Appropriate Conditioning

[stef]

by John Sheaffer

“What is it that you have to do? What does your life entail? What is appropriate “conditioning” in your given situation?”

Full Article (http://startingstrength.com/articles/appropriate_conditioning_sheaffer.pdf)

Resources Page (http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/resources)

[Jonathan]

Love the article. I'm one of those guys who has to worry about performing a 1.5 mile run for work. I've got a few months before I need to worry about it again, but it is something I will have to program for eventually, especially since my weight gains will make a less than 25 BMI impossible.

[damonwells]

Outstanding article, John. We try to hammer this concept into the cadets' heads daily.

Great job.

Damon

[Hershey]

Love the Article -

Love this part "The pregnant woman, the above mentioned skinny-fat office geek, and the MMA fighter do not need the same things. Anyone who claims that they do is delusional or at the very least, usually drunk."

[MAD9692]

Great article. A lot of lessons to be learned here.
“the irony being that diet is 99% of body composition”
It took me a few years to actually believe this, but after following Johns advice I've learned that this is completly accurate. The reality is that most people equate conditioning work (GPP, Metcon, etc) with a physique with little BF.

[Ryan Long]

Very nice. We see the same thing in the Army, soldiers feel like they should be running so they spend time and energy satisfying cultural norms rather than doing what they need to be doing, getting stronger.

[Unpossible]

Love the Article -

Love this part "The pregnant woman, the above mentioned skinny-fat office geek, and the MMA fighter do not need the same things. Anyone who claims that they do is delusional or at the very least, usually drunk."


:confused:

:confused:


:p

http://www.best604homes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/couch.jpg

[Patrick L.]

Not a bad article...but not sure there are any new ideas presented here.
People should work out using a goal-oriented program based on what type of activities they need to perform and strength should be the primary focus because it translates to better performance no matter what the task. Got it.

[2big2fail]

Great article. Really spells it out and answers a lot of questions. Well written too. I can't wait for part II.

[GesD]

John,

Article was very informative. I especially liked the last paragraph. Looking forward to the next article.

Regards,
Dave

[Misciagno]

Great read! I'm one of those who has an idiotic old-fashioned run/pushups/situps PT test to do quarterly. Lot of good a fast mile time will do me when I'm trying to tackle a threat to my protectee or arresting a large criminal! Being a runner all my life before finding XFit and then Starting Strength, I sometimes still feel like I should be doing "conditioning" in one form or another, but I know that trying to fit it in will hurt my continuing strength gains. I'll consider it further when my squat and DL hit 400. Can't wait for part 2!

[indian_lifter]

Like John told me:

"Vamshi, No more running 3 miles for the hell of it."

[Kuzushi]

Found the article very helpful. Since you used the MMA fighter as an example I would really appreciate some mention of what the MMA/BJJ fighter who is stronger, but easily winded should do. Thanks.

[Mark E. Hurling]

This was an interesting article. I've been thinking about this lately as I was working on a draft about self defense and juggling my fragile energy stores and lower back recovery time as I get longer in the tooth. I used to do 5 days of cardio a week. Between the beating my back takes in lifting and getting slammed, thrown, and otherwise taken down in jujitsu, there's only so much gas in the tank and I have to think more carefully about what I do and why I am doing it.

I used to be a street cop but am in corporate security now, so the response to physical encounters is different than that of those sworn to protect and serve. My focus is on defending myself, my family, and maybe some others around me. I just have more discretion in what and who to get involved with. When you have a sworn duty to perform it's way different.

Most attacks are over and done, one way or another, in 30 seconds or less. Normally way less. How do I know this? My own anecdotal experiences, bolstered by discussions with other active duty cops at the dojo, and some on line research. I also started timing the black belts during instruction demonstrations of attacks and defenses to those attacks. They are demonstrated first at half speed so us underlings can actually see what is happening. This takes less than 15 seconds to show. So what, you think, what significance does any of this have?

Just this, why do cardio at all and to what purpose? Keeping the heart healthy, burn some more calories, and be able to perform at the level you need for your job, life, or hobbies. When you are attacked it takes a relatively brief burst of speed and power to overcome or flee the attack or attack(ers) and get some assistance or to a safer place. Think clean and jerk or sprint rather than 4 laps around the track like the football player mentioned in the article.

I do this with twice week GXP protocols and lower intensity aerobic activities fit in here and there through the course of a week. I wear a heart rate monitor when I do this and while I lift to keep an eye on my heart rate and calorie burn. When I lift, my heart rate averages out at around 120 beats per minute, which is 75% of my maximum heart rate at age 59. I dont know Mr. Sheaffer's or Rip's opinion on MHR and these percentages, but at this point it's all I've had to go on. I do a 5 minute warmup on a bike, keep my rest between sets at 1-2 minutes while lifting to keep the heart rate up for 15 minutes, and 15+ minutes of stretching for my beat up old back and gravely shoulders. 35 minutes of cardio at 65%-75% of MHR, since the stretching keeps my heart rate at 100+ BPM.

Would this be winning strategy in the UFC. I would guess not likely. Since most of us don't compete in 3-5 minute rounds in MMA is it realistic for the rest of us? Maybe, it seems to work pretty well for me anyway. It may seem less than manly to get the heck out of dodge in a hurry, but if you're outnumbered or an assailant is armed and you are not, you are helping him to thin the herd if you don't at least try to get somewhere else fast. If you can run a 10 minute mile, you will be nearly 100 yards away from the bad guy(s). With a little incentive, you can probably do even better than that.

[Scott_Robison]

Most attacks are over and done, one way or another, in 30 seconds or less. Normally way less.

Just this, why do cardio at all and to what purpose?

Interesting thoughts. Though distantly related, it's worth mentioning that part of the reason for the financial meltdown was the lack of emphasis on highly destructive but highly unlikely scenarios in the models financial firms were using. Even though the consequences were high, the low probability led them to believe they didn't need to take them into account.

I bring this up because you really need to be prepared for what can happen, not what you think will happen. You really can't imagine a scenario where you would have to work flat out for 20 min because your life depends on it? I can.

[Mark Rippetoe]

But why do you think that you actually have to do this type of training with any frequency to be able to do it when necessary if your strong enough? Because somebody on another website told you so? This dogma ignores the experiences of many people that demonstrate that 20 minutes of high-intensity glycolytic work is not a huge problem for a strength athlete.

[Josh Ferguson]

Most people ignore the plan and add extra shit because it is so counter-intuitive to rely on 3 exercises, 3 days a week to take care of you. People don't feel super tired or sore, so they feel like they are missing something. Their measuring sticks are some heart rate or the DOMS usually felt with "intense" exercise.

I found SS through the CrossFit world and tried it for 2 months this year. I had no training partner, no coach, and I did the pussy version that does pull-ups instead of power cleans. The only lift I had experience with was the bench press. Since I didn't drink enough milk, I stalled at around 265 on Squat, 285 on Dead, 135 on Press, and I don't even remember the bench because I don't care about it anymore. BUT!...I did a CrossFit total about a month after SS and banged out a 315 squat, 385 dead, and 185 press, pretty good for a 5'9", 165 lb guy about to turn 30 with no real lifting experience!

About a month after that, I crushed my Navy PT test and ran 1.5 miles in 10:20. I know that isn't super fast, but my previous best was 11:17. My legs and back were stronger, and I was much more aware of my posture and how it affects my exercise.

I'm about to start SS again with the old lady, except this time I'm doing it right with the power cleans and as much milk as I can stomach.

[Dylan Crooks]

Anyone know when the sequel to the article is to be released? Rip?

[Mark Rippetoe]

He's working on it now.

[REvans]

I was just going to ask the same question of when the article will be published. I can't wait to find out what kind of conditioning the modern viking does!

[Mark E. Hurling]

Rip, this thread kicked loose a question I've had in my mind for a while. I used the search function and didn't really see anything that quite answered this, so here goes. Every 4-6 weeks I get on a Precor elliptical and take the fitness test mode. It has a 3 minute warmup and then ramps up the intensity over time until your heart rate reaches the age graded intensity level that triggers the warm-down mode, around 120 BPM in my case at 59. Does this kind of test method reflect anything like some validity rather than springing out $$$ for an instrumented lab test, or am I just fooling myself?

[james7454]

Great article. I spent a few hours talking with John yesterday. He is what the strength training world should be all about:passionate as hell about teaching kids and making people better.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Every 4-6 weeks I get on a Precor elliptical and take the fitness test mode. It has a 3 minute warmup and then ramps up the intensity over time until your heart rate reaches the age graded intensity level that triggers the warm-down mode, around 120 BPM in my case at 59. Does this kind of test method reflect anything like some validity rather than springing out $$$ for an instrumented lab test, or am I just fooling myself?

If you cannot train past 120BPM at age 59, you are the demographic for which ellipticals are made.

[Mark E. Hurling]

I can and frequently do train at 85%+ of MHR (136-145) when I do my hard days of cardio twice a week. I just wondered if the test methodology I described was anything like a means of accurate evaluation of cardiovascular fitness. Having seen the usual suspects on ellipticals I'd hate to think I was in that same demographic. If so, then I've already lived too long. To paraphrase one of the great lines in Blade Runner, "Time to die."

[Mark Rippetoe]

The 220 - your age = MHR is the calculation used by the machine. For most everybody with a long training history and a normal-sized heart, it is wrong.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Doh! Well, as soon as you said this it made perfect sense. I've lifted and done lots of forms of cardiovascular exercise for decades now, so the 220-age = MHR calculation wouldn't fit me. Huh! As much as I've slagged on the BMI for dumb ass generalizations, it should have occurred to me that MHR was premised on the lowest common denominator. Thanks, Rip for taking the time to clear my brain on this subject. I hate to keep imposing, but would you mind pointing me at what might be a better means of self evaluation for cardiovascular fitness?

[Mark Rippetoe]

What do you want to quantify, and why?

[Mark E. Hurling]

Thanks for your patience in bearing with my murky attempts at communication. What I'm trying to quantify or perhaps at least identify is the level of cardiovascular fitness I am currently at. I see now that the Precor test probably sets the bar too low based on its assumptions of the general populations' level of fitness having lowered the common denominator too far. I keep recalling the strength standards chart in the older editions of your books and am looking for some roughly similar benchmark to either match myself against or strive for. I don't know if there is such a thing.

Why I want to do this is really pretty simple. My induction into geezerhood happens next month when I turn 60. I know now thanks to the strength standards charts where I stand in terms of strength. I just learned, thanks to other posters here, that these charts are now age adjusted. Hell, I'll be lifting at elite levels for several of the exercises in a few more weeks. All I have to do is keep breathing. When you get this long in the tooth you sometimes tend to want to know your general state of fitness and health. I'm not entirely certain I want to rely just on my MD's opinion.

I hope this makes better sense now, and thanks again for helping me to clarify my thinking on this matter.

[Mark Rippetoe]

So you want to quantify your endurance capacity for comparison to other people your age. Why? The vast majority of the population your age is dying, although it may take them a while to admit it. You are very strong, and not just for your age. You are fit enough to complete your strength training, and you do 2 hard days of "cardio" each week with no hospitalization. The only thing your MD can possibly understand is VO2max, so just go to a large Cooper-style aerobics facility and pay them to test it. This will keep him your friend. I just think it is silly, because you already know all you need to know, if you'll just wake up, and you're the only one who counts.

[JM3]

"if you'll just wake up, and you're the only one who counts"

yeah, Jesus kept saying shit like this and they nailed his ass....

[Mark Rippetoe]

Jesus had it coming. Hurling is better at flying under the radar.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Flying under the radar. Huh! I like that, especially since I wrapped security around the B2 during its stealthy days in the 80's. Out of the black and into the blue! It was like trying to cover an elephant with a 25 foot tarp in a windstorm. This is just a target rich environment for punchlines what with a name like Hurling and all.

Seriously though, thanks again Rip. I do appreciate your taking the time to sort me through my nearing the finish line crisis. Interestingly it was similar to something my jujitsu master (10th degree) said to a group of us a few weeks ago. It went something like, "Many of you already have the techniques and the knowledge mastered sufficiently at this point in your training. What some of you lack is believing that you do." I'll quit flogging this dead horse now and get back to juggling lifting, forcible realignment of primary bone structures in a non-theraputic manner, cardio, and recovery from all of the above. Time to go before Engvall hands me my sign.