Vitamin C Powder 2500mg - Holland & Barret (just ordered)

Going to experiment with hyperdosing as a asthma cure.

Cod Liver Oil - Lemon Flavour liquid - Healthspan

I take a big gulp of this about 4x week.

Vitamin D 400 iu - Healthspan

Take 3 per day during winter.

Whey Protein - Holland & Barrett - Just ordered.

Was cheapest place for small tub, wont be best quality. Need to see what its like before ordering 5kg from a better source.

Homemade Stuff:
I have a good amount of nettles & borage nearby.
Nettles are good as anti-allergy treatment, borage is good as an anti inflammatory & for skin conditions.

You're an idiot. www.myprotein.co.uk

[Dastardly]

You're an idiot. www.myprotein.co.uk

My Protein was an option for stuff like Protein & ZMA, but in this particular instance where I just wanted to try a 1kg protein H&B was cheaper. (with £10 discount code)The ZMA from discount-supplements.co.uk was also the strongest & cheapest I could find .

My proteins ZMA equivalent does not even have the vitamin B6 added.

[God of Thunder]

@Dastardly - Don't ever buy from Holland & Barrat. According to a physio/nutritionist I know, they use the cheapest quality ingredients for their products. Avoid.

GoT

[Sami]

I made the sad, sad mistake of buying a tub of H&B protein a while back. Body Fortress or something? Whatever. That was a long time ago before I knew anything, and I thought it was cheap at £10. It is the most disgusting crap I've ever tasted. It doesn't mix AT ALL. Revolting shit. I couldn't finish it.

Myprotein is vastly cheaper, and better in every possible way. Seriously.

[Dastardly]

I always hear from people here that all supplements are basically the same & generic.

Can the H&B stuff be that bad? Maybe the flavour of the protein is poor, but I got unflavoured anway.

Well I only bought a small amount of the protein, and it was cheap with the discount. £14.99-£10=£4.99 for 908g

I was going to order from these guys next time:

http://www.muscleform.co.uk/Store/Protein-Sources/AVI$9PRO-XV-Whey-Protein-Concentrate

They seem to have no bullshit/no frills stuff aimed at athletes.

I cant bring myself to buy from myprotein after seeing douchebags at gyms wearing myprotein.com t-shirts & mitts.

[Sami]

I always hear from people here that all supplements are basically the same & generic.

Can the H&B stuff be that bad? Maybe the flavour of the protein is poor, but I got unflavoured anway.

Well I only bought a small amount of the protein, and it was cheap with the discount. £14.99-£10=£4.99 for 908g

I was going to order from these guys next time:

http://www.muscleform.co.uk/Store/Protein-Sources/AVI$9PRO-XV-Whey-Protein-Concentrate

They seem to have no bullshit/no frills stuff aimed at athletes.

I cant bring myself to buy from myprotein after seeing douchebags at gyms wearing myprotein.com t-shirts & mitts.

I know that guy. He gets sponsored to wear that stuff. What a sell out. But Jimmy Marku's gotta eat.

Well, it's not just taste, but mixability too. You'll find out just how bad H&B is. It's rank.

There are about 350 user reviews for the myprotein stuff, and it's £7.00/kg without any discount; but if you use this code, you get 5% off: MP158670

And an easy fix to your problem... don't buy their clothes so that you won't be douche?

[Dastardly]

Well, I got my Body Fortress protein protein from Holland & Barrett today which Sami had so strongly warned me about.

I had ordered Natural/Unflavoured so was pretty confident that pure whey protein could not be that fucked up. I was wrong!

Firstly, the look of it. It was grey & clumpy. This was not a problem though.
It also mixed just fine, put it in a bottle and shook it. Mixed prefectly.

The problem was the taste. It turned out to be loaded with ungodly amounts of sweetener. I can safely say it was just as sweet as pure sugar but horrible because it was the bitter-like horrible taste of artifical sweetener. In addition to this it was cinnamon flavoured, WTF? Together it was revolting.

I wrote to H&B expressing my disappointment, and guess what? They wrote back later the same day saying they are sending me a refund.

So it turns out the folks arent so bad after all. I get to keep the protein, which I will have to bake into some flapjacks or something. Only way it will be edible.

[twindeltatandem]

I make my own whey/cassein/BCAA mix at http://www.trueprotein.com/Default.aspx
...just because it's good and cheap.

I also buy their German creatine. If you're just looking for whey, you can't beat this:
http://www.trueprotein.com/Product_Details.aspx?cid=22&pid=6840

Being very old school, I eat about 18 tabs a day of Beverly Ultra 40 desiccated liver pills. Good stuff, super cheap. Here's an article, 98.7% true, that talks about desiccated liver:
http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/4594/

[Sami]

Well, I got my Body Fortress protein protein from Holland & Barrett today which Sami had so strongly warned me about.

I had ordered Natural/Unflavoured so was pretty confident that pure whey protein could not be that fucked up. I was wrong!

Firstly, the look of it. It was grey & clumpy. This was not a problem though.
It also mixed just fine, put it in a bottle and shook it. Mixed prefectly.

The problem was the taste. It turned out to be loaded with ungodly amounts of sweetener. I can safely say it was just as sweet as pure sugar but horrible because it was the bitter-like horrible taste of artifical sweetener. In addition to this it was cinnamon flavoured, WTF? Together it was revolting.

I wrote to H&B expressing my disappointment, and guess what? They wrote back later the same day saying they are sending me a refund.

So it turns out the folks arent so bad after all. I get to keep the protein, which I will have to bake into some flapjacks or something. Only way it will be edible.

www.myprotein.co.uk

MP158670, 5% off your whole order.