You Should Compete.

[Gary Gibson]

I'm serious. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMIGc-PqsBc&feature=player_embedded#!)

[BrotherIron]

Just my opinion but I'm not impressed with equipped lifting. It's not nearly as impressive as raw lifting imho.

[MazdaMatt]

Ya know, we've never talked about that... perhaps we should delve into this topic further...:rolleyes:

[Gary Gibson]

USAPL has a raw division in which I currently compete. One day I'm sure I'll compete equipped. There are all sorts of levels of RAAAAWness to satisfy everyone's palate as well as all levels of gear. I don't care how any of you compete. I just think you should do it. Gym lifts are masturbation: satisfying, but something you ought not to talk about. Lifting is hard and doing something hard is great, but nothing will enhance your training like having to put it on the line in front of strangers and officials.

[Peter_k]

Equipped lifting is basically the equivalent of bodybuilding: training primarily for appearance. You don't get actually stronger by strapping yourself into a skintight suit; it just makes you look better on the platform when you can squat a lot more.

That said, the other side (eating a paleo diet and training wearing a loincloth) is equally gay.

Just my bit of trolling for the day....

[Gary Gibson]

Okay, looks like the point of this particular thread has been missed.

[TrackJunkie]

Personally, I only ever lift heavy rocks while naked. Also, I haven't shaved or showered since I turned 18, so that I can lift AND smell 10000% RAAAAAAWWWWW.

[MazdaMatt]

Okay, looks like the point of this particular thread has been missed.

It was deflected with the first response.

Back on topic...

I don't compete cuz I'm a wuss. Is there even a point in competing till you've completed SS? I checked out the local peeps and in order to even be in the same ballpark I'd have to double all my lifts. I'm certain that my 3 attemps would be done and they'd add 100lbs to the bar to start the 1st attempt of the next competitor.

There is a local gym that hosts PL and WL events. I may switch to that gym when my SS time is up so I can learn more about WL and try to compete in that area (at least).

[Peter_k]

Okay, looks like the point of this particular thread has been missed.

Oh, I get the point and agree. PLing is probably one of the easiest sports to get involved in if you want. And relatively cheap.

But it's also a full-time sport, IMO. If you already lift and do some other sport, you're not going to be very successful.

[Gary Gibson]

Oh, I get the point and agree. PLing is probably one of the easiest sports to get involved in if you want. And relatively cheap.

But it's also a full-time sport, IMO. If you already lift and do some other sport, you're not going to be very successful.

This is probably true. Excellence requires specialization. PL has been great for me because it's the first time I've been officially competitive, beyond informal basketball games and barroom brawls.

[CarverM]

I may be mistaken, but I think the point of this post was that you should compete because there are hot chicks at powerlifting competitions.

[Marotta]

Anyone else find that first girl deadlifting cute?

I did my first meet 2 weeks ago, coolest thing I've ever done.

[TrackJunkie]

I think I remember Staley saying anyone who trains for a sport should just get out and do it. Whether you're "ready" for the event or not, knowing that you have an event coming up will be great motivation and change the way you think about your training.
Personally, I recently competed for the first time on my town's 250m velodrome recently, and it showed me exactly what my problems are. Until you get out there and actually face the competition, you can guess what your problems are all you want, but competing will actually show you, and I think that's true for pretty much any sport.

[gzt]

I don't compete cuz I'm a wuss. Is there even a point in competing till you've completed SS? I checked out the local peeps and in order to even be in the same ballpark I'd have to double all my lifts. I'm certain that my 3 attemps would be done and they'd add 100lbs to the bar to start the 1st attempt of the next competitor.
I think you should look at the results of some recent competitions before you make that decision. Nobody wants to be the first person in the flight and they put 50kg on the bar before the next lifter. But I think experience is good and if you go to a local meet that has a lot of junior lifters or has everybody in one flight, you wouldn't end up in that situation, most likely.

[MazdaMatt]

TJ, weightlifting at a meet vs. weightlifting in a gym doesn't really make a diff in terms of seeing your weaknesses. Obviously track riding against competitors does, as do most sports where other people are involved.

gzt, I DID look my local competition before I mentioned this. I can probably single a 275 squat right now and guys my weight are squatting well over 400. My bench is just lame and my deadlift is equally bad as my squat compared to the competition (I could probably single 320 and the compeition is pulling 500+). I would literally total half of what a mid-pack guy in my class would total.

I think if it was a single flight, I'd be lining up with the 110lb girls.

[gzt]

Yeah, but you're not just lifting with people in your class. You're lifting with lighter people, heavier people, younger people, etc, usually. A 275 max might be a little light to compete if you're self-conscious, but Gary was lifting when he was lifting in the low 300s.

[MazdaMatt]

...yeah, so I think that waiting till I finish with SS is a good start. You don't send your toddler off to track meets cuz he took his first steps, afterall.

[FatButWeak]

[QUOTE=Peter_k;141101]Equipped lifting is basically the equivalent of bodybuilding: training primarily for appearance. You don't get actually stronger by strapping yourself into a skintight suit; it just makes you look better on the platform when you can squat a lot more.

Dude, you could not be more wrong. Powerlifting is a SPORT; gear or absence of is part of the SPORT; just like helmets are part of the sport of Football; like gloves are part of the SPORT of baseball; like cleats/boots are part of the sport of soccer. Almost all sports have rules regulating the equipment that must/may be worn. Powerlifting, and its cousin weightlifting are no different.

Demonstartions of strength are not what powerlifting or weightlifting are. There are other ways to demonstarte power and strnegth. Powerlifting (all federations, all levels of gear) is a sport and a competition within the constraints of certain rules. Basketball is no less of a sport than boxing because you cannot punch anybody in the face; and powerlifting is not less of a sport than your naked, barefoot rock lifting because it allows/disallows belts, wraps, suits, whatever.

Gary's point is that competing brings out the best in all of us. Yeah your totals are higher in geared competition, but so what? The competition is relative, and you are really competing against yourself.

[TomV]

[QUOTE=Peter_k;141101]Equipped lifting is basically the equivalent of bodybuilding: training primarily for appearance. You don't get actually stronger by strapping yourself into a skintight suit; it just makes you look better on the platform when you can squat a lot more.

Dude, you could not be more wrong. Powerlifting is a SPORT; gear or absence of is part of the SPORT; just like helmets are part of the sport of Football; like gloves are part of the SPORT of baseball; like cleats/boots are part of the sport of soccer. Almost all sports have rules regulating the equipment that must/may be worn. Powerlifting, and its cousin weightlifting are no different.

Demonstartions of strength are not what powerlifting or weightlifting are. There are other ways to demonstarte power and strnegth. Powerlifting (all federations, all levels of gear) is a sport and a competition within the constraints of certain rules. Basketball is no less of a sport than boxing because you cannot punch anybody in the face; and powerlifting is not less of a sport than your naked, barefoot rock lifting because it allows/disallows belts, wraps, suits, whatever.

Gary's point is that competing brings out the best in all of us. Yeah your totals are higher in geared competition, but so what? The competition is relative, and you are really competing against yourself.

I'm with this guy.

[SeanL]

It was deflected with the first response.

Back on topic...

I don't compete cuz I'm a wuss. Is there even a point in competing till you've completed SS? I checked out the local peeps and in order to even be in the same ballpark I'd have to double all my lifts. I'm certain that my 3 attemps would be done and they'd add 100lbs to the bar to start the 1st attempt of the next competitor.

There is a local gym that hosts PL and WL events. I may switch to that gym when my SS time is up so I can learn more about WL and try to compete in that area (at least).

Going to meets, meeting other lifters, getting meet experience. I think you'll find that lifters are incredibly supportive people and that going to a few meets and getting on the platform will find you some lifetime friends, training partners, and "coaches". Competeing when you know you'll post the lowest total takes huge courage and people respect that, they'll do everything they can to help you after that (provided you have the right attitude). I fully understand your reasons for not competeing, but I think you're missing out on some great things. Just my .02, but I think you're results will skyrocket if you start going to a few meets, meeting people, and getting some great help from great lifters.

Also, at this point there is no reason to train specifically for a meet so it wouldn't interfere with your training.

[MazdaMatt]

Point taken... but I still won't be doing it just yet. Maybe this winter - who knows.

[Gary Gibson]

Going to meets, meeting other lifters, getting meet experience. I think you'll find that lifters are incredibly supportive people and that going to a few meets and getting on the platform will find you some lifetime friends, training partners, and "coaches". Competeing when you know you'll post the lowest total takes huge courage and people respect that, they'll do everything they can to help you after that (provided you have the right attitude). I fully understand your reasons for not competeing, but I think you're missing out on some great things. Just my .02, but I think you're results will skyrocket if you start going to a few meets, meeting people, and getting some great help from great lifters.

Also, at this point there is no reason to train specifically for a meet so it wouldn't interfere with your training.

Testify!!!

+ a million

[Gary Gibson]

It's really ashame that a few of the feds don't have a raw division where people who don't like gear can go compete and post official numbers and not worry about what the lifters in gear are doing.

[Bergie]

I say go for it. I competed in the 51yo, 90 kg raw class.

I had started lifting only a year and a half ago. I participated in my first meet this past April.

Yes it is a little humbling. But what is wrong with being humble at time?

To me my weakness showed the most in the warm up room. Our flight has two bars to share, so it was like working in with someone at the gym. Only I was basically finished warming up by the time the rest of my flight was just getting to started. But they other guys were great, very encouraging. I never once felt looked down on by anyone.

During the competition I was certainly first with all three attempts for all the lifts. But what the heck, I was competing with my self for person best efforts. My goals was to get all nine lifts with a PR for each of the 3rd attempts. The audience was very support as well, not one laugh in the group.

My PRs were Squat 132.5 Bench 97.5 and Deadlift 147.

Hey but due to careful age and weight class selection I got a first place!

[MazdaMatt]

If those are in Kilos, I feel even worse for not being able to match a humble old man :p

[TrackJunkie]

TJ, weightlifting at a meet vs. weightlifting in a gym doesn't really make a diff in terms of seeing your weaknesses. Obviously track riding against competitors does, as do most sports where other people are involved.

Yeah, that's a fair critique of my experience. I still think there's something to the idea that knowing you have to compete soon will change the way you lift for the better. Having competition numbers means you've also had competition experience which will help you when you compete more seriously later.

[Gary Gibson]

Powerlifting meets are the most positive places I've ever been. You find yourself cheering on the competitors in your class and division. Your real competition is yourself. Everybody's real enemy is gravity. You compete to demonstrate self-mastery and individual improvement. Coming in first is great and you should aim for that if it's remotely possible, but more important is how much you improved since last time and that you were able to show it when it counts. No matter what your lifts are, you are going to love it when they call your name and it's time for you to march on the platform and show them what you got, even if what you got lands you in last place, especially when you go for that personal best on your last attempt and everybody in the place is pulling for you.

[drlvegas]

Just my opinion but I'm not impressed with equipped lifting. It's not nearly as impressive as raw lifting imho.

Yes, we all know those 1200 lb squatters are really sissies who can only squat 900 raw.

I did my first Highland Games this past April. The saying there is that there are throwers who lift, and lifters who throw--with PL, you don't have that issue.

Competition is fun whether you get killed or not. I'm 43, so I competed in the Masters division. One guy threw the weight-over-bar 4 feet higher than me, and the heavy hammer 30 feet past me. I went back to next day to watch the other divisions throw, and come to find out, he threw in and won the A class. There were also two in my class who are going to the Masters World Championships this year. Of course, I found this out after getting my ass kicked. Everyone was very cool and very helpful. I had no idea at the time, but I was getting pointers from some of the best in the world. The only place you get that is at a competition.

[BrotherIron]

Yes, we all know those 1200 lb squatters are really sissies who can only squat 900 raw.

I did my first Highland Games this past April. The saying there is that there are throwers who lift, and lifters who throw--with PL, you don't have that issue.

Competition is fun whether you get killed or not. I'm 43, so I competed in the Masters division. One guy threw the weight-over-bar 4 feet higher than me, and the heavy hammer 30 feet past me. I went back to next day to watch the other divisions throw, and come to find out, he threw in and won the A class. There were also two in my class who are going to the Masters World Championships this year. Of course, I found this out after getting my ass kicked. Everyone was very cool and very helpful. I had no idea at the time, but I was getting pointers from some of the best in the world. The only place you get that is at a competition.

Equipment allows people to squat a helluva lot more than just 200lbs above there raw max. I see it all day training at John's. Curtis and his crew train there so I see the immense increase in numbers from when they train equipped and when they train raw.

[SeanL]

Point taken... but I still won't be doing it just yet. Maybe this winter - who knows.

How 'bout this? Find a comp in your area, send in an entry form and check, then get in the gym and train for it! Any meet within the next 12 months will do. Then, as part of training for the meet, go to other local meets and offer to help out. Load the bar, whatever. Just go and get involved, meet people, etc. Who knows, maybe you'll meet that lady who's been eluding you...

[MazdaMatt]

Okay, this is pretty irrelevent to most of you... but as a guy that likes racing I can't help but liken the "equipment" battle to an argument over who's more hardcore, a guy racing in the Civic Spec series or a guy racing F1... by the logic of some of you guys, the Civic Spec racer is more hardcore because he doesnt' have the equipment to make him go faster... his lap times would EASILY be improved if he was driving an F1 car which makes F1 lame cuz its easy.

Fair competition is fair competition.

[drlvegas]

Equipment allows people to squat a helluva lot more than just 200lbs above there raw max. I see it all day training at John's. Curtis and his crew train there so I see the immense increase in numbers from when they train equipped and when they train raw.

1200-900 is actually more than 200. Since I train at a shitty Globo, I was guessing. How much difference do you see in the heavy weight classes?

[MazdaMatt]

Who knows, maybe you'll meet that lady who's been eluding you...

Wait, my girlfriend's been hanging out at PL meets?

Yeah, yeah... i'm totally understanding the whole "Go, their fun, you'll learn, no shame" etc... I just figure I might as well finish novice gains first... gimme a couple months. As I said, maybe this winter will be the right time. One more straw and I'm cancelling my globogym membership and joining the WL gym in town.

[SeanL]

oops, wrong guy. Sorry

[Marotta]

Okay, this is pretty irrelevent to most of you... but as a guy that likes racing I can't help but liken the "equipment" battle to an argument over who's more hardcore, a guy racing in the Civic Spec series or a guy racing F1... by the logic of some of you guys, the Civic Spec racer is more hardcore because he doesnt' have the equipment to make him go faster... his lap times would EASILY be improved if he was driving an F1 car which makes F1 lame cuz its easy.

Fair competition is fair competition.

I too love racing and understand this analogy quite well, but it's somewhat different with racing than lifting. With an economy car it takes x amount of car control skills, and driving ability. Then you get to the Spec Civic, with takes 5x balls/car control to push to it's limit, which is a higher limit, then finally the F1 car, you look at drivers like Schumacher and Senna, and they have 10x balls and car control. So even the best driver in the Honda Spec series would be able to have far better lap times in an F1 car than any of us, they still couldn't hang with F1 drivers.

You ever take your car to the track? I'm at Mosport/Shannonville a few times a year.

[Mr.City]

Those were very attractive ladies in that video. Thank you, Gary.

[Monster]

Equipped lifting is basically the equivalent of bodybuilding: training primarily for appearance. You don't get actually stronger by strapping yourself into a skintight suit; it just makes you look better on the platform when you can squat a lot more.

Sorry to continue the derail...


You. Ignorant. Cunt.


You know fuckall about equipped lifting.

[TrackJunkie]

Sorry to continue the derail...


You. Ignorant. Cunt.


You know fuckall about equipped lifting.

I'm constantly amazed at how obvious a troll can be on the internet, and yet people still walk over the bridge!

[Monster]

Such attractive trolling....under the bridge....could not resist :D

[toddmr]

I'm down with the competitors. I went to my first meet about this time last year and it was awesome. Doing the same meet again later this month.

I met more seriously strong guys there than in three years of training at the Globo Gym. And because we all share a common interest, everyone's more friendly than at your average globo.

In three years of globo gym, I've met three real, honest to god, interested in getting strong people. One of them lurks on this board but doesn't post much.

Met a dozen at the meet, got invited to train with them at their gyms, etc. Great stuff.

And one of the coolest things about this meet is that there's a center for people with developmental disabilities in Ga that has a powerlifting program.

While the dd-people lifted, everyone in the stands watched them like it was the USAPL nationals. We cheered when they made their lifts and got their medals. Shot the shit with them afterwards. Really reinvigorated my faith in humanity.

I've recently gotten the itch to try competitive weightlifting after starting to train with a legendary OL coach. Went to my first OL meet last weekend knowing that there would be 58kg and 63kg girls lifting way more than me. Had a great time, met some new folks to train with, and got the first time jitters out of my system before my first "real" OL meet.

PR clean, too, motherfuckers. But I lost the jerk on a press out.

[MikeD]

I'm with Gary! I did a Raw United meet a couple weeks ago, hit some PR's (350 squat and 450 DL being the highlights) in the 165 class, and y'know what? I still got smoked in my weight class (though oddly outlifted some 181'ers).

Think of it this way: Not only do you get to hit a squat PR, but you get to share it with a room full of people whom you barely know but cheer you on anyway. And a this bitching people do about not having other serious people in their gyms, guess what? Every single person at a meet is that kind of person.

There was a kid in the 181's whose best squat was like 235, his deadlift less than 300. Everyone clapped and I didn't hear any snide comments. In fact, I think that takes more balls, whereas some of us knew we were going to put up something fairly respectable.

[MazdaMatt]

I too love racing and understand this analogy quite well, but it's somewhat different with racing than lifting. With an economy car it takes x amount of car control skills, and driving ability. Then you get to the Spec Civic, with takes 5x balls/car control to push to it's limit, which is a higher limit, then finally the F1 car, you look at drivers like Schumacher and Senna, and they have 10x balls and car control. So even the best driver in the Honda Spec series would be able to have far better lap times in an F1 car than any of us, they still couldn't hang with F1 drivers.

You ever take your car to the track? I'm at Mosport/Shannonville a few times a year.

But that's EXACTLY the analogy - The car makes them go faster, but they're still in a higher league of competition. The gear makes them lift more, but they're still in a higher league of competition. The gear doesn't make WINNING easier.

No shit, eh? I was at Mosport for the Vintage Festival a week and a half ago (just watching/camping). I've run my Mazda (protege5) on Mosport twice, the Driver Development track about 5-6 times, and had my honda (prepared Del Sol) on the DDT twice, Shannonville for a 2-day compeition, dunnville a couple times and Calabogie (awesome track). I just run Solosprint time trials.

[Marotta]

But that's EXACTLY the analogy - The car makes them go faster, but they're still in a higher league of competition. The gear makes them lift more, but they're still in a higher league of competition. The gear doesn't make WINNING easier.

No shit, eh? I was at Mosport for the Vintage Festival a week and a half ago (just watching/camping). I've run my Mazda (protege5) on Mosport twice, the Driver Development track about 5-6 times, and had my honda (prepared Del Sol) on the DDT twice, Shannonville for a 2-day compeition, dunnville a couple times and Calabogie (awesome track). I just run Solosprint time trials.

Ohhhhh, I thought you were saying that the raw lifter/civic diver could hop in the squat suit/F1 car and win. Now I see what you mean, and agree.

I just got back from Shannonville, I usually run with the BMW Club (I have a shitty old E30 325) I'm going to Calabogie on the weekend of the 17th, The big track at Mosport in September for the first time, and I'll probably do two or three more days at DDT

[MazdaMatt]

I'm jealous of your budget :( My car is in the garage awaiting parts (aka cashflow).

Bogie is a beautiful track! I was there in '08 when the pavement was still fresh. What a thrill. I locked em up going over the crest into turn 5 at 175km/h :)

Mosport big track is nothing like bogie. The turns are less flowing and (dare I say) more technical. Turn 2 is a pants-shitter, turn 5 takes balls to do at max speed. Your car MIGHT be able to take turn 4 at full throttle if you've got good rubber and suspension - that also takes some cahones.

Have fun with your remaining season! Do you post on the CASC boards?

[Marotta]

I'm jealous of your budget :( My car is in the garage awaiting parts (aka cashflow).

Bogie is a beautiful track! I was there in '08 when the pavement was still fresh. What a thrill. I locked em up going over the crest into turn 5 at 175km/h :)

Mosport big track is nothing like bogie. The turns are less flowing and (dare I say) more technical. Turn 2 is a pants-shitter, turn 5 takes balls to do at max speed. Your car MIGHT be able to take turn 4 at full throttle if you've got good rubber and suspension - that also takes some cahones.

Have fun with your remaining season! Do you post on the CASC boards?

My budget is nothing to be jealous of, It's a $3000 car that drives like it, Burns oil and has a bent chassis that makes right turns difficult. the ~200hp is nice though :)

I've been around both with some fast racers many-a-time as a passenger, so I know the tracks quite well, Mosport is a scary track when driven balls-out, it's the fastest road course in all of north america.

I don't but maybe our paths will cross at one track or another one of these days.

[Gary Gibson]

Hey! Back on track, racers!!

Two things:

1) Gear makes all this shit HARDER. The more extreme the gear, the harder all this becomes.

Occasionally some raaaaaaaw guy puts on a pair of briefs or a loose suit or knee wraps and gets 10 or 20 lbs on his squat right away and thinks "Shit! This is easy and this gear stuff is artificially inflating my lifts without me even having to think about it. Gear whores are losers with fragile egos!!!!"

Yet these same people don't just go into geared competitions and smoke all those losers. That's because getting the most out of gear takes skill, more complex programming and a tolerance to pain that most people just aren't willing to develop. Yeah, it's easy to get 10 lbs out of wraps, but getting 50 is a whole other story. And a loose shirt may up your max bench by 20 lbs, but try learning to use a very tight one and learning the new groove in order to get 100, 200 or 300.

A lot of the butthurt about gear stems from the fact that outsiders don't know that an APA/APF monolift squat and bench is a different sport than single-ply walked out squats and single-ply benches which is a different sport than raw lifting. So outsiders hear the huge numbers the APA/APF put up and to the uninformed the 500-lbs raw squatter and 400-lb raw bencher sounds weak. Outsiders don't know that it's the difference between the high jump and the pole vault with a wooden pole and the pole vault with a modern pole and that just drives raw guys insane.

2) You should compete.

There is indeed something a little Special Olympics about powerlifting insofar as the courage and effort often means more at the local level than actual results. But that's Fine. It's great that the sport is so accessible. Signing up for a meet and facing the prospect of being on that platform in front of strangers will really clean up and focus your training. Not backing out and showing up will develop your character and there is something especially brave about competing even when you know you'll be badly outlifted.

And hey, you can always keep striving and showing up and at some point your lifts will be respectable, even if you'll never win on the international level. Once you start, you'll realize why competitors say that gym lifts don't count. Nothing quite like making it official and doing so under pressure. Wearing specialty shoes and not using machines doesn't separate you from the average gym goer; competition does. You don't have to compete, but you should.

[Marotta]

1) Gear makes all this shit HARDER. The more extreme the gear, the harder all this becomes.

Occasionally some raaaaaaaw guy puts on a pair of briefs or a loose suit or knee wraps and gets 10 or 20 lbs on his squat right away and thinks "Shit! This is easy and this gear stuff is artificially inflating my lifts without me even having to think about it. Gear whores are losers with fragile egos!!!!"

Yet these same people don't just go into geared competitions and smoke all those losers. That's because getting the most out of gear takes skill, more complex programming and a tolerance to pain that most people just aren't willing to develop. Yeah, it's easy to get 10 lbs out of wraps, but getting 50 is a whole other story. And a loose shirt may up your max bench by 20 lbs, but try learning to use a very tight one and learning the new groove in order to get 100, 200 or 300.

A lot of the butthurt about gear stems from the fact that outsiders don't know that an APA/APF monolift squat and bench is a different sport than single-ply walked out squats and single-ply benches which is a different sport than raw lifting. So outsiders hear the huge numbers the APA/APF put up and to the uninformed the 500-lbs raw squatter and 400-lb raw bencher sounds weak. Outsiders don't know that it's the difference between the high jump and the pole vault with a wooden pole and the pole vault with a modern pole and that just drives raw guys insane.

That's exactly what MazdaMatt and I were saying...

[Gary Gibson]

That's exactly what MazdaMatt and I were saying...

I know, but I was having a hard time understanding all your car talk. What I know about cars could fill a thimble. I do love the Del Sol, though. Sweet car.

[TomF]

I disagree.

I've lifted in friendly competitions twice - yeah, they pumped me up, and my ego didn't get too badly bruised. And they had a significant effect in terms of focusing my lifting in preparation - and leaving me with a higher overall strength level than I'd have had otherwise. That's all good.

But lifting isn't the only, or even primary focus of my life. I'm serious about music, martial arts, I do some rowing, and I've a lot of community stuff going on. To say nothing about family, work, and the demands of looking after a 160 year old house. Any one of those has periods with a lot of extra time demands, and the activities are integral to my personality. There'd be something significant lost, if I dropped any in favour of any other.

So lifting has to fit into a balance, and any activity in that balance will sometimes come to the foreground in importance, and at other times recede for a while. But in any of the activities, consistency really is key - it affects lifting, but it affects technique on a musical instrument at least as strongly. It comes down to making the balance work, and not casting off anything integral to you in favour of something else. Even if that something else is a good thing.

[MazdaMatt]

My budget is nothing to be jealous of, It's a $3000 car that drives like it, Burns oil and has a bent chassis that makes right turns difficult. the ~200hp is nice though :)

Okay, no full throttle on turn 4, k?

Okay, I think we're done with car talk - don't worry Gary, we WERE on point for a moment. You wouldn't like my Del Sol - I love ugly cars and mine is quite ugly. It is the "black iron gym" of Del Sols :)

[Alex Bond]

A lot of the butthurt about gear stems from the fact that outsiders don't know that an APA/APF monolift squat and bench is a different sport than single-ply walked out squats and single-ply benches which is a different sport than raw lifting. So outsiders hear the huge numbers the APA/APF put up and to the uninformed the 500-lbs raw squatter and 400-lb raw bencher sounds weak. Outsiders don't know that it's the difference between the high jump and the pole vault with a wooden pole and the pole vault with a modern pole and that just drives raw guys insane.


Is there anything wrong with getting butthurt about this, though? I mean, on the list of things one could get butthurt about, I think this is more to the reasonable end then not. It's not the only reason I dislike geared lifting, but it's definitely one of them.

[Gary Gibson]

Is there anything wrong with getting butthurt about this, though? I mean, on the list of things one could get butthurt about, I think this is more to the reasonable end then not. It's not the only reason I dislike geared lifting, but it's definitely one of them.

All are free to be butthurt about what they want. I think soccer is an embarrassing thing to be associated with, that it's weird, unnatural, boring to watch and just plain dumb. But I'm in the minority about that and don't bother venturing my opinion because no one cares and soccer will continue to be the most popular sport the world over no matter how stupid I personally find it.

And I'd be a lot more pissed about the videos of RAAAAAW high schoolers quarter squatting 500 lbs and claiming that they're stronger than I am. The guys in gear are legitimately ultra strong and choose to do a version of the sport that allows them to push their bodies to levels that gear-bashers can only dream of. Now occasionally a gear guy will get sick of it and choose to train and compete without that stuff and that's fine. But the constant bashing of gear just gets old. Gear makes this stuff harder even as it "helps" the athlete lift more.

I use the high jump/pole vault analogy again. You don't see high jumpers calling pole vaulters cheaters. Getting any use out of a pole takes skill and guts on top of raw athleticism and people give pole vaulters their due without accusing them of artificially inflating the height the human body could get on its own. I just don't get why we can't do the same with powerlifting. There's raw and there's geared, both single and multi-ply. Why do we have to bash each other? Anyone can high jump and anyone can compete raw. But adding the pole or the gear and getting anything out of them take some doing.

Of course it's not just the raw guys who are crying. I've met a few weightlifting guys who think powerlifting is a joke whether it's raw or geared. According to them powerlifters only do half squats and the bench press is a useless movement that doesn't deserve to be contested. To them powerlifters are just big guys who don't have the athleticism to be weightlifters. So even if you compete raw, guys in the OTHER barbell sport are laughing at you. You just can't win.

[TomF]

You're right, Gary. You don't see high jumpers calling pole vaulters "cheaters." But that's because pole vaulters carry a big, obvious, bendy stick.

Geared powerlifters wear something that looks, to most, like a singlet or a shirt. Which in turn looks pretty much like what un-geared powerlifters wear.

I suspect that if pole vaulters were routinely called high jumpers, and the stick they carried was pretty much invisible, you might hear a bit more bellyaching from high jumpers too.

[MazdaMatt]

So what you're saying is...

http://livingelpaso.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/haters.jpg

How'd this turn into a discussion about gear anyway. I think you caused the missing of your own point, GG.

[Gary Gibson]

So what you're saying is...

http://livingelpaso.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/haters.jpg

How'd this turn into a discussion about gear anyway. I think you caused the missing of your own point, GG.

Couldn't be helped. I put up a video meant to inspire people to compete and the first comment was about how geared lifting isn't as cool as raw. Then there was another comment on it. Then another.


You're right, Gary. You don't see high jumpers calling pole vaulters "cheaters." But that's because pole vaulters carry a big, obvious, bendy stick.

Geared powerlifters wear something that looks, to most, like a singlet or a shirt. Which in turn looks pretty much like what un-geared powerlifters wear.

I suspect that if pole vaulters were routinely called high jumpers, and the stick they carried was pretty much invisible, you might hear a bit more bellyaching from high jumpers too.

You have a very good point here, but all we can do is start using terms to indicate in which division we lift: raw, single or multi. If I were a geared lifter, I'd feel obliged to explain quickly the difference between my competition/geared lift and my estimated raw max: "700 SQ canvas, ~450 SQ raw." I care about this sport and want people to understand it and if asked I can take 30 seconds to explain that gear allows more weight to be lifted, but that it takes more work to use it. But that's just me. Shorthand for those in the know is which fed you were in.

Are we worried about guys trying to pass off their geared lift as what they could do raw? Well, people have been inflating their lifts since people have lifted heavy things. I've met skinny-fat young men who have never competed claim to me with all seriousness that they've squatted 400 for reps and benched "about 315". They don't feel the need to clarify that those 400 lbs were in the smith machine to a "safe" depth of 4 inches or that their 315 bench is an estimate max based on the 225 they did to 5 inches of their chests in the smith machine. So it goes.

[TomF]

It's easier than that, Gary.

When you do launch your own federation, make a rule that gear must make lifters look like Sir Lancelot or King Arthur. Nice, obvious, polished steel. I think a jousting helmet would be a nice touch too, but that could be optional.

As a corollory, raw lifters would look like serfs ... barefoot and in rags.

[SeanL]

geared vs. raw. Why do any of you care? Compete in the sport that appeals to YOU and stop worrying about a sport you don't compete in. Talk about insecure.

As for me, I'm a raw guy. Not because I think raw is better, but because I'm not willing to invest the money and time to compete in a harder, more technical sport.

I actually like the racing analogy though guys. It's pretty dead on, even though I'm not a racing fan.

[August West]

geared vs. raw. Why do any of you care? Compete in the sport that appeals to YOU and stop worrying about a sport you don't compete in. Talk about insecure.


Agreed. At my first comp, lots of other lifters in my flight were equipped - and we hung out and bullshitted just the same. In person, it's not the great divide that people make it out to be on the internets. Maybe there'd be less bickering if more people would take Gary's advice and just go compete - it's fun and motivating, the people are friendly, and you don't have to be competitive with everyone else there - just set your own goals and break PRs.

[Bergie]

The last two posts are spot on.

Don't worry about what others are doing. Get off your butt and compete! It's worth it.

[imnotbncre8ive]

I think a jousting helmet would be a nice touch too, but that could be optional.

If they wore helmets, then their primal screams would be muffled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIbdUI666nI

So no mouthcovers allowed.

[bowdirk]

Is there a fed for this gear yet?

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/exo_main_485.jpg

Anyhow, thanks Gary for posting your thoughts about competing. I had never really thought of it and now i am. I can see how it would make a huge difference in my training.

And i could go on stage in a tiny shiny thong, and thats not something most pale 50 year old chunky guys do!

-bowdirk

[SeanL]

Is there a fed for this gear yet?

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/exo_main_485.jpg

Anyhow, thanks Gary for posting your thoughts about competing. I had never really thought of it and now i am. I can see how it would make a huge difference in my training.

And i could go on stage in a tiny shiny thong, and thats not something most pale 50 year old chunky guys do!

-bowdirk

No offense, but ewww!

Allow me to suggest a neon pink singlet instead

[ILiftAlone]

I like my lifting like I like my sex, RAW!!!

Lets get back to making fun of soccer players now...

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

REally it comes down to "lift heavy shit, lift it how you want, but be honest about what you did".

Yeah, fuck soccer. Goddamn crybabies.

The hits that put these guys to the ground crying are a fraction of the ones I took in rugby.

[Gary Gibson]

REally it comes down to "lift heavy shit, lift it how you want, but be honest about what you did".

Yeah, fuck soccer. Goddamn crybabies.

The hits that put these guys to the ground crying are a fraction of the ones I took in rugby.

My dear pa explained to me that the players are just trying to take advantage of the rules. Ejected players can't be replaced so if you get the other team's guys tossed for too many yellow cards, then you gain the advantage. So it's worth the big crybaby act to get the advantage.

Still: fucking crybabies.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

"players are just trying to take advantage of the rules."

WHich is a further indictment of the game.

You try that shit on a rugby pitch and you're own team will line up to kick your ass. It's embarressing

[Patrick]

Know what's cool? Fixating on something you say you don't care about.

If you don't care, or worse -- don't like it -- move on.

[Gary Gibson]

Know what's cool? Fixating on something you say you don't care about.

If you don't care, or worse -- don't like it -- move on.

I've hardly thought about hipsters at all lately.

[Gary Gibson]

Anyhow, thanks Gary for posting your thoughts about competing. I had never really thought of it and now i am. I can see how it would make a huge difference in my training.

And i could go on stage in a tiny shiny thong, and thats not something most pale 50 year old chunky guys do!

-bowdirk

This makes it all worth it.

I'm talking about the former paragraph, not the latter.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

I take every opportunity to insult that which I can't stand until I either change it or abolish it.

[Patrick]

I've hardly thought about hipsters at all lately.

You, in particular, have not a god-damned-toe to stand on in this regard. Post more about your emotional state, please.


I take every opportunity to insult that which I can't stand until I either change it or abolish it.

Every opportunity? I didn't see you weigh in against foot binding or wage slavery or female circumcision. Where's the outrage? Or do you just want to wag nuts about rugby? I know what you mean... and I mis-represented it on purpose. I did it because you didn't represent it any better and you spent way too much time trashing soccer in favor of you sport. I don't favor soccer either, fyi.

I think obvious answers are obvious. The joke is that you guys pretend otherwise.

I'm equally predictable, probably more. I just don't have illusions that I'm special.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

When the topic arises I insult unwanted body modification, unequal treatment and hippies. It hasn't come up here yet.

I did kick a muslim out of my dinner party for thinking all women should be subservient to men.

[MazdaMatt]

I did kick a muslim out of my dinner party for thinking all women should be subservient to men.

Good for you, I hope you'd do the same for any non-muslim as well.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Of course, but the reason he believed all women should be subservient was because he was muslim. If he belived all muslim women should subservient and that being muslim was a free choice to make, I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

[homerj742]

Of course, but the reason he believed all women should be subservient was because he was muslim. If he belived all muslim women should subservient and that being muslim was a free choice to make, I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

As a "non-practicing" muslim dude....good job! :)

[Guido]

USAPL has a raw division in which I currently compete. One day I'm sure I'll compete equipped. There are all sorts of levels of RAAAAWness to satisfy everyone's palate as well as all levels of gear. I don't care how any of you compete. I just think you should do it. Gym lifts are masturbation: satisfying, but something you ought not to talk about. Lifting is hard and doing something hard is great, but nothing will enhance your training like having to put it on the line in front of strangers and officials.

Hey, Gary. You going to RAW Nats in Denver in a couple weeks? I'll be there w/ my wife who will be competing (I would have been too if not for recent injury messing up my training).

[rpbrown]

Hey Gary - I think I will compete and try to get my friend to compete at the APF/AAPF Georgia State PL/BP Championships in Hiram, GA.

I only started doing SS in earnest back in January and am switching to TM or adv. novice, but I'd like to try this out to "see the sights".


Better yet, though, is that it's on my birthday!


(I mentioned all of this because I remember from another thread that you are in the Florida area.)

[Gary Gibson]

Hey, Gary. You going to RAW Nats in Denver in a couple weeks? I'll be there w/ my wife who will be competing (I would have been too if not for recent injury messing up my training).

I drove my squat into the ground and will not be competing in Raw Nationals. I thought I'd be squatting over 450 by now. Instead I'm more than a hundred pounds off my best. Bench went up, however.


Hey Gary - I think I will compete and try to get my friend to compete at the APF/AAPF Georgia State PL/BP Championships in Hiram, GA.

I only started doing SS in earnest back in January and am switching to TM or adv. novice, but I'd like to try this out to "see the sights".


Better yet, though, is that it's on my birthday!


(I mentioned all of this because I remember from another thread that you are in the Florida area.)

Excellent! I hope you both go. Report back with results, please.