Coming from Crossfit: SS or TM

[slowjoe]

Hi Coach,

I'm 41, 6ft/220-ish pounds. I've been kinda-Crossfiting, kinda-CFSB-ing for three years. I'm thinking about trying a "proper" strength program. I own SS and PP, but I read them a couple of years ago. (I should say that both were money well spent. Thank you for writing them.) And I PROMISE I tried to use the search function before I typed this.

Currently, I'm lifting as follows:
D/L 407x5 / 462x1
B/S: 330x5 / 374x1
BP: 225x5
SP: 148.5x3
PC: 155x5 (pretty) 200x3 (ugly)

Should I be looking at SS or TM? And, never having done sets across, how much should I be thinking of backing off from my current PBs when I adopt higher volume?

[Mark Rippetoe]

These numbers would indicate that a short linear progression would be followed by TM. Short, meaning that you will probably get stuck in a few weeks. You might just as well start with SQ 315 x 5 x 3/DL 365 x 5 and go up from there. You will probably stay linear on the bench and the "shoulder" press quite a bit longer. The clean will need some coaching.

[slowjoe]

These numbers would indicate that a short linear progression would be followed by TM. Short, meaning that you will probably get stuck in a few weeks. You might just as well start with SQ 315 x 5 x 3/DL 365 x 5 and go up from there. You will probably stay linear on the bench and the "shoulder" press quite a bit longer. The clean will need some coaching.

Many thanks, Rip.

I lifted tonight at 286x5x3 for sq, and 200x5x3 for BP (plus 2 sets of pullups to exhaustion, since I hit the DL 407x5 on Monday, before I decided to try one of your programs.) What increments would you recommend I use for linear? Perhaps I'm being excessively careful, but I'm inclined to try 5kg on the squat, and 2.5kg on the presses and deadlift.

Also, looking at the numbers you suggest, you're recommending backing off 15lbs from 5RM on squat, and 40lbs from 5RM on DL.

To give something back, I picked up a pointer on the Crossfit Journal re: form on the O-lifts which might be worth posting. An Olympian coach working for Eleiko suggested increasing the weight lifted until form first changes, then backing off, except for the last set, which can be as heavy as the lifter likes. Sounded like good sense to me.

[Mark Rippetoe]

If you're backing off that much, you could jump 10 lbs for two workouts on the squat, but 5 will be more productive in the long term. Smaller jumps on the BP/Press.

[slowjoe]

These numbers would indicate that a short linear progression would be followed by TM. Short, meaning that you will probably get stuck in a few weeks. You might just as well start with SQ 315 x 5 x 3/DL 365 x 5 and go up from there. You will probably stay linear on the bench and the "shoulder" press quite a bit longer. The clean will need some coaching.

I'm confused about the deadlift training you are recommending, particularly in the light of the warnings of how taxing frequent a heavy deadlift workout is.

Just to be clear, you are recommending backing off the D/L 40lbs from my 5RM. I've just realised that I don't know which program it applies to. I've reread, and there are actually a number of them:

1. SS pg 289 (D/L and PC every second workout)
2. SS pg 300 (D/L w/o 1,5, PC w/o 3,7) "Onus Wunster"
3. PP pg 155 (D/L every week in cycle with chinups and pullups) "The Starting Strength Model"
4. PP pg 162-3 (D/L every 2 weeks)

With the deadlift frequency warming in mind, I am looking at either option 4 or a modified option 3 with a four workout cycle of deadlift/chinups/cleans/pullups. Hopefully this isn't quite enough modifying for a "YNDTP" badge. However, option 4 and 10lbs steps would mean that I'd not hit a PB for 8 weeks.

Also, what steps do you recommend with deadlifts?

Sorry for all the stupid questions!

[Mark Rippetoe]

Your option #3 would be the best use of training time and follow the intention of the backoff best. What do you mean by "steps"?

[slowjoe]

Your option #3 would be the best use of training time and follow the intention of the backoff best. What do you mean by "steps"?

Steps means weight increases.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You want me to tell you how to load your bar for your deadlift workout? Have you not learned this on the way up to a 462 DL? It's kinda in the book.

[slowjoe]

Ah, sorry Rip.

What I meant was increases in work sets from deadlift workout to deadlift workout. Going back down to 165/360 has surprised me, and got me questioning myself a bit.

It was the book that got me to 462, thanks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

At this level, 10 lbs on the deadlift per workout.