If I Had My Own Powerlifting Fed

[Gary Gibson]

First, I'd call it the FAPF ("Fucking Aweseome Powerlifting Fed"). And here are the divisions I'd have.

-by age: Young, Old, Geezer. Under 18 for the kiddies. Over 18 up to whatever and then an optional over 40 for those who feel that age and years of PL abuse are catching up with them.

Then...

Raw: Or "Ironman" or "Fucking Crazy". No belt, no wraps, no sleeves, no nothing. Just a singlet. Shoes may be worn, but will be considered flirting with the dark side. Barefoot lifters will be favored and encouraged to mock shoed lifters loudly and persistently. A squat rack may be used, but Steinborn squats will be encouraged and count for twice as many points. No hand offs on the bench. Benches done in the bridge style on the floor with the barbell hoisted into position by the lifter himself will also receive double points. No more than two spotters will be allowed on the platform for the bench and squat, but lifters who opt for no spotters are guaranteed very clement treatment from the judges. Any lifter caught using chalk for any reason will be disqualified from the meet. Three such disqualifications will result in a lifetime ban from the Raw division. Injuries suffered during attempts will be awarded bonus points based on the judges' perception of their "hardcore bad assedness." Points for these injuries will double if the lifter manages to complete the lift despite the pain.

Gear, Limited: Also known as semi-raw or "classic" or "ol skewl." Belts, wraps for knees and wrists and sleeves for knees and elbows: all are gear. And here you'd be allowed to use them without having to worry about mastering and competing in squat suits and shirts, you scared little pansy. Mind you, competitors can wear knee wraps, but you can use knee sleeves if you insist. Just don't bitch about the extra pounds the wraps gave your competitor because he could stand to crank them tighter than you could, you fucking crybaby. If you want to lift raw, go lift in the Raw/Ironman/Crazy division and stop crying about how knee wraps assist and knee sleeves don't. Knee wraps "give" about as much as a belt, but like the belt they're common sense protection even if they add to what's lifted. Squats are still walked out and you may get a hand off in the bench.

Gear, Unlimited: Belts, wraps and any ply or material you want. You can wear briefs with single or double ply suits, polyester, denim, canvas or kevlar. Wrap your knees with as much material as you want. Monolifts will be used. You can set those squats up as narrow or as wide as you want, BUT judging will still be strict and consistent so just hit depth and we'll all be happy.

Drug Testing? Meh. Let's just accept that the best are going to put things in their bodies that let them perform better. The Battle Against Steroids is as pointless as the wider War Against Drugs. You can stay clean and win some local meets, while the guys who are on go on to win the upper tier stuff...just like what happens in every other sport where strength and power make the difference.

[Dastardly]

Dontchathink that dropping the term "power" might be good in the title of an ideal fed?

FABSLF - Fucking Awesome Barbell Strength Lifting Fed

[PVC]

OR FAPLFed - Fucking Awesome Powerless Lifting Federation (pronounced to sound like "apple-fed")

[Gary Gibson]

Good point.


Strength Sport Federation. The SS Fed. Get it? Because "S.S." also stands for "Starting Strength"!

I really do like the term StrengthSport. Especially when it's all one word. We could maybe take Rip's suggestion and call it StrengthLifting.

[Dastardly]

Should the standing press be contested in this fed?

[Gary Gibson]

Should the standing press be contested in this fed?

The lifters in the Raw division may substitute the standing press for the bench press. They may lay back as far they'd like and use as much hip and leg drive as they'd like. NO multiplied points for standing press like for pullover/bridge press, but judges may award extra "no pansy equipment like racks or benches" bonus points.

[PVC]

NO multiplies points for standing press like for pullover/bridge press, but judges may award extra "no pansy equipment like racks or benches" bonus points.

Points should be taken away if they clean the weight to their shoulders. This is "StrengthLifting" after all. The use of power should not be tolerated. The weight should be Steinborned into the pressing position.

[LondonTiger]

iLift

everything will be white, and will have cute grey writing on them.

I'll charge people 10x more than what the other feds are charging, and someone mangage to sell more in the process as well

[imnotbncre8ive]

Would it be legit if Tony Stark entered the Geared, Unlimited division with his Iron Man suit and squatted 3000 or however much a typical american SUV weighs?

[Gary Gibson]

Would it be legit if Tony Stark entered the Geared, Unlimited division with his Iron Man suit and squatted 3000 or however much a typical american SUV weighs?

No. There is a very big difference between gear that is just tight clothing and gear that actually has gears and circuitry.

[HamptonMike]

Couldn't that be a different division? Engineered? The meet could take place at the same time as the 10000% RAW lifters on a platform facing them. You could probably sell tickets while we're at it.

[Gary Gibson]

Can't sleep. All wired after knee wraps made my squat session FUCKING AWESOME despite the wonkyness in my left knee.

How about...

Raw: no belt or sleeves or wraps
Unequipped/Semi-Raw/Classic: Belt and wraps
Limited Gear: Belt, wraps, single-ply
Unlimited Gear: Belt, wraps, multi-ply, monolift

[simonsky]

is puking allowed?

[TTT]

while your own org is in the works, will you be going to these ones?
September 3-5, 2010 in Idaho Falls, Idaho

There is a belt hater going from Australia to it.


uhh.. not me.. a different belt hater.:D

[Alex Willess]

What about a Naked division for those who are too RAW for RAW. The only allowed optional piece of gear would be a loincloth (prefferably something endangered like a white tiger) and all lifts would be done with an atlas stone. That would be totally raw.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

I think Super raw, bare feet, stienborn, Squat, press (from the clean), deadlift

Raw, belt, power rack, knee wraps/sleeve, but they must be left on.

unlimited anything not mechnical.

[Gary Gibson]

Raw guys want to have their cake and eat it, too. Everybody be hatin' on knee wraps, but in my experience belts give me more of a boost than knee wraps. That's why I'm willing to let the 10000000% Raw guys keep the "raw" designation, but I would rather they admit that the belts are gear. The rest of us understand that a a few pounds of rebound from knee wraps isn't a crime and worth the protection to the knees.

I just don't get how people can say a belt is raw, but then hate on knee wraps. They both add to poundages lifted while they add safety. If you're going to bag on knee wraps, then stay consistent and bag on belts, too. Lift in just a singlet and show what your body can do against that barbell without any external aids. Heck, I can get a couple more reps with the same weight because of good weightlifting shoes (that's about a 10-15% increase in lifting efficiency) and that's why I go so far as to say truly raw should be barefoot or just in some deadlifting slippers with decent traction.

That's why I'd want belts and wraps to stay together in something like "limited" or "classic", while belts plus wraps plus single-ply could be "standard" and then more plies (and the monolift) could be "unlimited." I just really don't understand how the purists can stay philosophically consistent by wanting to keep the belt. Let us classic/limited guys have our belts and wraps. If you lift with a belt, but avoid wraps, that's fine...just don't call that raw and look down on those who use wraps along with the belt (or any gear for that matter) because you're not 100% raw either.

[Gary Gibson]

One of my favorite posts from a PLWatch thread on the matter...

http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/15129


RAW = no wraps, no belt
something else = belt and wraps
something else = shirts and suits

Raw is cool if you can do it. Wraps and belts are universally accepted as being standard gym equipment, it's what the originals used, and they keep you safer. Suits and shirts are a different animal altogether, but if you've got bad hips and bad shoulders not sure you have the option of raw or belt and wraps. To some degree I've always looked at it as an evolution...early on when you've got no wear and tear and you aren't handling big weights you can go raw...then once you're handling loads where things start to stress joints/backs you add the belt and wraps...then once you get older and you're carrying more previous injury baggage plus you've gotten stronger and can handle more weight you take a dip into suits and shirts and see if you like them.

This may sound retarded but if I trained athletes (like NFL football players) I'd have them train in full gear. They don't need to take any additional damage in the weightroom to their knees, shoulders, hips and backs. Plus, they need to be stronger in that top end of the range of motion of the exercises we do. I think a guy that squats 800 in a suit is going to be alot stronger in sport than a guy who trains raw and never handles anything more than 600. The gear ain't evil and it's certainly doesn't automatically give you tons of extra poundage.

Most of the posters in that thread agreed that belts PLUS WRAPS is just fine. They didn't care what you called it, but it was good that it got rid of the learning curve and crazy extra poundages that come from suits and shirts. Belts and wraps are old school and they're a great idea even if they let you lift 10-15% more than you could without them.

I have to agree that 1000000% RAAAAAW is for the young, the not terribly strong (of which I am one, but I aint "young" anymore either), and those blessed with superb, resilient joints.

[Raskolnikov]

I just don't get how people can say a belt is raw, but then hate on knee wraps. They both add to poundages lifted while they add safety.

I don't have a dog in this fight at all (nor am I even strong enough to be considered "not terribly strong"), but I think one could argue that there is a qualitative difference between a belt and knee wraps. As you've argued, a belt allows your abs to work harder by providing external resistance. Knee wraps, on the other hand, store elastic energy. So that they both add poundages isn't the issue, per se; it's how those poundages are added. Making a distinction between the two is reasonable, in my opinion.

However, if I had my way, whether it be multiply or completely 100% super-duper RAAAWWW, I would have one, universal powerlifting standard, just like o-lifting has (the IPF seems like a good model). I just think it would be good for the sport.

[tnumrych]

Gary, I think you may need a separate division for this shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy7ipDAyXtI&feature=player_embedded#%21).

[cyhulhupun]

In my federation, guys would compete naked, like the original Olympics. They would lift logs, made from trees they felled themselves using flint axes they knapped themselves. Then they would lift huge stones which they will have pulled from the ocean or broken off of a mountain crag themselves. The winners get to eat the losers. Those found cheating will be fead to wild wolves, as they would not be a fitting repast for the true champions.

[Gary Gibson]

Gary, I think you may need a separate division for this shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy7ipDAyXtI&feature=player_embedded#%21).

At last...at long last!

[Gary Gibson]

Actually, there are places for all of us to lift...

If you think "raw" means nothing at all, you can lift in Raw United's Ironman division.

If you think "raw" means nothing but a belt with nothing on the knees, you're in luck because there are several feds whose "raw" means just that.

If you think "raw" means nothing but a belt, but knee sleeves are okay, too, then there are a few places for you, too, including USAPL Raw.

If you think "raw" means nothing but a a belt and knee wraps, you have the largest number of choices because apparently the majority of federations also feel that way.

[Gary Gibson]

while your own org is in the works, will you be going to these ones?
September 3-5, 2010 in Idaho Falls, Idaho

There is a belt hater going from Australia to it.


uhh.. not me.. a different belt hater.:D

http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/powerlifting-meets/wpc/2010/raw-worlds

I posted extensively on my numbers relative to PTC here (http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showpost.php?p=136956&postcount=25). If that's the best they've got, it would be kinda fun to go to the WPC Worlds and outsquat and outpull their 90 k lifters while wearing a Starting Strength t-shirt. I'd probably finish after them because of my shameful bench, but it would still be fun to rack up higher squats and pulls in the same meet and weight class.

[TTT]

Gary - Markos is going there as his son is competing.
I think he's going to try and move up to the 82kg weight division by then.
he's currently around 73kg

the whole crew isn't going.
just his son and him as coach (as it costs a fortune for travel/accom etc)

But since you are able to hold a mature conversation I thought you might be able to meet and chat with someone at the other end of the spectrum so to speak.
in person etc.

[Gary Gibson]

Gary - Markos is going there as his son is competing.
I think he's going to try and move up to the 82kg weight division by then.
he's currently around 73kg

the whole crew isn't going.
just his son and him as coach (as it costs a fortune for travel/accom etc)

But since you are able to hold a mature conversation I thought you might be able to meet and chat with someone at the other end of the spectrum so to speak.
in person etc.

You sure you got the right guy?

Yeah, I was thinking it would be murderously expensive to get even a half dozen guys to the U.S.

Too bad. I think it would be kind of fun to get a friendly rivalry going. Not sure what the qualification is for that meet. It' cheaper and easier for me just to go lift in the Raw United meet here in Orlando.

[TTT]

You sure you got the right guy?


well..
you have your moments.. :D

[xzcion]

well..
you have your moments.. :D

I can see you two sitting around when you're both 106, wearing diapers and still drinking beers. The current argument started 3 beers ago, and has, as usual, devolved into 'is too', 'is not' ad infinitum.