Shane Hamman

[Aslin]

I looked up the Rezazadah front-squat video mentioned in the interview, dead lord...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSN3...eature=related

Thanks, I've been trying to get his name right for ages....

[stl rick]

Is there a reason the USA Olympic Training Center has become enamored with technique over strength training?

[lorihultman]

The main criticism of the OTC from folks in the weightlifting community has been that they focus TOO MUCH on strength. They squat and pull, squat and pull, squat and pull. Almost everyone who goes there gets much stronger on the squat. Several of the American lifters from past Olympic teams could front squat or back squat right up there with the guys on the medal stand. A while back there was a 94kg guy there who had his RDL up to 320kg for sets of 5!!!

The problem has been, while they are focusing so much on getting stronger, and the squats are going up, the competitive lifts arent moving. This is what the main problem has been, and why many have wished that the OTC would employ a more "European" approach, that is, work harder on the snatch and clean and jerk, and less on the squats and pulls.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Do you consider Shane Hamman to be a member of the Olympic Weightlifting Community? How about Kyle Pierce, Lon Kilgore, Mike Burgener, Bill Starr, Tommy Suggs, Trey Goodwin, Josh Wells, and several other people -- both recently involved and with decades of experience -- who agree that our lifters are not strong enough?

And who is the 94 who RDLed the 320?

[lorihultman]

Do you consider Shane Hamman to be a member of the Olympic Weightlifting Community? How about Kyle Pierce, Lon Kilgore, Mike Burgener, Bill Starr, Tommy Suggs, Trey Goodwin, Josh Wells, and several other people -- both recently involved and with decades of experience -- who agree that our lifters are not strong enough?

And who is the 94 who RDLed the 320?

I consider Shane Hamman a member and a friend. I consider Kyle a member and an aquaintance. Lon is a member of the community, although I am not sure that he has had much, or any, contact with elite or even high level athletes in the past decade or so, I might be wrong. Lon is good people though.I like Burgener, although I dont know him all that well.

Josh Wells is a lifter who made the Junior World team training under Glenn Pendlay, but since parting with him has evidently gained a bunch of bodyweight, gotten his squat way up, but failed to ever equal the lifts he did as a lighter lifter since adopting a "get stronger" attitude.

Trey Goodwin is another lifter that made the Junior world team training under Glenn Pendlay, who has made off and on attempts at starting training again, but has not achieved the same results as he did when training under Glenn. He did go to the collegiate nationals a couple of years ago, again training under Glenn at the time, and barely lost an American record snatch behind him.

Trey has also publicly stated that the worst thing he ever did was leave Glenn for the Olympic training center, and that he should have stayed with Glenn. He stated, and I think this is a direct quote " That was the worst decision I ever made".

So, whats your point??? Josh and Trey are guys trained by a fellow who happens to believe in doing the snatch and clean and jerk heavy and often, and working hard on the squat. Lon is a former champion who, to my knowledge, hasnt been directly involved in the training of any top lifter in recent memory. Kyle is a great guy who bases his training off of Mike Stone stuff, as they are friends. Not that different really from a program that Glenn Pendlay put up on the old MWSU site.... which was also an adaptation of Mike Stone work. But, Kyle, like Lon, is good people. Shane is a former athlete, who didnt win. He was maybe the 2nd strongest US superheavy ever (third if you want to count paul anderson) but like mark henry he couldnt beat all the competitors who were weaker than he was. Yes, Rezezadah might have been a stronger squatter than him, but i doubt any of the other guys that beat him were.

And I wont even mention Bill Starr or Suggs. I respect them both a ton, and wont stoop to comment again on things they said that I think are based on faulty information. Whoever is feeding them the things that make then, particularly Starr, say what they are saying, deserves a slap in the face. And then another

So again, whats your point? And, will you have the balls to put this post up? I am new here, and the more I read, the more I doubt this will go up. But I am open to being wrong, and hope I am.

And by the way, ask Mike B. about his lifter with the huge RDL. I cant remember the name. But it seems to me that he was ex-military, not absolutely sure about that but pretty sure... and he told me he did a 320kg RDL. He might have been hitting on me at the time, lol, but other guys that trained with him backed him up. So although i didnt see it, i have to believe it. and i am 99% sure that he came from Mike B.

I am betting that if you talk to Mike you can figure out who I am talking about. He was a nice guy, and strong as shit. Had a couple of tats if i remember right also. Shortish brown hair if that helps. also had a nice smile!

[Mark Rippetoe]

Lori, darling, neither you nor anybody else that wasn't present in Wichita Falls knows a goddamn thing about what happened there --who did what numbers, who coached whom, who did what with whom, when, why or how. I'm not going to go into it on this or any other forum, because it's none of anybody's business that we don't choose to make it. So I'd advise you to refrain from expressing your own uninformed opinions within the same post you use to impugn the name of a coach that has forgotten more about this sport than you'll ever have a chance to learn.

If you want to pretend that Olympic weightlifting is not really a strength sport, then that's fine. It comports well with the system that produced a 28th placing in the Worlds in 2007. I suppose all the teams that beat us --maybe even Rigert, huh? -- were taking steroids for technique.

As far as who has been "feeding" Starr and Tommy this false information, again assuming they need to be fed and that I'm the only spoon, that would probably be me. If you want to slap me, you know where I am. And I have a call into Mike. The lifter you mean is Shankle, Mike's lifter. There is no American Olympic lifter recently or currently capable of a 320 x 5 RDL unless it's Mendes or possibly Kendrick on a day when he's way out of weight class. Or maybe a powerlifter that decided to try the lift. I'll pay $100 for the video that proves me wrong.

[Lon Kilgore]

In response to Lori:

My participation in the weightlifting community has been directed, by design, at developing coaches like Glenn Pendlay and Brandon Ezzell, working in the lab on strength issues, and disseminating authentic evidence based training information for the past decade. I do not coach individuals anymore, I do not have time.

The last guy I dealt with directly as coach that went to the OTC was Matt Thompson, I identified him as a STRONG & POWERFUL athlete and worked initially on developing technique (conversion from throwing). When I went to Texas and he went to the OTC he was capable of squatting 300kg for 5's, power cleaning 185, and jerking 200. They never let him squat over 250 at the OTC. After training at the OTC for 2 years, and weighing more than 20 kg more than when he arrived, he jerked 205. Focusing on technique did not produce progress.

Pete Kelley told me in a discussion specifically on this topic two weeks ago in NYC, that Dragomir did not focus on strength on most of the residents since he considered them to be "strong enough". One wonders what Wes Barnett would have been capable of if he had spent more time getting stronger.

[Paul Sousa]

And, will you have the balls to put this post up? I am new here, and the more I read, the more I doubt this will go up. But I am open to being wrong, and hope I am.

I think you are confusing this with the CF forum.

[lorihultman]

Lori, darling, neither you nor anybody else that wasn't present in Wichita Falls knows a goddamn thing about what happened there --who did what numbers, who coached whom, who did what with whom, when, why or how.

Are you going to claim that Glenn Pendlay was not the coach of Josh or Trey... or maybe even that you coached them? I hope not. Wasnt the situation of certain coaches taking "credit" for lifters they didnt really coach one of the issues that prompted you to go to that BOG meeting a few years back and put in your vote to throw the bums out?

If you want to pretend that Olympic weightlifting is not really a strength sport, then that's fine. It comports well with the system that produced a 28th placing in the Worlds in 2007. I suppose all the teams that beat us --maybe even Rigert, huh? -- were taking steroids for technique.

No one is claiming, or has claimed that Olympic lifting isn't a strength sport... but, its easy to knock those straw men down, isnt it? It is a strength sport, specifically concerning how strong you are in the snatch and clean and jerk. Powerlifting is where you compete on the squat and deadlift, and oh yeah bench press

And I have a call into Mike. The lifter you mean is Shankle, Mike's lifter.

Really, Shankle is Mike's lifter? Shankles situation, according to Donny Shankle Himself, is as follows. He trained in Mikes gym for 3-4 months, usually doing his own thing. He admits he was pretty uncoachable. Then he moved to Wichita Falls, Texas to be coached by Glenn Pendlay, where he remained for almost 3 years, this time period culminated in him doing a 165kg snatch, a 201kg clean and jerk, making the Pan Am team, and beating the defending world champion Klockov at the 2006 Arnold Championships. He then moved to the OTC to become a resident athlete, which started a rather turmoil filled time, involving him moving around quite a bit, but ultimately ending up with Glenns encouragement in going to California to train under Ivan Abajeev, who was at the time coaching in northern California. It is I think important to note that during all the moving around and the turmoil, he always listed Glenn as his coach, and Glenn has been back coaching him in the gym on a day to day basis for roughly the past year, and Donny has done a 172.5kg snatch and a 210kg clean and jerk recently in training.

So doesnt it seem rather odd to label Donny as Mike's lifter? Almost as odd as taking exception to the naming of Josh Wells and Trey Goodwins coach...

In response to Lori:

My participation in the weightlifting community has been directed, by design, at developing coaches like Glenn Pendlay and Brandon Ezzell, working in the lab on strength issues, and disseminating authentic evidence based training information for the past decade. I do not coach individuals anymore, I do not have time.

The last guy I dealt with directly as coach that went to the OTC was Matt Thompson, I identified him as a STRONG & POWERFUL athlete and worked initially on developing technique (conversion from throwing). When I went to Texas and he went to the OTC he was capable of squatting 300kg for 5's, power cleaning 185, and jerking 200. They never let him squat over 250 at the OTC. After training at the OTC for 2 years, and weighing more than 20 kg more than when he arrived, he jerked 205. Focusing on technique did not produce progress.

Pete Kelley told me in a discussion specifically on this topic two weeks ago in NYC, that Dragomir did not focus on strength on most of the residents since he considered them to be "strong enough". One wonders what Wes Barnett would have been capable of if he had spent more time getting stronger.

Dr. Kilgore,

I wanted to make it clear that my comments regarding your involvement in Olympic weightlifting were meant in no way to be derogatory. I have never heard a bad thing said about you by anyone, and have absolutely nothing bad to say myself. It seems we might disagree on a few things regarding traiining, but then again if given the chance to talk we might not. Either way, as far as I know or am concerned, your a good guy. I have enjoyed reading some of the studies that have come out of MWSU during your time there, and think your artwork in the "Killistator" (did i get that right?) website is fantastic. Good job on identifying Thompson and getting him started. He certainly had more potential than was realized. I dont know if you ever talk to him anymore, but I talked to him a couple of months ago, and hope that if you dont keep up with him you will be glad to know that although he is pretty skinny now, he is married and doing well in life. And skinny is not a crime... not that bad a crime, at least!

[Mark Rippetoe]

Lori, my love, as much as you know about all of the stuff that happened in WF, it's almost as though you were there. At any rate, you seem to be much more knowledgeable than I, so from this point on I'll defer to your judgement. My sincerest apologies if I got anything wrong about the sport you love.