press and chins

[pamparius]

Hi Rip,

Would increasing my vertical pulling strength (weighted chins, pull-ups) help my press? And if so, how?

/Rob from Sweden

[Mark Rippetoe]

Chins and pullups heavily work the triceps, as well as all the other upper body muscles one way or another. The rotator cuff muscles and upper back are stabilizers for pressing, and lockout depends on stability. I actually get pec-sore doing high volume chins. If you cannot chin yourself a respectable number of times, you have a strength imbalance that should be addressed.

[Adas75]

What is regarded as a respectable number of chins?

Thanks
Adam

[Mark Rippetoe]

Well, I can do 16, and I'm 51 and I weigh 210. So you have to beat me or you're a pussy. And if you do beat me, you're probably using drugs.

See what questions like that get you?

[Baldr]

Well, I can do 16, and I'm 51 and I weigh 210. So you have to beat me or you're a pussy. And if you do beat me, you're probably using drugs.

See what questions like that get you?

LOL!

Mark, this is kind of an off-topic question, but do you ever see yourself giving up the iron? Assuming no injuries are acquired, is there any physical or health reason to not lift weights when one reaches his 70's or older?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Tommy Suggs came in my gym last year, 9 months after two total knees, and squatted 275 x 5. He was 70. And he's stronger now.

I'll train until I cannot train.

[Tiburon]

I'll train until I cannot train.

Great quote. Great thread.

[Corey]

Hi Mark,

What do you mean by total knees? Replacements? What was the cause of the bad knees if you don't mind me asking?

16 consecutive chins is not too shabby at all. I would imagine those are the strict dead hang kind. Do you practice kipping chins/pullups?

Just received your new book. Thanks to you and Lon for writing it!

[Mark Rippetoe]

Total knee replacements are often made necessary by not having sat around on your ass for, in this case, 70 years. They are indicated when the menisci are bad enough that it affects quality of life.

My chin-ups are dead hang, not kipped. I do them kipped when I am using them for met/con, strict when I am using them for upper-body strength.

Thanks for the kind words about the book.

[PMDL]

Mark would you consider volume on chins to be more important than limit strength?

For me the weighted chin/pullup was something I tended to treat as a lift in itself, and still do most of the year.

The trade-off on that is while I've been borderline freaky-strong when it comes to reps in the 1-3 range, I suck when it comes to total volume (be it higher reps or higher accumulated volume in a session). Even when I devote work specifically to it, it just doesn't seem to respond.

For somebody that could crank out a few decent reps in the +90 range at a body weight in the 200-210 range, I could max at maybe 10-12 chins in a set. And that would be the only set.

But I notice this in general when it comes to pulling exercises, be it the barbell row, deadlift, what have you, so I never considered it abnormal.

[Blade]

My experience is that low-rep work potentiates BW chins, but only if you still have BW chins in your routine - on a separate day (heavy/light) or as a finisher (e.g. 3 x 3 + 1 set max reps).

[Mark Rippetoe]

It seems to me that weighted chins and high-rep capacity respond separately. I just got 17 a couple of nights ago, but I know I can't do more than about 65 lbs. for a single. As far as which is better, I suppose that, as usual, it would depend on what you're using them for. I have found that chin-up work improves the press when chinning strength is poor. Since chins are such a good upper body assistance exercise, I would speculate that weighted chins would help improve a press in the same way, by very effectively strengthening the supporting parts of the kinetic chain. This would make a good project for a hungry young CF Totaler.