Pussy whines on Dear Prudence about lifting a jub of water... readers agree.

[Beltshumeltz]

It's the last one on this page. It's mostly the readers attacking the women that surprised me:
http://www.slate.com/id/2254999 (text is on this thread below too)

What pisses me off here are the readers comments about women liberation movement hypocrisy shown by a few women asking for help lifting semi-heavy shit - we're talking about 45 pounds here. It's not much, but I wouldn't be happy to lift it if it were 70 to 90 pounds myself, which would be the equivalent for my previous untrained strength compared to a light female.

The worst are people comparing a female asking a "man" to lift something heavy as equivalent to a "man" counting on his female coworkers for cleaning the dishes and making coffee. It strikes me as misogyny to be unable to accept the fact that gender equality is acceptable and desirable even if there are still physical differences that sometimes make stronger people more eligible for picking up semi-heavy shit once a week.

And if the problem really was the manner in which he was asked, that's just something he could have fixed with humor. Maybe ask them that further requests may be done in the form of an epic poem about his strength? That's what I'd do...

---------------------------------

Dear Prudie,
I work in a department of eight people, and I am one of three men. One is infirm, and the other is near retirement age. I am in my mid-30s and healthy. Our office has two water coolers. My dilemma is that one woman is constantly e-mailing me requests to change the water bottles when they're empty. I mostly bring water from home and rarely use either cooler. I am pretty sick and tired of being the office water boy every week. Am I stuck having this a part of my job description because I am deemed fit enough to carry a five-gallon jug 10 feet? What happened to women's lib, anyway?
—Water, Water Everywhere

Dear Water,
If you belong to a gym, on the days you change the water bottles you can do one less rep on the biceps machine. Look at your fellow male workers, and instead of feeling resentment at having to do a task that must suck dry an entire minute or two of your week, rejoice in your good health and upper body strength. (Although I agree that a fit female should also be able to wrestle with a water bottle.) Instead of creating waste with your own bottles, take advantage of the free drinks at work. That way, you'll notice when the coolers are running low, and you can avoid the e-mail reminders you find so intolerable. And while you're quaffing your beverage, maybe you'll want to drop a chill pill in it, because you sound like a healthy, young crab.
—Prudie

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Selected reader's comments:

E
Also - In Australia Occupational Health and Safety laws moot the whole water-changing point. No one is allowed to lift an object of 20kg or more without lifting equipment and training...

Melanie Barnes
In WaterBoy's case, it seems to be a pretty clear case of sexism. Sure, he could smile and deal, but I could do the same when my boss gives me just a little pinch on my butt, couldn't I? This woman's emailing and expecting him to change the water just because he is a man is not appropriate.
(followed by tactics on how to solve this "problem")

WhatWeHaveKnown
LW4: Don't listen to Prudie on this one because it's not your job. You do not use the water from the cooler (therefore you're exempt) and unless your female coworkers have a medical condition not allowing them to lift heavy objects, it's their responsibility. Coolers are not so heavy as to require your assistance, but I would hope that if they needed your help, you would step in.
Maybe offer to give them a "tutorial" for the rare occasion you can't help and instead of emailing you when you have more important things to do, they can do it themselves. Show them that it's not that hard to change the cooler and in time, they should do it themselves.

Tim Foxworth
Regarding the water bottle discussion, I think Prudence is wrong. This is reverse sexism. Should all the women in the office be forced to make coffee for the men? Bad call Prudie.

Kellie Howell
Regarding the water bottle issue, I am an almost fifty female who is required as part of my job to change the water at my work. There is no reason why the women sholud not take their turn. I am really disgusted with women who want equality but only on their terms.

Someone with more common sense, finally:
Melissa Holland-Moore
Waterboy, I used to like people but you and amany of the comments of these people epitimize the reason I do not like the general population. If helping the other 7 by doing something they can't is that taxing on you let some one know. My take is that it should make you feel good to know that you can help the others by doing something that they just can not do. It is not a sexist issue at all it is just helping others. What the heck is the crime in helping others.

[Campbell]

I totally disagree with you. Why cant the woman lift her own water jug?

It will be interesting to see what other people think on this one.

[Terminater135]

If there's gender equality women should lift their heavy stuff by themselves.

[Beltshumeltz]

Because he has evidently been identified as the alpha male (alright, maybe not), and therefore it is his duty to pick up shit that is much lighter compared to his weight and strength than to the ladies.

He says he has to carry it 10 feet. Why make a fuss over a 20 seconds job that is easy for him to do but exponentially harder for others?

A counter-example that is not sexist and out of place (unlike the women fetching coffee example) would be if the weekly job was to fetch something in a hole that was much easier with a smaller wrist or fingers. I'd be pissed if a woman asked me to do that when it was much easier for her out of a misplaced sense of fairness and equality.

[Beltshumeltz]

If there's gender equality women should lift their heavy stuff by themselves.

Would you get anything in particular out of a situation with no equality that would make you more inclined to help?

Or jumping outside of this scenario a bit - now that you're stronger from training (as opposed to this guy), if female coworkers saw you as the obvious guy to lift somewhat heavy shit at work once per week, would you really feel wronged?

[Squatson]

I work at a bar...and the girl I work with makes me fill up the ice container, take out the trash, change kegs (even the uber light 1/8 barrels), move tables, etc. etc. etc.

The only one of those tasks that may actually be "too heavy" for her would be moving the full 1/2 barrel kegs.

She also said something like "the boys I grew up with wouldn't let me lift a finger because they were real men"

So I said something like "the girls I grew up with were woman enough to do things for themselves"

In this example, with something as light as a water bottle, it seems that the women are getting him to do it because they have deemed it a "man's job" not because they are physically unable to perform it.

I agree with the go make me a pie argument that has been given before.

[ColoWayno]

I'm just a sexist pig.

Not that I smack the ladies on the backside or make derogatory comments or anything disrespectful like that.

I hold doors, get things on top shelves, offer to walk them to their cars in dark parking lots, lift heavy things for them, etc.

I'm a sexist pig, and I like who I am.

[Tenement Funster]

I think it's polite to hold doors open for people, and to give women and old people priority on sitting down on public transit, but if you're at work that requires any sort of lifting, women should be hauling their weight. What's particularly bad is that most women don't do any sort of strength work at all and pride themselves on being womanly and weak. I guess some guys find being pathetic and vulnerable to be attractive attributes, but I've always favored people who are capable.

My girlfriend recently posted 265/181/308 raw @ 132lbs in a meet and she'll have pencil neck dudes insist on picking up light things for her. It's funny because we work oddjobs moving furniture a couple of times a month on weekends with a mutual friend that connected us who's also a powerlifter and she definitely tows her weight in a position I wouldn't trust average dudes with.

[Patrick]

If there's gender equality women should lift their heavy stuff by themselves.

What a feeble fucking argument. There's not gender equality and there never has been. There's a recognition that women are equal in human dignity and deserve to be treated on par with men in many social, political, and economic contexts rather than being viewed as "less than". Men and women are inherently biologically distinct and in this regard no one has ever pretended perfect equivalence; you can crap out a kid and she can't piss standing up without making a bit of a mess. Until the laws of nature pervert themselves such that women are naturally possessed of more testosterone than men and are, as a result, typically stronger, men will be better equipped to pick up heavy things.

The guy who wrote this complaint is a simpering cunt and he needs to grow up.

[Squatson]

Don't they have enough testerone to lift 40 pounds 2 feet off the ground?

[Patrick]

Don't they have enough testerone to lift 40 pounds 2 feet off the ground?

Is that really what you think the issue is? Of course they have enough testosterone to lift 40 lbs. But for smaller, weaker people it represents a serious challenge whereas for a larger, stronger person it's almost no effort whatsoever.

If there were the same four people in the office and one of them was born in Chiapas, would you expect the guy from Wisconsin to read a note written in Spanish? He's got the internet, right? And he could go get a Spanish-English dictionary and translate, couldn't he? Sure he could, but no one in his right mind looks at that situation and says "it's unfair to make the hispanic fellow read the Spanish."

The dream scenario for anyone who is not a douchebag and wants to participate in civilized society is that something that is very easy for him is very helpful to someone for whom the same task would have been super difficult. You're the good guy and it's no skin off your not out anything; it's a win-win.

If it's part of the work (like in the bar) then it's a different story and if the woman never gives a "thank you" then it's a different story but we're talking about a 30 second diversion to help someone out. A guy who whines about that is probably not and otherwise stoic and helpful dude. He's probably a bratty twat.

[Squatson]

True, I was just saying that in my experience some women won't even attempt a task just because they have deemed it a "man's job".

[BangItOut]

The problem is that this guy feels like he's being taken advantage of. He's singling out one woman who is emailing him these requests to change the water coolers. I do think that he should be nice and change the water coolers if asked but she, along with everyone else who uses them, should make sure not to take him for granted and thank him appropriately so he doesn't feel this way.

One idea for a litmus test for whether he's being taken advantage of is when he gets an email to change a cooler to reply sure and that he was just going to make a pot of coffee. Ask the woman if while he's changing the water cooler would she mind making a pot. If she says no, bad sign. If she says sure she wouldn't mind at all, then he probably just doesn't see that they do appreciate him.

[ILiftAlone]

I dont really see what the big deal is. As long as someone is nice to me when they ask for a favor I will oblige. Work environments usually require you to help out other people in some way. Why get all butt hurt about doing something nice for someone?

Now on the other hand if the girl (or guy for that matter) is rude and cops an attitude about it then of course I would probably not help her. Or if I constantly do small favors for someone and then they refuse to do me a favor, or if they never say thank you or whatever, the favors would probably stop all together.

I just look at it more as helping out coworkers since were on the same team. Untill someone proves they dont deserve it, I dont see any reason to make a big deal out of doing small favors.

[PVC]

On the one hand, the guy is a pussy for complaining about such a small task that takes seconds of his time.

On the other hand, for such a small task the woman who keeps pestering the guy should just do it herself.

One time when my mom had to mow the lawn (I usually do it during the summer, but I wasn't there that weekend) she complained that she's not strong enough to push the lawnmower up a small hill in our front lawn, and yet she goes to the gym 5 days a week. It pisses me off.

[Mr.City]

I wish I had a column so I could snarky too. However this whole situation could be easily solved.

He could either a) shut the fuck up and change the goddamn water like Prudie says, b) ignore the emails and keep working, or c) respond to the email with a picture of his dick and note a saying, "If you want a sip of water, you'll need to take a sip of this" and then wait for HR department.

I do find this a little irksome. I work in retail, which means I have to move stock sometimes. I work with plenty of women who don't feel carrying shit that weighs 20 lbs or more. As "the man," only I possess the physical strength needed to move that box of Gatorade or whatever, and if I'm working on sometimes else that moment, it gets pushed to the side. I know they can lift that shit, but they prefer to hide behind convenient gender stereotypes.

[simonsky]

have you guys heard about the israeli pirate attack?

[TrackJunkie]

Now, a lot of you are saying he should just shut up and help out, but when people who just shut up an help out, it's often just assumed that they'll keep doing it, and suddenly it's a permanent part of your job. Maybe it starts with installing water coolers, and then it's making a pot of coffee every morning, and then it's keeping the coffee flowing throughout the day, or fixing small plumbing issues, and suddenly you're janitorial staff and your boss wonders why you're not being productive anymore.

I'm with simonsky on this one. Letting people take advantage of you just because it's a small thing can be a bit of a slippery slope sometimes.

[Beltshumeltz]

Sure, it can be a slippery slope, but this is an issue best solved once and if it becomes slight abuse, rather than when it's still a simple favor.

I find some of the comments funny also in that people feel a tactic is needed in dealing with this (assuming the woman emailing is being rude or pushy). All you have to do is send an courteous email to solve whatever is the issue.

I disagree with the litmus test proposed of telling the woman you where "about to make a pot of coffee and could you please help me while I change the water". I don't think it's necessary to test people's good character just so you don't accidentally help out an asshole.

[simonsky]

I'm with simonsky on this one. Letting people take advantage of you just because it's a small thing can be a bit of a slippery slope sometimes.

dude i didnt post that check again. must be some sort of typo

[BangItOut]

this is an issue best solved once and if it becomes slight abuse, rather than when it's still a simple favor.
Agreed


All you have to do is send an courteous email to solve whatever is the issue.
I think you'd stand a good chance of looking like the office asshole, especially given the precedent that's been set. Humor wouldn't be a general-purpose solution because some co-workers may be foreign and not understand. How would you answer the question of "Hey Frank, Cathy told me you quit changing the water coolers. What happened?"


I don't think it's necessary to test people's good character just so you don't accidentally help out an asshole.
I don't really think you totally believe this. This would imply that if someone on the street gave you a sob story and asked you for money you wouldn't question them to see if they're lying. Certainly we all form beliefs about each other's character via our social intuition, and in the absence of data from our intuition we are prone to testing others, even if unconsciously. Surely this would be more likely to occur if we're repeatedly doing favors for someone and are unsure whether our own good character is being abused.

[gzt]

My job is "king of getting shit done", not "water boy". That's why I get paid the big bucks. I'm all in favor of helping women realize that they're not fragile waifs made of glass. I'm also all in favor of this chivalry shit, but women desperately need to get stronger and this is a prime learning opportunity for them.

[xzcion]

Bah! Dragged into this because of my weak will!

If anyone is sending you an email every week and expecting you to do fucking anything due to stereotyping: "you're the woman you make the fucking tea" "you're the man you lift the fucking water" it's fucking sexist.

whether you think that sort of sexism is morally wrong is up to you. but don't be a fucking hypocrite about it and say anyone except the fucking infirm are incapable of lifting a jug of water up to fucking hip height. what are we here, fucking crossfitters who use pvc?

is this sexism going on in the fucking idiot's situation? who the fuck knows!?!?!?!?

more importantly, who the fuck cares?

apparently, me! especially after reading 3 fucking pages of mostly drivel.

if you are happy, like gzt, to step up and do the fucking deed, fucking winner! if you feel you are being taken advantage of, then that's something that you need to discuss with the person you feel is taking fucking advantage of you. either way, man up and fucking do something about it.


this post brought to you by the letter 'F' and the number '18'.

F is for frustration as well as fucking. 18 is how many times the word fuck appears in this message.

additional reading: http://www.ted.com/talks/rebecca_saxe_how_brains_make_moral_judgments.html

[gordonrumble]

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that you are more physically capable than someone else and as such doing favours for them in that capacity. There is an issue when those favours are not reciprocated, or when you start getting taken advantage of.

I do find that women sometimes tend to hide behind their gender so as to avoid doing any physical work. That isn't an inability or a drastic difference in relative difficulty, it's laziness and manipulation. If women are in an environment where they want to ask others for favours strength-wise, then they should do something in return.

[Patrick]

I think everyone agrees that a repeated "favor" that never earns a thank you is fucking annoying no matter what. The reason I reacted like I did to the story is because there's no reason to think that's the case here; the complaint was that he gets asked to change the jug, he doesn't drink the water, and "what happened to womens' lib?" He never mentioned that it was thankless or that the requester is a particular pain in the ass -- in that case it's not even fodder for an advice columnist.

[kittenSmash]

Bitching about having to change a fucking water jug = fail, man card revoked, and ovaries growing.

Also, I'm with ColoWayno on this. I must be a sexist pig, because I was raised that men are to behave as men. We hold doors, protect, etc... And if some liberal, "progressive" fuck has a problem with a man showing some basic traditional respect to women, then they can go fuck themselves. I have never had a women tell me she was offended that I helped her with anything.

[xzcion]

I have never had a women tell me she was offended that I helped her with anything.

I have. Trust me when I say there are all sorts of crazy out there. :]

[Kyle Aaron]

It is not sexist to ask someone who is capable of doing something easily to do it for those who find it difficult. Just go change the water you lazy sod.

However, that whole workplace is obviously a bunch of weaklings who are destined to become cripples. They should all work out. A quarter of people over 70 can't lift 10lbs off the floor, this means they are less independent and can't do basic things like get their own groceries and get off the toilet without a handrail and a lot of shuffling about struggling.

If you can't lift a 40lb water bottle when you're 30, you're very probably going to be one of those weak 70 year olds who ends up in a nursing home with someone else wiping your arse. Not ideal.

It's not like they need to go and squat 400lbs. But any healthy person under 50 should be able to deadlift their own bodyweight, walk up stairs without sweating and puffing, that sort of thing.

[kittenSmash]

I have. Trust me when I say there are all sorts of crazy out there. :]

Never use the exception to prove the rule. There is always an exception.

[butkus]

Never use the exception to prove the rule. There is always an exception.

I'm surprised this came from the same guy who wrote this:


And if some liberal, "progressive" fuck has a problem with a man showing some basic traditional respect to women, then they can go fuck themselves.

Where was there any semblance of politics in the "Dear Prudence" column?

--------------------------------

If anything it seems that there are some pivotal details missing.

What type of relationship does this guy have with his female coworker?

My guess is that they don't get along very well because if they did this water situation wouldn't be an issue. Shit, if I don't like someone you can bet that I am not going out of my way to help them. They can go fuck themselves.

It seems probable that this might be the situation, or not... whatever.

------------------------

Anyways, who the fuck reads fucking "Dear Prudence?"

It may be that the guy is a "pussy" for not carrying water but I wouldn't rate him much lower than those who are reading fucking "Dear Prudence."

[Campbell]

Anyways, who the fuck reads fucking "Dear Prudence?"

It may be that the guy is a "pussy" for not carrying water but I wouldn't rate him much lower than those who are reading fucking "Dear Prudence."

ha ha ha...

This is exactly what i thought when i read this thread.