Squatting effects on the spine.

[Dastardly]

Hello Charles,

I remember a while ago you mentioned something about how the squats actively helped lubricate/deliver fluids around the spine which was good for spine health. I cannot remember the specifics of what your said, nor remember what thread I saw it in so apologies if this is wrong. But I remembered you said something that piqued my interest.

I was wondering if you might be willing to elaborate a little about the effect of squats on the spine, or direct me to some reading resources.

I am only 25 years old but have suffered with persistent back ache since I was 15 or so. It has improved since barbell training which I have been doing for a year and a half. But I still get bizzarrely strong aching across my lumbar vertebrae when simply lying down.

I am a relatively unflexible person, I cannot create a greatly tight arch and inevitably get butt-wink on squats. I also can only begin deadlifts with an (at best) tight & flat back, not a visible arch.

So I do wonder what effect this is all having on my spine. Is it all good as long as I maintain muscular control during lifts?

[Charles Staley]

I don't remember saying this, but nevertheless, given what you've said below, I'd proceed with caution, and work on creating greater length in the hamstrings, hip flexors, and rectus abdominus- shortness in any or all of these muscles lead to the inability to extend your lumbar spine.

Also, for reasons stated above- no direct ab training for you until you get this problem resolved


Hello Charles,

I remember a while ago you mentioned something about how the squats actively helped lubricate/deliver fluids around the spine which was good for spine health. I cannot remember the specifics of what your said, nor remember what thread I saw it in so apologies if this is wrong. But I remembered you said something that piqued my interest.

I was wondering if you might be willing to elaborate a little about the effect of squats on the spine, or direct me to some reading resources.

I am only 25 years old but have suffered with persistent back ache since I was 15 or so. It has improved since barbell training which I have been doing for a year and a half. But I still get bizzarrely strong aching across my lumbar vertebrae when simply lying down.

I am a relatively unflexible person, I cannot create a greatly tight arch and inevitably get butt-wink on squats. I also can only begin deadlifts with an (at best) tight & flat back, not a visible arch.

So I do wonder what effect this is all having on my spine. Is it all good as long as I maintain muscular control during lifts?

[Dastardly]

I had a good search and managed to find what you wrote:


Axial compression is the primary, if not sole form of nutrition for the intervertebral discs- changes in osmotic pressure during compression/decompression drive nutrients into the discs.

That said, excessive compression forces- or excessive traction/torsional forces can damage discs. Often overlooked is the fact that training is inherently about stressing tissues- without stress there is no adaptation.

In terms of my own flexibility, I feel that it is the best that it can be. At least safely. I spent the whole of last year doing very thorough stretching. Dynamic stuff pre workout, long static holds (60 second+) post workout. Some on rest days too.

I eventually got tendinitis in my hamstring, which was probably both the fault of the stretching and trying to force depth on squats. This year Ive cut down on stretching massively, just doing very light 10 second holds post workout. Which has helped reduce tendinitis and has not reduced flexibility at all.

I am always very focused/rigorous into putting maximum effort to keep back extended & driving hips during squats. People have made jokes at the gym about how I make everything look hard. I indeed look like I am struggling with a 1rm when squatting an empty bar because I strain so hard to get some arch in my back.

Well to get to the point, I dont feel my flexibility can get any better. About one and a half years of stretching, squatting & deadlifting dilligently has got things as what I feel is the best they are going to get. In terms of my ability to get lumbar arch/tightness.

I have seen videos of Rip coaching people where they are getting "butt wink" where it does not seem to be a problem worth addressing. In SS there is also a picture of a long legged-short torso lifter who can inevitably only deadlift with a slightly rounded back. The book suggests that it is the correct position for that lifter.

With this information I have gathered/presumed that as long as muscular control remains strong, thinks are ok.

Am I correct here or have I misunderstood?

I decided to ask you instead of Rip because what you wrote in that previous post suggested you had some specific medical type information on how squatting effects the spine.

This is what I am really interested to hear, especially the kind of changes which are likely to occur in the spine from many years of squatting, deadlifting & doing standing presses, even with text book form. And especially for those with just "acceptable form".

[toddmr]

I have found that a foam roller, along with the squats and deadlifts, has helped my back immensely. Whenever I have soreness, achiness, whatever problems with my back, a few minutes on the foam roller provides tremendous relief.

Coach Staley- any experience or thoughts on foam rolling?

[grizzlybuck]

I have found that a foam roller, along with the squats and deadlifts, has helped my back immensely. Whenever I have soreness, achiness, whatever problems with my back, a few minutes on the foam roller provides tremendous relief.

Coach Staley- any experience or thoughts on foam rolling?

Not to hijack the thread, because, having had a bout with herniated L3-L4 and L4-L5 discs, and diagnosed with "degenerative disc disease" which I think means that I'm getting older, I am interested with what Coach Staley has to say about Squatting maybe helping my back.

Todd, what exercises on your foam roller targets your back, or is it just in loosening the quads, hams and glutes that it helps with back tightness?

[Dastardly]

I have found that a foam roller, along with the squats and deadlifts, has helped my back immensely. Whenever I have soreness, achiness, whatever problems with my back, a few minutes on the foam roller provides tremendous relief.

Coach Staley- any experience or thoughts on foam rolling?

The pain in my back purely occurs in the vertebrae and not any muscles. In fact when I get pump/DOMS in my back muscles it feels a lot better as it adds stability/tension.

I get some aching when having to do things slightly bent over like washing dishes or mopping. I used to try to keep back extended during this which only made it worse. I found that since I started doing round back good mornings it feels better.

I still get pain when I lie down either on my side or my back, it seems to forceably twist or pull vertebrae apart which causes the pain.

Im just interested to know what the physiological effects of barbell training is on the spine, to get a better idea of whether this will help or harm me in the long term.

What actually holds the spine together? Is it the discs/intervertebral fibrocartilage? Will squats increase the binding effect of this cartilage to make my spine more strongly held together?

[grizzlybuck]

Dastardly, my back pain presents itself differently than most as well. I have pain that radiates down either leg, but very, very little actual pain in the back itself.

It sure would be nice if something I enjoy and has many benefits, barbell training, could also help my back long term.

[Dastardly]

Grizzly:

I think that is what they call sciatica. The Sciatic nerves go from the spine and down each leg.

When I tore up my knee (march 2009) I got shooting pain from my toes going right up my spine. This was strong electrical type pulsing, felt like I was hooked up to a car battery.