What are my 'limiting' muscles in the deadlift?

[FROGGBUSTER]

hi mark, i've been trying to find a solution to my problem for weeks and have been asking around a lot but still have not obtained definite answers.

i squat 230x5 to parallel comfortably and feel i can still add weight every time for awhile before i stall. deadlift, however, is another story. i sumo-deadlift 225x5, and this is an incredibly strenuous effort for me. (the reason i sumo-deadlift is because i had a knee injury that prevented me from conventional deadlifting; however, that injury has since healed)

according to your standards in practical programming, i'm between intermediate and advanced in squat and still a novice in the deadlift.

i'm trying to find out why there is such a disparity between these 2 lifts that seemingly have so much in common (many of the same muscles are used).

is it hamstring/lowerback/glutes that need work or is it quads that need work? or both? but if it's both, then why do i have a relatively strong squat? i'm very confused.

also, i've taken a 2-week break from squatting and deadlifting (groin injury) and i start back on monday 9/24. my plan was to drop to 200 on deadlift and increase every workout by 5lbs because 225 was so hard.

how much do you think i should drop down on squats? progress has been slow recently (i replaced wednesdays with front squats because i just couldn't recover quickly enough), and i really want to increase weight. but on the other hand, i know i can't go back to directly squatting 230 after a 2-week break.

thanks so much mark!

[Mark Rippetoe]

The problem is the sumo. But I don't really understand why you started using it, because the vast majority of the time a knee injury is not affected by conventional deadlifting due to the abbreviated ROM for the knees. Seems to me like sumo would be harder on a knee injury than conventional.

The problem with sumo is that it leaves out a lot of the back work that the deadlift is supposed to include. The sumo position gets the feet and knees out of the way so that a steeper back angle and a shorter bar path can be used. The steeper back angle reduces the load on the erectors by decreasing the distance between the bar and the hips, and because the nearer the back is to vertical the lower the torque. The sumo position allows these leverage improvements to be made while keeping the scapulae directly over the bar, the necessary configuration for pulling.

But the advantages of sumo also make it the wrong style for training, because you can't get as strong. In my day, the best sumo deadlifters only did sumo at the meet. This is probably your problem, and I would immediately switch back to conventional and stay there until you lift in a meet. Everything you have described indicates to me that your posterior chain is weak, and I'll bet that a squat video of you would show a quad-dominant squat style. So, if you get your deadlift fixed using conventional form and learn to use your hips to squat, good things will occur.

I'd go down to an easy weight and do 3 sets of 5 deadlifts for about 3 workouts, increasing 10-15 lbs. each time, and then go to our usual one heavy set of five, as described in the books.

[FROGGBUSTER]

thanks for answering mark. i'll start deadlifting conventional-style and ditch sumo.

here is a vid of my squat - is this a quad-dominant way of squatting like you said?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=q4vqzJBUR44

also, do you think i should do accessory exercises to build up my posterior chain along with switching to conventional style? i was thinking of hyperextensions and good mornings to further build up strength in my lower back.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It's not really too bad, just high, and gets higher at the end of the set. But because it's high, it's more quad than posterior. Get it deeper, change your deadlifts, and you should be fine.

[FROGGBUSTER]

alright i'll do all that, thanks a ton mark!