Valsalva

[sergeant_81]

Mr. Staley,

Is the valsalva maneuver recommended for the olympic lifts? I ask because I seem to unconsciously exhale during the lift, usually in the receiving position. This may be correlated to the fact that I'm having trouble staying tight in the receiving position of the snatch and am losing the bar from the deep squat as a result.

Thanks for your time,

-sergeant-

[Charles Staley]

I'm not sure you could effectively perform a heavy snatch, clean, or jerk w/o a valsalva. I'm surprised that you are aware of when you exhale honestly- breathing should be completely instinctive and subconscious.


Mr. Staley,

Is the valsalva maneuver recommended for the olympic lifts? I ask because I seem to unconsciously exhale during the lift, usually in the receiving position. This may be correlated to the fact that I'm having trouble staying tight in the receiving position of the snatch and am losing the bar from the deep squat as a result.

Thanks for your time,

-sergeant-

[MazdaMatt]

Oddly, i saw in the olympics that many people let out a yell as they complete the first pull.

For example and eye candy:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0e5ygAUfGg8Zl/610x.jpg

Marilou Dozois-Prevost of the Canadian Olympic team.

She hasn't got the best technique, but shit, she made the olympics!

[Charles Staley]

Marilou is strong enough to achieve good results with what appears to be less-than-ideal technique.


Oddly, i saw in the olympics that many people let out a yell as they complete the first pull.

For example and eye candy:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0e5ygAUfGg8Zl/610x.jpg

Marilou Dozois-Prevost of the Canadian Olympic team.

She hasn't got the best technique, but shit, she made the olympics!

[MazdaMatt]

Granted there's that "strength" factor, but she's certainly not the only lifter that lets out a yell on the way up at some point. I see some do it on the first pull, others on the second/third.

Do you teach to hold the breath all the way from the floor to the top? (ie, the full snatch all the way to standing, or the full clean to standing, obviously not including the jerk).

[fuscia]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0e5ygAUfGg8Zl/610x.jpg

looks like she cross trains on horseback.

[coldfire]

Oddly, i saw in the olympics that many people let out a yell as they complete the first pull.

For example and eye candy:



Marilou Dozois-Prevost of the Canadian Olympic team.

She hasn't got the best technique, but shit, she made the olympics!

http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showpost.php?p=51286&postcount=2

[God of Thunder]

"looks like she cross trains on horseback." With the face she's pulling there (I'm sure she is very pretty when not) she looks like the horse... ;)

[MazdaMatt]

Fuscia, there's been some talk before of oly lifters appearing this way and the discussion ended with the acceptance that it was an optical illusion caused by huge quads... this picture clearly demonstraits this is not true. Knees out! :) Charles, any comment on this part of her form (yeah, off topic, but whatever)?

Coldfire, yesterday on my way home I thought of that, too... how matial artists "kya" when they strike for added force.

[Charles Staley]

I think it's not useful to over-analyze it. Some yell, other's don't. While yelling does cause a spike in IAP, that spike is followed by a dip. So in short, I don't teach people how to breathe- I assume they already know how to do that


Granted there's that "strength" factor, but she's certainly not the only lifter that lets out a yell on the way up at some point. I see some do it on the first pull, others on the second/third.

Do you teach to hold the breath all the way from the floor to the top? (ie, the full snatch all the way to standing, or the full clean to standing, obviously not including the jerk).

[Charles Staley]

I'm not sure if her knee position is a deliberate strategy or not, but I prefer the knees to stay over the feet, not inside or outside of them. I don't mind her knees here, but I'd like to see her toes out to correspond with the knee position


Fuscia, there's been some talk before of oly lifters appearing this way and the discussion ended with the acceptance that it was an optical illusion caused by huge quads... this picture clearly demonstraits this is not true. Knees out! :) Charles, any comment on this part of her form (yeah, off topic, but whatever)?

Coldfire, yesterday on my way home I thought of that, too... how matial artists "kya" when they strike for added force.

[MazdaMatt]

Thanks for the input. :)

[fuscia]

Fuscia, there's been some talk before of oly lifters appearing this way and the discussion ended with the acceptance that it was an optical illusion caused by huge quads... this picture clearly demonstraits this is not true. Knees out! :)

I've wondered about that before and agree that, in her case, this is no optical delusion. That said, I sometimes wish olympic lifting was just about getting the bar up over one's head no matter what the method is used (even if you look like Seabiscuit trained you). One of the interesting things about golf is all the various methods employed to hit the ball (though, it was more interesting before the era of the 'swing guru'). Sprinting is just about getting to the finish first rather than how you get there. I guess it seems a purer, more imaginitive endeavor when the goal is so simplified.

[tnumrych]

I'm not sure if her knee position is a deliberate strategy or not, but I prefer the knees to stay over the feet, not inside or outside of them. I don't mind her knees here, but I'd like to see her toes out to correspond with the knee position

A lot of elite weightlifters utilize this technique nowadays, particularly Marcin Dolega (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9sPllx4G8M&feature=related), Andrei Aramnau (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZMBvJOdxIw&feature=related), and Szymon Kolecki (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J71-YVn9E0A) come to mind. In my humblest opinion I think by doing so they attempt to shorten the moment arm between the bar and the hip, thus improving their leverages in turn increasing load to be lifted. Just my $.02.

[tnumrych]

Add Andrei Aramnau to my last post. You can clearly see this being purposely done in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuO3IbzSj8Q). Although I will wholeheartedly defer to Charles' toes-out-to-correspond-to-knees position on the matter.

[TomF]

Those photos are from the Beijing games, where she lifted in the 48 kilo class (#105), and came 10th overall. Snatched 76 kilos. She's since snatched 87 kilos in competition, for the Canadian record.

Here's a YouTube clip of her snatches in Beijing ... made the first 2 attempts, lost the 3rd backwards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9RVr0HVkCg. Looks to me like her knees go both directions (inside and outside of her feet), and prolly that's simply a function of working at her limit weight. I should be so good as to snatch nearly double body weight.

[Charles Staley]

Your theory is solid, however, there is no reason not to also turn the feet out- doing so would not reduce the mechanical advantage of pushing the knees out.

Knees out is also a good way to get ones knees :out of the way" for long-levered lifters- I do it myself


A lot of elite weightlifters utilize this technique nowadays, particularly Marcin Dolega (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9sPllx4G8M&feature=related), Andrei Aramnau (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZMBvJOdxIw&feature=related), and Szymon Kolecki (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J71-YVn9E0A) come to mind. In my humblest opinion I think by doing so they attempt to shorten the moment arm between the bar and the hip, thus improving their leverages in turn increasing load to be lifted. Just my $.02.

[MazdaMatt]

Those photos are from the Beijing games, where she lifted in the 48 kilo class (#105), and came 10th overall. Snatched 76 kilos. She's since snatched 87 kilos in competition, for the Canadian record.

Here's a YouTube clip of her snatches in Beijing ... made the first 2 attempts, lost the 3rd backwards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9RVr0HVkCg. Looks to me like her knees go both directions (inside and outside of her feet), and prolly that's simply a function of working at her limit weight. I should be so good as to snatch nearly double body weight.

I didn't know that she's beaten that number! Good for her! I did hear (and see video) of her 100kg C&J - that's over double bodyweight. My goal this year is to match her snatch... and to weigh 200lbs :p

[fuscia]

Knees out is also a good way to get ones knees :out of the way" for long-levered lifters- I do it myself

I think that's exactly what she's doing. As she possesses a remarkable inseam, she'd have to raise her butt much faster than her shoulders in order to clear her knees vertically.

[Phil Stevens]

Oddly, i saw in the olympics that many people let out a yell as they complete the first pull.

For example and eye candy:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0e5ygAUfGg8Zl/610x.jpg

Marilou Dozois-Prevost of the Canadian Olympic team.

She hasn't got the best technique, but shit, she made the olympics!

One thing as well you often see in Olifters is they open there moutns like that but dont actually let much air out. Its somehtign I watched carefully as it seems counter intuitive especially coming form someone form a PLing back ground. Will let a bit out with a yell and bring some in fast as they catch

Likes Charles said the valsalva is pretty instinctual, to the extent I teach it and the tightness however it has to be trained and gotten used to.

[Charles Staley]

Excellent point from my own Director of Training...


One thing as well you often see in Olifters is they open there moutns like that but dont actually let much air out.