Max monthly LBM gain?

[LCN]

I'm not trying to stir up shit, honest, but I noticed that Lyle McDonald argues that 2 pounds a month LBM gain is pretty much the maximum possible. (With rare exceptions like someone seriously underweight.) This is without drugs.

Do you agree with that? My impression from doing SS myself and from various other people I know who have done it is that one can do a lot better than this (of course the more untrained you are the easier it is).

I would of thought a truly untrained young male would have no problem putting on say 10 pounds in the first month, about 50/50 between fat and LBM.

Am I just wrong?

[Mark Rippetoe]

We have a kid that has recently gained 48 pounds in 10 weeks. Squat has gone from 145 x 5 to 310 x 5 x 3. If Lyle said this, and if you're not taking it out of context, then Lyle is wrong. Certainly if he's talking about novice lifters. Sorry.

[nisora33]

He's taken it out of context.

Lyle said there are exceptions to the 2-lb. limit: adolescents, whose hormonal milieu is such that training them is like training someone on steroids, and underweight novices. And he says the gains, of course, taper eventually even for these two categories of trainee. So I don't see any contradictions between what either Rip or Lyle has said.

Stacey

[Corey]

Mark,

Is the student you are referring to Zach? The young guy you were talking about during the ironradio interview?

I'd be interested to see before and after photos...that is tremendous gains!

[matclone]

I assume LBM = lean body mass, as I've seen several discussions on the Strength Mill forums, and here, using this same acronym. Whenever I see LBM, I wonder if I've accidentally stumbled upon a bodybuilding forum, because it seems to be this is bodybuilding talk, and a bodybuilding concept (similar to training "body parts").

Unless I’ve missed something (a possibility), the idea behind Starting Strength is to get stronger. Increasing lean body weight is not part of the concept or the formula. Besides, practically speaking, from what I know, it’s not easy or inexpensive to get an accurate measurement of one’s lean body weight, and doing this on a monthly basis (as the product purveyors would lead you to believe they’re doing) seems silly. Why? So you can tell your buddies you gained 1.78 pounds of “lean body mass” last month, or 10.68 pounds in the last six months? Should we be impressed?

[Alyion]

I've never understood this. Your telling me a 5 foot novice and 6 feet novice can only build .5lbs of muscle a week when working every major muscle in their body 3x a week?

Its only the skinny weak guys who spout this like this all the time, terrified of losing their abs yet wanting to get strong and they always end up staying in some yo-yo limbo

[metermanja]

Dear Mr Rippetoe,

Firstly thanks for your wonderful book and illustrative DVD, both of which have rewritten my workout. I hope to attend your coaches training seminar too and take the learning to where i am from. (where the government takes our beer away and stops us from owning firearms, sadly)
Now, i have followed this forum for a few days now and seems like even the skiniest of kids have a "pre-training" squat of close to 150lb. I am embarrased to say that my squat started off at 95 lb.Now after a few weeks, i have worked my way upto 175 lb x 3 reps x 5 sets. I eat a lot of fruit and veggies and a half gallon of milk a day. I have put on around 6 lb in the last few weeks and now stand at 184 lb. I am 5'9" .

Question 1 - Are these rather poor squat statistics normal or am i doing something wrong.

Question 2 - My knee used to click and pop often, but strangely feels allright when i am under the bar and feels better after i have done my sets. Is this some kind of treatment that i unknowingly ran into?

Thanks for the time you take to answer questions on ths forum.

[JLascek]

For anyone interested, I am going to start asking for your PR's in bodyweight and strength gains on 70sbig.com.

If we compile enough of of this data, then people will have plenty of examples of what you can accomplish with the linear progression and food.

[Mark Rippetoe]

... have followed this forum for a few days now and seems like even the skinniest of kids have a "pre-training" squat of close to 150lb. I am embarrassed to say that my squat started off at 95 lb.Now after a few weeks, i have worked my way up to 175 lb x 3 reps x 5 sets. I eat a lot of fruit and veggies and a half gallon of milk a day. I have put on around 6 lb in the last few weeks and now stand at 184 lb. I am 5'9" .

Question 1 - Are these rather poor squat statistics normal or am i doing something wrong.

Question 2 - My knee used to click and pop often, but strangely feels alright when i am under the bar and feels better after i have done my sets. Is this some kind of treatment that i unknowingly ran into?

1. Yes, these are below-average numbers, but you seem to be improving. Eat more protein.

2. You have discovered the truth about squats.

[LarsM]

Unless I’ve missed something (a possibility), the idea behind Starting Strength is to get stronger. Increasing lean body weight is not part of the concept or the formula. Besides, practically speaking, from what I know, it’s not easy or inexpensive to get an accurate measurement of one’s lean body weight, and doing this on a monthly basis (as the product purveyors would lead you to believe they’re doing) seems silly. Why? So you can tell your buddies you gained 1.78 pounds of “lean body mass” last month, or 10.68 pounds in the last six months? Should we be impressed?

I'd like to see your theory on how strength is increased without an increase in LBM accompanying it. You're also quite delusional if you think this is 100% irrelevant for a large portion of the target audience of SS.